lono
Sneak
61 Posts
    
 | | 06/25/2006 12:18 PM |
| what pieces would be considered almost competitive but lacking the right support piece to make them viable? for instance the village priest and champion of ellistrae both have excellent commander effects but need someone better to use them on, the mounted paladin needs something to solve his hp problem...
what are other "almost there" pieces and what would be the solution to their shortcomings? it might be a good way to speculate on what will be included in Blood War and Unhallowed. | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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lono
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 12:20 PM |
| | d'oh! sorry for the double post | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:46 PM |
| Before you go discounting the Village Priest as 'almost there', bear in mind that his CE works on Warforged BodyGUARDS. Add in his Bless spell and they go to +15/+10 on attacks... not a bad addition from a 21 point Commander.
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Before you go discounting the Village Priest as 'almost there', bear in mind that his CE works on Warforged BodyGUARDS. Add in his Bless spell and they go to +15/+10 on attacks... not a bad addition from a 21 point Commander.
Rob
What band would you build around this? | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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MightyEinherjar
Sergeant
387 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 3:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Before you go discounting the Village Priest as 'almost there', bear in mind that his CE works on Warforged BodyGUARDS. Add in his Bless spell and they go to +15/+10 on attacks... not a bad addition from a 21 point Commander.
Rob
I thought that didn't apply? That's like saying a CFX that helps something with "orc" in the name would benefit something like, say, a Spellscale Sorceror. | |
Champion of the Aspect of Tempus | |
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Ethandrul
Warrior
301 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 3:47 PM |
| | guy cleared this up- it does work- and champion of elistraees new best friend is epic griffon cavelry. | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 3:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MightyEinherjar
quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Before you go discounting the Village Priest as 'almost there', bear in mind that his CE works on Warforged BodyGUARDS. Add in his Bless spell and they go to +15/+10 on attacks... not a bad addition from a 21 point Commander.
Rob
I thought that didn't apply? That's like saying a CFX that helps something with "orc" in the name would benefit something like, say, a Spellscale Sorceror.
Bodyguard is a type of guard. Sorcerer is not a type of orc. Just like Half-Orc is a type of orc. And Greenspawn is a type of spawn in the new set. | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ruhk69
quote:
Originally posted by MightyEinherjar
quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Before you go discounting the Village Priest as 'almost there', bear in mind that his CE works on Warforged BodyGUARDS. Add in his Bless spell and they go to +15/+10 on attacks... not a bad addition from a 21 point Commander.
Rob
I thought that didn't apply? That's like saying a CFX that helps something with "orc" in the name would benefit something like, say, a Spellscale Sorceror.
Bodyguard is a type of guard. Sorcerer is not a type of orc. Just like Half-Orc is a type of orc. And Greenspawn is a type of spawn in the new set.
The rules just keep getting more and more obtuse it seems...
My number one choice for a figure that needs a little boost would have to be the beholder, I'm not sure what exactly would do the trick, but something is needed to make him work in 200pts, maybe a commander effect that gave a +2 boost to all rolls made my abberations or something like that. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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lono
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:24 PM |
| I know about the wf bodyguard trick; my qualifier warband was a vp, a wfbodyguard, 3 arcanix guards, aramil, a standardbearer, and a mounted paladin. we went 1-5. my victory was on a bye. it might be a hasty conclusion to decide based on that experience that the vp needs one more piece to be truly effective but mentally that's where I'm at right now.
most of the problem was with the player not the pieces. [)] | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/25/2006 4:52 PM |
| There are quite a few pieces that are a synergy away from usefulness. A couple months ago, no one considered the Young Master a viable tournament piece--today, he shows up, many times over, at qualifiers from sea to shining sea.
So, what you can look forward to, is occasional shifts in the meta thanks to such synergies. And, moreover, you can look forward to more and more pieces that are a future-synergy away from competitiveness. This helps keep the game interesting.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lono
I know about the wf bodyguard trick; my qualifier warband was a vp, a wfbodyguard, 3 arcanix guards, aramil, a standardbearer, and a mounted paladin. we went 1-5. my victory was on a bye. it might be a hasty conclusion to decide based on that experience that the vp needs one more piece to be truly effective but mentally that's where I'm at right now.
most of the problem was with the player not the pieces. [)]
I'd say the Mounted Paladin needs one more piece to be viable - a piece that gives him Melee Reach 2 or makes him cost 20 points less! The Village Priest is, imo, fairly competitive. I saw a lot of them at my qualifier. | |
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Daunte
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:46 PM |
| | Actually played an interesting band at a local game the other day. Village priest, 4x warforged bodyguard, couatl. If he won map init it was annoying cause he would bunch up in a little room, 2 square entrance but could have his BG's all adjacent. its like having one titan with way too many hit points and way too many swings. His downfall however was a meless reach 2 and whirlwind. As well as some AE. | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 11:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lono
what pieces would be considered almost competitive but lacking the right support piece to make them viable? for instance the village priest and champion of ellistrae both have excellent commander effects but need someone better to use them on, the mounted paladin needs something to solve his hp problem...
what are other "almost there" pieces and what would be the solution to their shortcomings? it might be a good way to speculate on what will be included in Blood War and Unhallowed.
Half-orc paladin: needs a good fearless or level 11+ 30-40 point beater that can be easily brought into LG--OR a cheap, effective morale boosting secondary unit. Meepo might be able to pull it off, but I don't think that will really work out.
Alusair: needs a follower with pounce, fly and good attack bonuses--preferably with good hit points and a good level too. I'm pretty sure the Dragonne would be that piece if it were in LG, and the golden protector may be that piece but it's too early to tell if the synergy can make up for its 60hp and level 7.
Inspired Lieutenant: A good psionic LE beater would do wonders for this piece. Right now, she's good but doesn't have the right followers to make her a good choice as opposed to Urthok, the Rakshasa, or the human blackguard.
Brass Samurai: Needs something along the line of Kord but slightly cheaper or Rikka but with a higher level.
Village Priest: is really there already... as a secondary commander. He's more than a little bit squishy to be a band's only commander--unless the band doesn't really need a commander in order to be effective. Darsen Chen went (I think) 4/3 at the recent Santa Clara qualifier with VP, 3x slayer of domiel, 2x arcanix guards, sacred watcher, timber wolf. When he played that in league the village priest would usually go down but the slayers were often able to pull out a win anyway and losing the priest's commander rating and cfx didn't make the slayers' automatic routes. I mention this band not because I think the slayer of domiel is the band to make the village priest competitive, but rather to illustrate the kind of miniature I think he would do well with: a fearless or high level titan or group of hitters who are still highly effective after the village priest is dead.
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lono
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 4:13 AM |
| what I want to make the mounted paladin effective is a 30-40 point support tech piece that would somehow enable him to survive when the enemy focuses on killing him... the best answer I have dreamed up is a hypothetical mounted knight based on the knight base class presented in PHBII... which is pretty much a MMORPG tank in pen and paper form... I visualize it as a something similiar to the orc wardrummer with different variations on the knight's command special ability which would allow it to shield an ally (not a bodyguard effect, more like an adjacent ally ac bonus) force opposing pieces to become singleminded and attack only it (unless they beat a DC), and block enemies who it hits with AOO (the knight has a defensive bulwark SA which functions in similiar fashion)
it's a crazy fantasy, I know... but so is believing that the mounted paladin will ever be competitive. | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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lono
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 10:25 AM |
| | bump | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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