viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
    
 | | 10/15/2006 10:53 PM |
| | Hey guys, I just busted out a War Troll the other day. Now, again, I am just beginning out in this game and I know he isn't the best. However I would like to build a decent LE warband with him and I would like to know if anyone can help me out. I want both a regular 200pt skirmish warband and a LE Epic for those bigger games. Can anyone help me out? | | | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 10/16/2006 12:02 AM |
| maybe you can use something like this, maybe it work:
Wartroll 69
Dark Naga 41 (bigby slapping hands)
Kobold sorcerer 20 (magic weapon) or dark moon monk 15
Duergar Champion 33
Doom Fist Monk 27
Kobold miner x2 6
dire rat 4
8 activations, 200 pts (with Kobold sorcerer)
8 activations 200 pts (with DMM, and you change dire rat for Wolf skeleton 9pts) | |
Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 10/16/2006 5:01 AM |
| Dunno about epic war trolls, though someone ran to at last years euros, almost beat a dual HRD band, failed at the last( tile points...).
Dual plain war troll+gauth+snig+kobold miner is fun and occasionly successful.
Or play him+some duergars and horros with dmm for magic weapon. | |
Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 10/16/2006 8:00 AM |
| | Epic War Troll seems to suffer a bit from low saves and HP. It has to make a morale save too early, and unless you run a Blackguard, the risks of 200 points of your warband running is too high. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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MuscledDestroyer
Sergeant
435 Posts
Prospect Park, Pa
| | 10/16/2006 8:23 AM |
| | Epic War Troll is Awesome. I have it and my son plays LE and kills me with him. His high AC and good ranged attacks make you go to him.He should get at least 2 ranged off before melee unless he is out gunned and he's gotta go to you. If done right he can go toe to toe with many epics. Often I've had to win on victory areas. I wish I had 2. His damage and to hit are great in melee. | |
Champion of Grape Juice. Its delicious. | |
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Daezarkian
Sneak
110 Posts
| | 10/16/2006 8:52 AM |
| I've had good luck with a few War Troll variants:
WAR KITTY
Rakshasha
War Troll
Duergar Champion x2
Dark Moon Monk
Goblin Skirmisher x2
Kobold Miner
Map: Drow Outpost
3 hitters, slapping hands and magic weapon, oh my!
DUAL TROLLS
Urthok
War Troll x2
Dark Moon Monk
Timber Wolf
Duergar Warrior x2
Map: Dragon Shrine
Not a tremendous damage output, but you can compensate for your lack of resistances and put some ranged hurt on the enemy before they have to come and engage.
DRAGON TROLL
Orog Warlord
War Troll
Large Green Dragon
Mountain Orc (minion)
Goblin Skirmisher x2
Kobold Miner
Orc Warrior (minion)
Map: Hellspike
Follow up some acid breath with the hard-hitting troll, who'll be attacking flanked creatures at +25 when within 6 squares of the Orog! (Even the Miner has a chance to hit flanked opponents...)
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Daezarkian
Demonic Accountant | |
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/16/2006 6:26 PM |
| Well my biggest problem comes with the 200pt skirmish. My friend runs Warduke and a few other bad creatures that I just cannot seem to beat around. I run this for now:
War Troll
Snig, Worg Rider
Goblin Blackblade x2 (one being free due to Snig)
Hobgoblin Archer
Terror Wight x2
Flameskull
I just seem to never get past anything and it's irritating. This warband just seems too crappy to me, but let me know if it's a good start or not. I am open to suggestions on anything. | | | |
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Daezarkian
Sneak
110 Posts
| | 10/16/2006 7:06 PM |
| The biggest suggestion that I can offer for your band is to invest in at least one secondary hitter -- the Goblin Blackblades and Flameskull are excellent support pieces,
but you really need to invest some other good beaters. Luckily, LE has no shortage of those, many of them Uncommon (and are relatively easy to acquire). Duergar Champions are probably the best choice (solid attacks, Conceal 6, high level), though Zakya Rakshashas, Helmed Horrors, Chraals, etc. all fall within the 33-45 price range and can serve as good support hitters for the big Troll.
I'd also recommend a different Commander -- Snig certainly has his place, but Commander 0 puts your War Troll at 50/50 to make his MC, and that's not good. The Inspired Lieutenant (Uncommon, Wardrums) is a good choice, as are a few other Uncommon LE Commanders that can give the big guy a bit more survivability. | |
Daezarkian
Demonic Accountant | |
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MuscledDestroyer
Sergeant
435 Posts
Prospect Park, Pa
| | 10/17/2006 8:13 AM |
| HH and war troll are tough. The the key to War Troll like I said is to not rush into battle. Position to use ranged attacks. Even if your opponent gets some points for victory areas you still have time to win with war Troll's fighting ability. | |
Champion of Grape Juice. Its delicious. | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 10/17/2006 8:02 PM |
| the best commander for Wartroll are (not in order of importance):
Rakshasa (com 4,nice CFx (copy cat); slide, bigby´s Slapping Hands)
dark Naga (com 3, bigby´s Slapping Hands)
Inspired Litenaunt (com 4, good balance, and psionics, Cfx+2 attack )
urthok (com 5, for 34 points, and Cfx +2 melee atack)
and finally Half orc Figther (cmd 3, 21 points Cfx +2 attack)
The best and more complete I think is Rakshasa,but have low HP so it needs protection. Dark naga is a good replace for rakshasa (except CFx) if you don´t have it.
the last 3 have similar comander effect so you can pick some of them depending of metagame in your area, to change if you need more support or more hitters.
Drop Snig worg rider, only goblins blackblade for support, is not a good idea!!!
Use some 30-40 hitters as 2nd and 3rt hitters
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Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/17/2006 10:15 PM |
| Yeah I am pretty much using what I have so far. Though I am dropping the whole warband and am getting Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat, Inspired Lt. and Mercenary Sgt. and will work on a spawn/dragon warband. In fact I wrote down a 500pt Epic warband I wanted opinions on.
War Troll Epic 202pts
Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat x2Â 37pts each (dragonmaster 20)
Inspired Lt. 45pts
Mercenary Sgt. 23pts
Bluespawn Godslayer x2Â using dragonmaster 20
Aspect of Tiamat using other dragonmaster 20 | | | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 10/17/2006 10:24 PM |
| Not sure how you are using Tiamat and the Bluespawn Godslayers. Beastmaster or in this case dragonmaster doesn't mean grab any dragon you like and add it to the warband for free.
Maybe I am not seeing something. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 10/17/2006 11:28 PM |
| Posted By viper84 on 10/17/2006 10:15 PM
Yeah I am pretty much using what I have so far. Though I am dropping the whole warband and am getting Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat, Inspired Lt. and Mercenary Sgt. and will work on a spawn/dragon warband. In fact I wrote down a 500pt Epic warband I wanted opinions on.
War Troll Epic 202pts
Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat x2Â 37pts each (dragonmaster 20)
Inspired Lt. 45pts
Mercenary Sgt. 23pts
Bluespawn Godslayer x2Â using dragonmaster 20
Aspect of Tiamat using other dragonmaster 20
352 (tiamat)+202 (epic war troll)+ 290 (Blue barney X2)= 844 for a 500 pts warband.
Plus all 4 figures you put (142pts).
A great total of 986 pts on the warband ¿?
This is not how dragonmaster 20 works!!!!
Dragonmaster works with Dragons who have difficult. If a Dragon have for example difficult 5, it only be under Commander for a commander with commander rating 5+. If Commander have level 4 or less the dragon can´t be put under command. | |
Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 10/18/2006 12:20 AM |
| Posted By viper84 on 10/17/2006 10:15 PM
Yeah I am pretty much using what I have so far. Though I am dropping the whole warband and am getting Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat, Inspired Lt. and Mercenary Sgt. and will work on a spawn/dragon warband. In fact I wrote down a 500pt Epic warband I wanted opinions on.
War Troll Epic 202pts
Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat x2Â 37pts each (dragonmaster 20)
Inspired Lt. 45pts
Mercenary Sgt. 23pts
Bluespawn Godslayer x2Â using dragonmaster 20
Aspect of Tiamat using other dragonmaster 20
You dont really need the Dragonmaster with either Bluespawns or Tiamat. BLuespanws dont have the difficult ability, so even a commander 1 can caommand them and Tiamat is a commander herself, so she wont even be affected by it in the first place. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 10/18/2006 1:54 AM |
| A well piloted Wartroll warband such as the following won the Toronto Qualifier:
Urthok
War Troll x2
Dark Moon Monk
Timber Wolf
Filler
Good damage output and with DMM magic weapon.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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jeremiahcarissa
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 10/18/2006 5:48 AM |
| The one I used to win a local tourney just last weekend was.
Half-orc Fighter
2 wartrolls
2 large duergars
2 blues
mushroom cavern.
I really wanted to use the cleric of nerull but I don't have one at the moment but she makes these guys just nasty to face. | |
Need Miniatures Painted? E-mail me at jeremiahschmidt2002@hotmail.com | |
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 12:04 AM |
| | Yeah yeah guys, I received misleading info about that dragonmaster bs. In fact I am working something new now that I got a few new pieces to add to my LE. My friend drew a Kumat so I added him but am having trouble locating cheaper yet effective LE's to add to War Troll and Khumat for a 200pt warband. | | | |
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jeremiahcarissa
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 6:21 AM |
| use the cleric of nerull. wiht a dark moon monk. I have a displacer so I would go with that and filler or you could throw in the duergar champ.
Looking like
Cleric of Nerull
Wartroll
Khumat
Dark moon monk
Displacer beast or Duergar Champ
Filler | |
Need Miniatures Painted? E-mail me at jeremiahschmidt2002@hotmail.com | |
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aron1
Sergeant
415 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 6:29 AM |
| Posted By viper84 on 10/16/2006 6:26 PM
Well my biggest problem comes with the 200pt skirmish. My friend runs Warduke and a few other bad creatures that I just cannot seem to beat around. I run this for now:
War Troll
Snig, Worg Rider
Goblin Blackblade x2 (one being free due to Snig)
Hobgoblin Archer
Terror Wight x2
Flameskull
I just seem to never get past anything and it's irritating. This warband just seems too crappy to me, but let me know if it's a good start or not. I am open to suggestions on anything.
Double check this--I thought Big Snig granted you two minions of up to 12 points each, so you could get both Blackblades for free.
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Champion of the Thoqqua | |
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jeremiahcarissa
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 6:59 AM |
| | to the total of 12 points not each. | |
Need Miniatures Painted? E-mail me at jeremiahschmidt2002@hotmail.com | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 9:39 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 10/18/2006 1:54 AM
A well piloted Wartroll warband such as the following won the Toronto Qualifier:
Urthok
War Troll x2
Dark Moon Monk
Timber Wolf
Filler
It did well, but I don't think it won. My buddy piloted it, I believe he came in 3rd or 2nd, I'll ask him.
He's a good pilot though.Â | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 12:39 PM |
| Well I am going to use War Troll and Khumat both instead of running two War Trolls. One reason is because I don't have another War Troll...lol. Here's the warband my friend runs, and maybe someone will be able to figure out why I am having so much trouble:
Inspired Lt.
Mercenary Sgt.
Zakya Rakshasa
Half Orc Executioner x2
Wererat Rogue
Karnathi Zombie x2
Doom Fist Monk
I don't what it is, maybe my strategies suck, but I seem to get powned every single time. His other warband consists of:
Warduke
King-Obould Many Arrows
Cleric of Laogzed
Troglodyte Thug x2
Ogre Skirmisher
Blood Ghost Beserker
Are these actually good warbands, or is my strategy just all wrong?
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 1:24 PM |
| | I think it may be strategy. Those aren't terrible warbands, but a lot of the figures in those lists are not considered "optimal pieces". Try running a Mind Flayer (or Mind Flayer Telepath) and Helmed Horrors or Cadaver Collector, stun the heck out of them each round. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/21/2006 11:34 AM |
| | Then what would be considered "optimal pieces?" | | | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/21/2006 11:48 AM |
| | Viper84, check FAACS, Stability value, HP/Cost rate, Damage/Cost rate and other stats to identify "Optimal pieces". | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 10/22/2006 11:27 AM |
| Posted By viper84 on 10/20/2006 12:39 PM
Well I am going to use War Troll and Khumat both instead of running two War Trolls. One reason is because I don't have another War Troll...lol. Here's the warband my friend runs, and maybe someone will be able to figure out why I am having so much trouble:
Inspired Lt.
Mercenary Sgt.
Zakya Rakshasa
Half Orc Executioner x2
Wererat Rogue
Karnathi Zombie x2
Doom Fist Monk
I don't what it is, maybe my strategies suck, but I seem to get powned every single time. His other warband consists of:
Warduke
King-Obould Many Arrows
Cleric of Laogzed
Troglodyte Thug x2
Ogre Skirmisher
Blood Ghost Beserker
Are these actually good warbands, or is my strategy just all wrong?
The LE band runs redundant commanders. To gain the Sgt's command effect a unit also needs to be commanded by the IL which provides the same benefit and do NOT stack. Other than that is isn't horrible but does have several weaknesses that can be exploited. Vs a War Troll/Khumat it needs to worry about the Khumat's Jaws of Doom but also benefits from a more distributed power base.
The CE warband isn't optimal but isn't bad either. Titans facing it may need to worry about losing support quickly and possibly routing off the board when Warduke Intimidates them.
I don't know that twin titans with a War Troll will be particularly effective against either but also shouldn't be handicaped either. My guess is the winner comes down to the best strategy.
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viper84
Skirmisher
31 Posts
| | 10/22/2006 4:35 PM |
| | Makes sense. But again we are running on what we have. And though they aren't the most optimal, I picked up a few Large Duergars and for their cost I decided to add them in. And in other words you're saying I should drop either the Khumat or the War Troll? I have come to that conclusion as well but lack the peices to put in its place. I know I need more stunning or paralysis creatures that are cheap so make my hits more optimal, is what I am thinking. I have found a few things I would like to get, but it's a matter of actually getting them now. And I feel I am getting better with the strategy, I feel comfortable facing either warband with a War Troll, Khumat, and 3 Large Duergars + filler. However I am really considering dropping Khumat to add Inspired Lt. and a doom fist monk + filler. | | | |
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