Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
    
Whitewater, WI
 | | 06/21/2006 6:08 PM |
| Well I've revierwed what I know of the upcomiong set, trying to get a grip on must and must not play creatures. Looking for some input.
If spoilers are to be trusted, notably (considering Epic and normal versions as separate creatures):
5 Creatures that can paralyze
21 Creatures immune to paralyzation (dragon, elemental, undead) most of any set so far?
13 with DR5
13 Spellcasters
13 Dragon type hey what's up with the 13's!?
10 with Spell Resistance
12 Ranged Attackers
12 Huge
12 Large
29 Medium
9 Small
1 Tiny
12 Cone / Line / Radius (SA or spell)
15 Fliers
19 with Melee Reach Wow!
1 Conceal
1 Blind-Fight
0 Blindsight
So the Displacer Pack Lord's conceal is more effective than ever in limited play. Then we consider a caster with 2 Blur spells - blur Aspect of Bahamut! - that's powerful. Tons of elemental damagers and immunities, but also a lot of vulnerabilities to elements.
Likely Play:
Slaughterstone Eviscerator Epic (elem resist, 60 dmg potential, little guys will miss the AC29 a lot, fearless)
Displacer Pack Lord (Conceal 11, mega reach is almost like a short ranged attack)
Blue Barney (18 creatures in set subject to its Slayer, DR10, fearless)
Cadaver Collector (High damage output per cost)
Tordek (High attack rolls)
Meepo (cheap tech with a lot of reason to be around in this set)
Spellscale Sorcerer (Blur a couple of mega-beaters)
War Weaver (SS on the big guns)
Cleric of Syreth (LSoF and Command 5 for cheap, MW's)
Sorcerer on Black Dragon (in timed play with mounted swift cast, the 45 autofire damages followed by running away)
Do Not Play:
Whitespawn Hordling (unless synergy. everything hits it and it won't hit a thing)
Diseased Rat
Cleric of Loagzed
Wizened Elder Watcher
Bonded Fire Summoner
What's your list[?] What other general set considerations are there this time around[?]
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reference Thread, H/W List, Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 06/21/2006 6:18 PM |
| | Why do you say no on the diseased rat? Doesnt seem like a bad choice for some VP denial. | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
| | 06/21/2006 6:30 PM |
| I'll bite. Bear in mind that I'm terrible at sealed!
Must Play
Golden Protector
Meepo
Slaughterstone Eviscerator
Tordek
Griffon Cavalry (epic)
Purple Worm
Blackguard on Nightmare
Bluespawn Godslayer
Cadaver Collector
Dracolich
Eldritch Giant
Greenspawn Razorfiend
Large Fang Dragon
Mountain Troll
Ogre Skirmisher
Redspawn Firebelcher
Sorcerer on Black Dragon
Tundra Scout
Do Not Play
Clawfoot Rider
Griffon Cavalry (non-epic)
Storm Archer
Dread Warrior
Wererat Rogue
Poison Dusk Lizardfolk
Magma Hurler
Stirge
Twig Blight
Whitespawn Hordeling | |
My H/W list is not current...
Trade Reference List
OLD Trade references (191) | |
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Calicles
Sneak
51 Posts
| | 06/21/2006 6:50 PM |
| For what its worth, here is my initial list of "if you pull it, you must play it" figs:
Aspect of Bahumet
Golden Protector
Slaughterstone (both versions)
Tordek (both versions)
Blackguard on Nightmare (epic only)
Bluespawn Godslayer
Cadaver Collector
Displacer Beast Pack Lord (conceal 11 and 200hps !!! not likely to be eliminted in a timed match)
Sorcerer on Black Dragon
Tundra Scout
And for my "no way, i'd rather have an empty slot" figs:
Bonded Fire Summoner
Poison Duck Lizardfolk
Twig Blight
Whitespawn Hordeling
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Champion of Sehanine Moonbow | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/21/2006 6:58 PM |
| On the off-chance that you pull a huge fire elemental or a couple of summonables, the Bonded Summoner wouldn't be a bad pull. By himself though, he'd stink.
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/21/2006 7:05 PM |
| | Nice list! I'd add 1 with DR 10 to it as well. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3914 Posts
USA
| | 06/22/2006 7:29 AM |
| I'd play the Diseased Dire Rat.
Also, I'd add to my play list the Large Green Dragon.
Of course any Epic creature you get.
[^] | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 8:34 AM |
| I also think the DDR is playable in 500. If he denies your opponent one turn of victory points, that's 25 points. He pays for himself and then some.
I'm afraid of making a list because I know I'll jinx myself. There's no way I could pull either Aspect and not play it - beyond that, anything goes. | | | |
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Abennazer
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 8:37 AM |
| | I'm not sure about the Toundra Scout. He could go down fast with the fire damage from Fire Elemental, Magma Hurler, Redspawn and Sorcerer on Black Dragon. And the other Huge won't be affected by its pushback and strike in the air, or trample. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10429 Posts
United States
| | 06/22/2006 8:46 AM |
| I'm thinking even the non-epic Blackguard on Nightmare is playable in the Limited event. With the right pieces under command, they're roughly fearless and that could be a big difference. For the cost, in epic, I can imagine circumstances where it'll be worth it.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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hardinjmm
Sergeant
573 Posts
Madison, WI
| | 06/22/2006 10:22 AM |
| Unless you're Fenris, in which case you should not go near the Blackguard again. On another note, though, it is odd that nothing has Blindsight and only 1 creature has Blind-Fight, which makes Conceal especially nasty. It is interesting to me that they did this, after they made so many creatures with Blindsight/Blind-Fight in previous sets (notably Underdark).
Cheers,
Jon | | | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 12:23 PM |
| Must play: filler with autodamage of any sort
Must play: cleric of "OMG look at my AC skyrocket"
I am thinking that the Tundra Scout will be terrible. There will be a fair amount of fire damage to cook him, Strike in the Air does nothing against the Huges that everyone will be fielding, and Trample provokes attacks unless you sneak in a Mephling Pyromancer. Dracolich will also be terrible...you automatically lose to both Tiamat and Bahamut, and anyone who pulls one of them will play it. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 12:28 PM |
| | I just realized. Is there any dwarf commanders for the Slaughterstone to actually be played in this set? Or is there a ruling for that in Sealed you just need any old commander..? | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
"Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!"
Champion of the Frost Salamander | |
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2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 12:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by hardinjmm
Unless you're Fenris, in which case you should not go near the Blackguard again. On another note, though, it is odd that nothing has Blindsight and only 1 creature has Blind-Fight, which makes Conceal especially nasty. It is interesting to me that they did this, after they made so many creatures with Blindsight/Blind-Fight in previous sets (notably Underdark).
Cheers,
Jon
Heheh, I'm a slow learner, I'd probably play her again. She's Lucy (with football) to my Charlie Brown. [)]
Interesting indeed that there's only 1 creature with blindsight/fight in the set. I'm so used to considering conceal "worthless" in the current Marut-rich metagame that I had at first dismissed the Pack Lord.
Still, he's got level 10, 200hp, and no elemental resistances. In a set where breath weapons do 45 damage and have DCs in the low 20s. So, I'm not certain he's really great, though certainly playable. | |
Read my championship tournament report.
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 1:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Aravis
I just realized. Is there any dwarf commanders for the Slaughterstone to actually be played in this set? Or is there a ruling for that in Sealed you just need any old commander..?
Only one Dwarf, and he's not a commander. I'm paraphrasing the rules here, but if you have a Requires [CREATURE] and don't field the required creature, you can designate ANY other creature as the required one. So feel free to tie a Slaughterstone to a Cadaver Collector! | | | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 06/22/2006 1:14 PM |
| | And if you pull a Slaughterstone Eviscerator, you may want to play the epic version of it, which does not require a commander. | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 1:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Orion72
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis
I just realized. Is there any dwarf commanders for the Slaughterstone to actually be played in this set? Or is there a ruling for that in Sealed you just need any old commander..?
Only one Dwarf, and he's not a commander. I'm paraphrasing the rules here, but if you have a Requires [CREATURE] and don't field the required creature, you can designate ANY other creature as the required one. So feel free to tie a Slaughterstone to a Cadaver Collector!
I was under the impression that it was other commanders not just any creature.
Anyway my "Must Field" pieces are all the Huges and some of the larges and a few of the mediums. The rest is filler.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 2:02 PM |
| I know you're all dying to hear my opinions...[)]
Must Play
Cleric of Syreth
Tordek, Dwarf Champion
Golden Protector
War Weaver
Bonded Fire Summoner
Small Copper Dragon
Cadaver Collector
Cloudreaver
Magma Hurler
Won't Play
Dragonborn Fighter
Goliath Cleric of Kavaki ([xx(])
Griffon Cavalry
Wizened Elder Watcher
Witchknife
Cleric of Laogzed
Whitespawn Hordeling
I'm still mad about that Goliath Cleric! [:(!]
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Check out my DDM Blog: http://scifirules.livejournal.com
"I will pay my dues when you send me my tusks!" -Strong Bad
Champion of Chainmail Equivalencies | Knight of Efficient Fodder
WotDQ Called Shot: Large Green Dragon (VINDICATED) | Blood War Called Shot: Large Brass Dragon | Unhallowed Called Shot: Skeletal Troll
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grifter100
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 2:26 PM |
| MUST play: Diseased Dire Rat
´nuff said!
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 06/22/2006 3:03 PM |
| Ill play just about everything because of the limitation with the exception of these:
Wizened Elder Watcher
Griffon Cavalry (Non-Epic) Epic is a must!
Goliath Cleric of Kavaki
Dread Warrior
Whitespawn Hordeling | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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Chairman7w
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 06/22/2006 4:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Calicles
Poison Duck Lizardfolk
LOL at Calicles! [:p] [:p] [:p]
Tiamet & Bahamet are my list. | |
Dr. Simon: A phrase that's encoded in her brain, that makes her fall asleep. If I speak the words, "Eta...
Jayne: Well don't say it!
Zoë: It only works on her, Jayne. | |
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XAos
Underboss
2395 Posts
London
| | 06/23/2006 5:12 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
Displacer Pack Lord (Conceal 11, mega reach is almost like a short ranged attack)
Diseased Rat
Bonded Fire Summoner
I agree with everything on your list except the above 3.
Displacer pack lord. Even with the conceal:11 in a sealed game it's still too expensive.
Bonded fire summoner; Depends on what else you draw. If your draws leave you no choice but to play a huge fire elemental, then the bonded summoner (with nothing to summon) may still be a good support unit.
The rat probably dies in 1 turn of combat (yes I mean "turn") but if you time it's movement correctly. That costs your opponent 25 VP's for the loss of a 14 point rat.[:D]
It will be marginal in a 200 point game (and poor in a 100 point game)
I'd add to the toplay list;
Griffon cavelry (100 damage on a single charge, ouch)
Blackguard on Nightmare.
Redspawn firebelcher
Huge Fiendish Spider it's better than most of the Huge figures you might randomly get and you are certain to have one at least one. Indeed with average luck I expect that for 25% of the players in a sealed tournament this will be their best fgure. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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ahmish
Sneak
58 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 2:33 PM |
| For the release events everyone gets a Huge Fiendish Spider promo (gorgeous repaint BTW.) Since this promo is playable at the pre-release, what are everyone's thoughts on including it in a band?
Stats
142 points Level 8 S6 AC 20 180 HP
Melee Attack +20 for 30+ virulent Poison (DC20)
Smite poisoned foe +10 Unlimited uses
resist 10 fire and cold
DR 5
MR 2
Wall Walker
Web (Replace Attacks R6 Entagle dc16)
So, do you autoplay it? Do you play it only if you are in dire need of getting to 500? Do you set it next to your map as a good luck charm? [:)] | |
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kingnanu
Warrior
214 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 5:03 PM |
| Aspects!! Aspects!! Aspects!! Aspect!!
Oh and a Bluespawn would be nice so I can beat YOUR aspect. | |
Called shot for blood war: Leonal | |
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kingnanu
Warrior
214 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 5:05 PM |
| quote:
So, do you autoplay it? Do you play it only if you are in dire need of getting to 500? Do you set it next to your map as a good luck charm?
Well if I don't play it I would definitely use it as a Good Luck Charm.[:D] | |
Called shot for blood war: Leonal | |
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Hemlocke
Skirmisher
14 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 5:45 PM |
| | after reading the discussion thread here I wonder why people seem down on the DBPL...it is cheaper than the HFDS, has very good conceal, and melee reach 4 with 200 hps...you could get 2 titans in your band at least and if they have to swat at 2 DBPLs or you use the HFDS to web a titan down the DBPL can then "whip it good" from the saftey of 4 spaces away. Is it a great piece? not totally but in a sealed tournament like the pre-release it could be decisive. not Bahaumat decisive but still better than the dracolich most likely. | |
Champion of the Epic Aspect of Nerull | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 9:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Hemlocke
after reading the discussion thread here I wonder why people seem down on the DBPL...it is cheaper than the HFDS, has very good conceal, and melee reach 4 with 200 hps...you could get 2 titans in your band at least and if they have to swat at 2 DBPLs or you use the HFDS to web a titan down the DBPL can then "whip it good" from the saftey of 4 spaces away. Is it a great piece? not totally but in a sealed tournament like the pre-release it could be decisive. not Bahaumat decisive but still better than the dracolich most likely.
ARGH! All the acronyms hurt my little brain. | |
Champion of Neogi
Completed Trades/Transactions: sttmxn, Krush, jgsugden, Ayrychx2, Venport, Tysac
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 9:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Feathers
ARGH! All the acronyms hurt my little brain.
Agreed. if you're gonna use acronyms, define em first. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 9:55 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Richard II
quote:
Originally posted by Feathers
ARGH! All the acronyms hurt my little brain.
Agreed. if you're gonna use acronyms, define em first.
No doubt im still trying to figure out what a HFDS is.... | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
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Hemlocke
Skirmisher
14 Posts
| | 06/24/2006 12:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kithmaker
I -think- it might be "Huge Fiendish [Dire] Spider" even though the creature's name doesn't actually include the word "Dire."
Sorry all...I guess I've been lurking around some of the other boards here too much and gotten used to reading all the acronyms.
DBPL = Displacer Beast Pack Lord
HFDS = Huge Fiendish [sorta Dire] Spider
My bad on that. | |
Champion of the Epic Aspect of Nerull | |
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cerberuspuppy
Warrior
288 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 10:57 PM |
| Must Play:
Aspects (Titans are usually good in sealed)
Meepo (lots of BW to nerf, decent for cost)
Tordek (maybe even Regular if the points are tight)
War Weaver
Griffon Cav (Epic)
Spellscale
Blackguard on Nightmare
Cadaver Collector
Diseased Dire Rat
Barneyspawn
DBPL
Large Green Dragon
Mountain Troll
Ogre Skirmisher
Sorcerer on Black Dragon
Wow, a quarter of the set that I'll go out of my way to use at the prerelease.
Do Not Play:
Bonded Fire Summoner (unless I also pull the HFE and have no other commander)
Goliath Cleric
Wizened Elder
Doom Fist Monk
Eldritch Giant (unless I also pull the Blackguard)
Cleric of Lagzed
Magma Hurler
Blackspawn & Whitespawn
Tundra Scout (fun, but will get meta'ed to death)
Only 10, not so bad I guess.
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Mine is an evil laugh! Muhahahaha!
-Wash, Firefly | |
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isamu
Skirmisher
7 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 11:02 AM |
| Must plays:
Aspects
cleric of syreth
meepo
war weaver
griffon cav (epic)
purple worm
blackgaurd on nightmare (non-epic)
bluespawn godslayer
cadaver collector
displacer beast packlord
large green dragon
sorceror on black dragon
tordek (either)
mountain troll
redspawn firebelcher
hunting hyena (25 vp on turn 1 for 5 points)
not plays:
wizened elder watcher
cleric of laogzed
bonded fire summoner
goliath cleric of kavaki
dragonborn fighter
yaun-ti sorceror
This looks like a really solid set for sealed. | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 06/27/2006 1:05 PM |
| | I disagree with the Yuan-Ti Sorcerer being a not play. There is quite a bit of poison in this set and everyone will have the option of using a Huge Spider so her commander effect can be quite useful. Plus she may very well be your only commander so then she would almost have to be used in that case. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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Mad Poet
Skirmisher
26 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 1:18 PM |
| | Any chance someone (with more time than I) would care to tally must plays and do not plays from this thread? | |
Life is round.
Champion of Aspect of Silvanus and Epic Druids | |
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Jesster
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 4:54 PM |
| Something you may want to consider if you're contemplating running the Displacer Pack Lord in the Prerelease.
Probably the most cost effective uncommon huge in the set is the Bluespawn Godslayer. If I had to pick one piece in this set that I'd be most likely to face at least once in the prerelease, it'd be him. He has DR10. That means the displacer beast only does 10 damage per swing to him. Also, there are only 2 pieces in this set capable of giving the Pack Lord magic damage: War Weaver (if you pull one, great but he's rare so the odds of pulling both him and the Pack Lord are slim) and the Wizened Elder Watcher (another rare, and one that's on most people's "don't play" list).
Conceal 11 and MR4 are both really nice, but I don't think they're enough to make up for the pathetic damage the pack lord does to anything with DR (especially Barney).
-=The Jesster: Gatchaba Goose=-
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 5:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Hemlocke
after reading the discussion thread here I wonder why people seem down on the DBPL...it is cheaper than the HFDS, has very good conceal, and melee reach 4 with 200 hps...you could get 2 titans in your band at least and if they have to swat at 2 DBPLs or you use the HFDS to web a titan down the DBPL can then "whip it good" from the saftey of 4 spaces away. Is it a great piece? not totally but in a sealed tournament like the pre-release it could be decisive. not Bahaumat decisive but still better than the dracolich most likely.
Die Acronyms, DIE!!!!!
[)] | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 6:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Jesster
Also, there are only 2 pieces in this set capable of giving the Pack Lord magic damage: War Weaver (if you pull one, great but he's rare so the odds of pulling both him and the Pack Lord are slim) and the Wizened Elder Watcher
And also the uncommon Cleric of Syreth. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Eiznoragad
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 06/27/2006 6:43 PM |
| | The Bluespawn and the Witchknife both came up big in the one test match I've played in. The Eldritch Giant looks pretty good too. Non-epic Blackguard also played well. | |
D&D Minis wednesdays at 6pm in Charlotte, NC at Underground Games. Sanctioned tournament third Sat. of every month. Dagaronzie on WotC Boards. | |
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Jesster
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 06/28/2006 4:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by Jesster
Also, there are only 2 pieces in this set capable of giving the Pack Lord magic damage: War Weaver (if you pull one, great but he's rare so the odds of pulling both him and the Pack Lord are slim) and the Wizened Elder Watcher
And also the uncommon Cleric of Syreth.
Yeah, just noticed that. Missed him the first time because I was looking at the spoilers on lemon butter and the Cleric of Syreth's spell block is the wrong color, so he got overlooked.
Anyway. I still think I would avoid playing the pack lord in a sealed event unless I had a way to give him magic damage.
-=The Jesster: Gatchaba Goose=-
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