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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
    
 | | 07/06/2006 1:56 PM |
| 103 - Cadaver Collector
90 - 2x Helmed Horror
6 - 2x Kobold Miner
199 - 5 Activations
Use the HH's to screen the CC till he can get into the fight.
The Miners are (you guess it) only there to gain victory areas. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
Called Shots: Unhallowed - Tomb Mote
Vindicated Called Shots: Blood Wars - Solar
Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, Wardrums 60/60, WotDQ 60/60 | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:09 PM |
| | What map? And I would consider something other than Kobold miners since they are random in their set-up and could get you nowhere. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by forkedmoon
What map? And I would consider something other than Kobold miners since they are random in their set-up and could get you nowhere.
I considered the Broken Demongate map, but I don't really have an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, any map is fine.
As for the miners, I couldn't think of anything better. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
Called Shots: Unhallowed - Tomb Mote
Vindicated Called Shots: Blood Wars - Solar
Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, Wardrums 60/60, WotDQ 60/60 | |
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:15 PM |
| | I was toying around with this idea myself. I'd suggest upgrading 1 Kobold to a Dire Rat since you've got 1 point left over. The Dire Rat would be for in case your Kobold misses his victory area. Having a total of 310 fearless hps to work through could be good. Plus against Titan builds you've got the HH who can go after fodder or annoying pieces like Aramil or Couatls. The question is is this a better build than using 2 Duergar Champs, Hob Sargent, and filler? Need to get my cases so I can playtest! | |
Champion of the Aspect of Damage
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by forkedmoon
What map? And I would consider something other than Kobold miners since they are random in their set-up and could get you nowhere.
I considered the Broken Demongate map, but I don't really have an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, any map is fine.
As for the miners, I couldn't think of anything better.
How about Drow Outpost? It seems perfect for this as you can use the CC to tie up the bridge and the HH to fly over the pits and do their business. | |
Champion of the Aspect of Damage
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:16 PM |
| | I'd go with a Miner and a Rat over two Miners. If the KM doesn't land where you want him, the Rat can still get there with Speed 8. Better yet, use a Rat and a War Skellie, and don't grab VAs until the CC has already started killing stuff. | | | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 07/06/2006 2:29 PM |
| | Free from commanders... who needs to rally??? we are fearless and die with one eyesight. | |
Knight of the Quori
Champion of King Kaius III of Karrnath
 Purple Knight of Venezuela
Venezuelan Site For D&D minis Calabozo Criollo Venezuela
Venezuelan Site for SW minis VeneMinis.com | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 07/06/2006 2:42 PM |
| 4 x HH
KS or DDM + wolf
would do better. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 07/06/2006 2:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain
4 x HH
KS or DDM + wolf
would do better.
That depends on what they are facing.
I like the CC, but it is a bear. It is very expensive, but it must have activation control to prevent creatures from ganging up on it.
It will *not* be a tier 1 dominant piece because of the frenzied berserker. Two frenzieds can eliminate the CC by themselves. The only way to protect it is to find a way to improve the AC... and that is not as easy as the 'corpse collecting' ability would make you think it is...
It may make an appearance in tier 1, and it can even beat frenzieds if the paralysis breath works out for it... but it will not dominate the same way that Marut/Couatl or Marut/Kord has... | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
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| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 2:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
It may make an appearance in tier 1, and it can even beat frenzieds if the paralysis breath works out for it... but it will not dominate the same way that Marut/Couatl or Marut/Kord has...
I have reached similar conclusions. It has similar problems against CE hitter warbands and githzerai monk quads. | |
I am not gone. | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 3:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Jerry_Damage01
quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by forkedmoon
What map? And I would consider something other than Kobold miners since they are random in their set-up and could get you nowhere.
I considered the Broken Demongate map, but I don't really have an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, any map is fine.
As for the miners, I couldn't think of anything better.
How about Drow Outpost? It seems perfect for this as you can use the CC to tie up the bridge and the HH to fly over the pits and do their business.
Why worry about maps? With an init that looses to the couatl, I'd worry more about learning to play the band on any map, rather then on whatever map suits it best. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 10:53 PM |
| | I am not sure if I like this band, but going without a commander is not as big an issue as many people make it out to be. Yes, you must be good with the band on a variety of maps, but you should also choose a map that you think really benifits the band. With the large number of bands that uses Couatl only, or low level commanders - like the HGB groups, you have a great chance of winning plenty of map choice rolls. | |
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 11:19 PM |
| | Map init is just a dice roll. I was running a Quad Horror for awhile and I won my map about half the time. I can go up to against a commander 4 or 5, but if I roll higher than them then I'd get my map. Commanderless warbands aren't that bad on inits and things either. But it does seem like a bigger deal when you lose a close initiative. | |
Champion of the Aspect of Damage
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 11:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Jerry_Damage01
Map init is just a dice roll. I was running a Quad Horror for awhile and I won my map about half the time. I can go up to against a commander 4 or 5, but if I roll higher than them then I'd get my map. Commanderless warbands aren't that bad on inits and things either. But it does seem like a bigger deal when you lose a close initiative.
Right, but even against a commander 5, you're only going to win 20% of initiatives, and against a commander seven you're totally screwed with only winning 10%. Sure this can be worked about, but it means sacrificing a lot of tactical flexibility. Granted, you gain another HP sink, but your ability to use said damage recepticle is IMHO, greatly dimished. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 07/08/2006 8:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
It may make an appearance in tier 1, and it can even beat frenzieds if the paralysis breath works out for it... but it will not dominate the same way that Marut/Couatl or Marut/Kord has...
I have reached similar conclusions. It has similar problems against CE hitter warbands and githzerai monk quads.
Quad hitter warbands (GAS, LE, CE), especially ones with a descent commander to win key initiatives and map choice, eat the CC for breakfast. The only prayer is failed Paralysis saves to knock down the number of hitters chyopping the CC to pieces.
[)]
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 07/08/2006 9:35 PM |
| Broken Demongate would be a very very bad map for this band. Against any kind of a mobile warband, a canny opponent could very easily limit you to only one or two attacks with the cadaver collector--in the entire game. (In fact, I did that just this week running triple death slaad against the cadaver collector--granted I won more initiatives than I might expect to do again, but the most he was likely to get out of his expected number of initiatives was one death slaad). The large amount of difficult terrain, the side walls that make it easy to run away, and the non-central victory areas all conspire against you.
There are a lot of maps that have promise for the cadaver collector depending upon what else is in the band--Dragon shrine offers elemental resistances (bad for horrors so not the map for this band) and sacred circles in the key engagement areas. Magma keep has a number of nice choke point, Queen Peregrine's tomb and Drow enclave are nice and open maps that enable you to bring a lot of forces to bear (especially important if you're using multiple large duergar) and Fane of Lloth offers a good combination of open space and protected victory areas.
quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by forkedmoon
What map? And I would consider something other than Kobold miners since they are random in their set-up and could get you nowhere.
I considered the Broken Demongate map, but I don't really have an opinion. As far as I'm concerned, any map is fine.
As for the miners, I couldn't think of anything better.
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 07/08/2006 10:09 PM |
| I bought two boosters on a whim today, deciding to build something on the spot with whatever I pulled. So, I ended up playing a commander-less CC band today, and thought I'd share my 1-2 day. I ran:
Cadaver Collector
Helmed Horror
Duergar Champ
Timber Wolf x2
Goblin Skirmisher x3
8 activations, 200 pts, using the Dungeon of Blood map.
First up was against a CE band using an Eye of Gruumsh, 2xOgre Skirmishers, a Redspawn Firebelcher, Wardrummer and 2xQuaggoths. I lost map and we played on Dragon Shrine, lost side and he planted his Wardrummer on the fire side, never to move again. The Ogres went down to the CC, one routing (my opponent amused himself by sticking his Ogre to the top of my CC. We both agreed that a dead Ogre would make for a pretty good shield, and should be more than a +1AC bonus), but eventually the Eye got in there and killed the CC after it planted 30 on the Firebelcher. After that though, everybody ganged up on the Eye and he ran like a little girl. I thought about it several times, but I never used the paralysis cone, as in many cases the almost-guaranteed 60 damage was situationally desirable.
Second was against grasshoff's WotW/2xDire Bear/Rikka band. I lost this one, essentially to a key initative. (I can console myself with the fact that a commander rating wouldn't have helped, as I rolled a 4, and my opponent a 14). In hindsight, I should have taken a chance with the paralysis cone, but chose instead to dish out 60 damage to a temporarily non-fearless bear (which made morale). It probably would have helped to paralyze at least one bear and minimize his damage output, even at the expense of my own, and I should have tried.
Last was against Dagni's standard Kord/Couatl/Bodyguard/CoDA band. Learning my lesson from the last game, I actually managed to get all four of those key pieces in the cone, but every one of them made the save. It's amazing the tactical flexibility this Kord band has, and Dagni was able to make the saves he needed and dish the damage he needed to win. I conceded after both the Duergar and CC ate it, though I had managed to take down the CoDA and bodyguard, something I don't normally get to do against that band.
Overall, I think the CC is pretty good, though I don't quite see it as great. It feels a little variable, in that you kind of need the cone to work, or else it gets hit back pretty hard. And you can't count on the AC bonuses, because if you're killing fodder, you're not doling out enough damage where it's needed.
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HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 07/10/2006 3:21 PM |
| | The Collector needs Snake's Swiftness. Much like neither Kord nor Marut would be much without it - it seems to me. But I guess SS isn't LE's flavor so far, is it? Maybe SS is coming for LE someday? | |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 07/10/2006 3:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ccolinh
The Collector needs Snake's Swiftness. Much like neither Kord nor Marut would be much without it - it seems to me. But I guess SS isn't LE's flavor so far, is it? Maybe SS is coming for LE someday?
Cadaver Collector couldn't benefit from Snake's Swiftness. It has SR: All. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
Called Shots: Unhallowed - Tomb Mote
Vindicated Called Shots: Blood Wars - Solar
Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, Wardrums 60/60, WotDQ 60/60 | |
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Nirbo
Skirmisher
42 Posts
| | 07/10/2006 8:26 PM |
| Cadaver Collector is rather interesting as an anti-Marut variant, I must say. Here's the build I'd go with:
Rakshasa
Cadaver Collector
Duergar Champion
23 pts for 5 weenies
Drow Outpost
So, with Rakshasa as commander stealing the Couatl's effect, the Cadaver Collector is doing 25 damage to the Marut's magic-weaponed 20... with two attacks per round, each. So, three hits to kill the Marut; five to kill both Bodyguard and Marut (remember, the bodyguard takes 30 per hit, killing it in two); while the Marut takes six hits to kill the Cadaver Collector. While the Marut will probably get one more attack in due to the versatility of SS, what seems like an even fight (going to the Marut due to superior AC, most likely), this doesn't take into account all the extra stuff that comes with the Rak & CC that doesn't with a Marut: potential extra attacks from Slapping Hand; Slide, which can be a save-or-die for a Marut; and, of course, the threat of the Paralysis cone, which screws up the tight formation that MCB requires. These effects are all dice-dependent, but it's also worth considering that Couatl, Marut, Bodyguard and the cheapest commander/magic weapon (CoYondalla) come in at 168 points vs. the CC and Rakshasa's 144... amusingly, the CC at 103 points can fit in another hitter to tip the balance, while the Marut at 74 points cannot.
Thoughts? I haven't tried this out rigorously, what are the experiences of those who have tried something similar? | |
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