Zyla
Underboss
1201 Posts
    
 | | 10/28/2006 12:00 AM |
| | The orc wizard and its dolorous blow spell gives makes the target score criticle hits on a 18, 19 or 20. Was thinking this can work good with the non-epic Balor's Viscious attack which deals triple damage on a criticle hit, would make it do 60 damage on a 18. 19. or 20 | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 10/28/2006 12:16 AM |
| | Yes, is a nice sinergyc for that Balor´s SA. Maybe is what Balor need to be better. But Still it dont work to much if you have a lot of constructs on you local Meta. but is still fun to play! | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 10/28/2006 4:00 AM |
| | Humm....at least is the only combo I can imagine with these two.The problem is that balor does not work well in 200 nor in epic play.I think orc druid is much more useful than the wizard and much more with dual fomorians! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 10/28/2006 5:21 AM |
| Posted By Zyla on 10/28/2006 12:00 AM
The orc wizard and its dolorous blow spell gives makes the target score criticle hits on a 18, 19 or 20. Was thinking this can work good with the non-epic Balor's Viscious attack which deals triple damage on a criticle hit, would make it do 60 damage on a 18. 19. or 20
The Dolorous Blow spell might work well with Eye of Gruumsh's Viscious attack the deals triple damage. Its bad enough that he does 25 magic damage per swing, but 75 damage on a roll of 18, 19, 30. Ouch!Â
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 10/28/2006 6:17 AM |
| | Err, the Eye of Gruumsh's Viscious Attack causes it to take 5 damage every time it hits, not get triple damage | |
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originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 10/28/2006 6:40 AM |
| | Mamma mia!Eye of gruumsh causing triple damage!Only in my dreams!! | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 10/28/2006 6:47 AM |
| Because criticals are auto hits in DDM. the first mini that came to my mind was the before almost unplayable Ettin Skirmisher.
4 attacks each with a 15% change of doing 40 damage. I am not sure if this will work in 200 point, but at 40 points I could see that possible 160hp of damage being useful as a minor piece of a 500 point band.
Even agaist constructs criticals are still auto hits giving the ettin a 15% chance to hit any armour class.
and of course epic balor vorpal. hehehe Edit: oops almighty my bad | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
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| 10/28/2006 7:34 AM |
| This could make the Skeletal Reaper a lot of fun. That piece will do 40 damage 15% of the time, and only costs 21 points.
Dave | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 10/28/2006 7:49 AM |
| Can anyone find Guy's clarification on the issue of an expanded threat range guaranteeing a hit?
Here's what I mean. Suppose the Skeletal Reaper is attacking (+7) and it has a critical range of 18-20 thanks to the Orc Wizard. If it's going up against a creature with a 26 AC, it should miss on an 18, but the 18 is now a critical, so does it hit or not?
Last I checked, it does hit, because criticals always hit. But I can't find the reference anymore.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/28/2006 8:37 AM |
| Yes critical is aouto-hit.... no matter of AC value.
Is very Sad that EPIC balor have that stupid "Almigthy"......EPIC Balor with critical 18 make me dream!!! Thats the real Balor  | |
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 10/28/2006 12:26 PM |
| | Yeah otherwise epic balor+orc wizard+some orc druids+orc drummer(dunno how many druids?). | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/28/2006 12:35 PM |
| Posted By froffenhoffer on 10/28/2006 12:26 PM
Yeah otherwise epic balor+orc wizard+some orc druids+orc drummer(dunno how many druids?).
Hehehhehe LOL. You can put about 7 Orc Druids........ The problem find this amount of old Rares minis. EPIC Balor....... I wish that WoTC fix this unit a little ......maybe looking for some way to remove the Almigthy.....
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 10/28/2006 4:12 PM |
| Vreck, the reference you're looking for is in the rulebook on page 11 (Natural 20).
Well, an Eye of Gruumsh who does triple damage might be only in our dreams, but with the Orc Wizard and a follower who can benefit from Lareth the Beautiful's commander effect... | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1201 Posts
| | 10/28/2006 4:49 PM |
| | The eye of gruumish takes 5 damage on every attack instead of triple damage, so it wouldnt benefit much. Also the Balor would gain 60 damage on first hit and 30+5 fire on second hit, so assuming you roll at least 18 twice its a total of 90+5 fire damage, which isnt too bad. The Wardrummer and Orc Wizard may be just what the Balor needs. | |
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Drekzon
Sneak
101 Posts
| | 10/28/2006 9:16 PM |
| Orc Wizard + Epic Vlaakith = Vorpal on 18-20
nevermind that, Vlaakith is crazy enough....
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 10/29/2006 5:46 AM |
| Orc Wizard + Epic Vlaakith = Vorpal on 18-20
I think everyone saw that....still could be devestating. | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
424 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 10/29/2006 9:47 AM |
| | In prerelease I used orc wizrd on Solar, so criticals were 50 magic. MC on a thundertusk with one shot, killed a Harmonium guard with one shot. But in 4 matches I only rolled 3 crits and 1 was a 20 anyway. It is a great benefit, but I wouldnt build a band around it too strongly. I think the reaper is a good idea for constructed, cheap piece with huge payoff - just what CE is all about. | |
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JohnnyFive
Warrior
207 Posts
| | 10/29/2006 6:05 PM |
| | Those are nice, but what about using Dolorous Blow on the Maralith? | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 10/29/2006 9:22 PM |
| Dolorus blow is a great idea... on paper... i laughed and laughed and laughed all day when people dolorus blowed many big hitters and I only heard of it working once the whole tourny... it was great...
but seriously... over the course of a tourny that's a lot of attacks from a marilith to get doubled up on... a lot of dmg for some of the big hitters if they only critted once or twice a whole tourny... interesting but I'm not totally sold yet... | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 10/30/2006 6:06 AM |
| My Dragon Knight was critted 3 time in 4 attacks by a Kolyraut with dolorous blow. It's not something you can ignore on an enemy beater. | | | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 10/30/2006 7:18 AM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 10/28/2006 8:37 AM
Yes critical is aouto-hit.... no matter of AC value.
No, it's not. A natural "20" is an auto-hit, just as a natural "1" is an auto-miss. A 20 just also happens to be a critical hit. Increasing the critical hit threat range does NOT increase the auto-hit range. | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/30/2006 7:22 AM |
| @greyhaze, Guy's aclarations say other thing, a have read that critical range increase auto-hit range. If you have Tiefling Captain an 19 is an auto-hit. Maybe I can be wrong  but is good to aclarate this rules. Thanks | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 10/30/2006 7:24 AM |
| Oh, wow, I just read the last line on pg 11 of natural 20's - "If a creature somehow can score a critical hit on a roll of less than 20, that still counts as an automatic hit."
My appologies, it seems I was wrong. o_O | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/30/2006 7:29 AM |
| | @greyhaze, I think that 3 fomorians + 3 Orc wizards can hit tordek with 18-20 very hard!!! Orc wizard is very GREAT unit.... | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 10/30/2006 8:06 AM |
| As the balor's effect is only on his primary attack, it isn't really that exciting. You're better off putting it on a creature with a low AB that hits decently hard (like an Ettin Skirmisher). That will allow him to hit high AC enemies on 1 of every ~7 strikes... and hit hard. | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/30/2006 8:46 AM |
| I want to see an HGB with Critical 18 and cleave via CoG..... "I attack the Red Samurai....dice.....18 !! critical 75 damages.....is death....... CLEAVE!!!"
Hehhehe Im just joking..... | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
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Zyla
Underboss
1201 Posts
| | 10/30/2006 1:11 PM |
| 60 damage from the balor on the first hit, something will be making a moral save.
Balor
Orc Wardrummer
Orc Wizard
Cursed Spirit
this is what i been using to develop a warband using the balor, just need other stuff to fill in teh gaps. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 10/30/2006 6:00 PM |
| | Yeah, the ettin is the piece that jumped into my head first with this one (well, ok, right after the HGB.) I don't think it really vaults the ettin into competitiveness though.
What will make or break the orc wizard is how useful those battering ram spells turn out to be. I think it has a chance. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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evilMoose
49 Posts
Broken Hill, Australia
| | 10/31/2006 6:35 AM |
| | Maralith, Orc Wizard and Gnoll Sarge ..... 6 hits at +15 for 15 damage each with 18 to 20 criticals. Holy crap, you roll well (which is a given of course) and youre gonna make a mess outta some opposition warbands. | |
'nuff said,
AC | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 10/31/2006 8:22 AM |
| | The Orc Wizard helps out a lot of nice CE pieces. While the Balor is the most obvious, it'll probably do wonders for the Hill Giant Barbarian and an old favourite of mine, the Ogre Ravager. I don't think that things with a high BAB, like the Eye of Gruumsh, benefit as much per se. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 10/31/2006 10:41 AM |
| CE Orc Wizard 24
Level: 7
Speed: 6
AC: 14
HP: 35 Melee: +5 (10 magic) Type: humanoid – orc Spells
4th – empowered fireburst () (each adjacent creature; 25 fire damage; can cast while adjacent to enemy; DC 16)
3rd – dolorous blow () (touch; target creature scores critical hits on melee attack rolls of 18, 19 and 20)
2nd – battering ram ()()() (range 6; 5 damage and push target creature 1 square, can cast while adjacent to enemy)
The Orc Wizard is an interesting piece, but I doubt that it will be truly competitive. Although it vaults pieces like the Ettin Skirmisher from bad to mediocre, it doesn't really vault any piece from good to great or from great to outstanding.Â
This piece will typically cast dolorous blow and then move on rd 1. As the rest of his abilities require close proximity to an enemy, he'll need to double move to get to the enemy on rd 2. On rd 3, he can launch off a battering ram if he is close by the enemy... unfortunately, this will likely put him in range of many enemy line, cone or radius spells. With 35 hps and level 7, he is not going to handle a fireball, cone of cold, or breath weapon terribly well... even with a +4 to saves from the war drummer.Â
If bodyguards are prevelant in the meta, his battering ram might allow one of your hitters to get in a hit on an enemy heavy. However, it is not terribly difficult to place your supporting pieces around a large creature to make the battering ram effect impossible to pull off.Â
I think he'll be a fun piece, but he doesn't make my tier 1 tool chest... | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 10/31/2006 11:30 AM |
| | On the contrary, it is precisely his ability to separate bodyguards from their charges that I think gives him a chance to see play. I think every band needs to think very hard about how it is going to deal with bodyguards, at least for the next couple months while the metagame works itself out. Having a push or slide ability is going to be a big plus in early tournaments, I think, and the orc wizard is a reasonable way to achieve that. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/31/2006 11:54 AM |
| Is indiscutible the competative usage of OW, I dont know why a lot of us quest about it.... Critical 18 in CE hevy hitters is really amaizing ..... The posibility to make 80 damages with an fomorian...... 75 with Hill Giant Barbarian......
Is simple statistic calculation one hit is 15% to critical hit instead of Normal 5%, if you have more probalilities when you add more attacks. Seek for "Aditive rule" of statistic.
OW is trully competative | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 10/31/2006 11:58 AM |
| | The crit ability isn't something you can rely on, though. If it is the only reason you want the orc wizard in a band you're probably better off not including it. The primary value of the piece is tied up in the push spells, and dolorous blow is more of a nice bonus ability. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 10/31/2006 12:09 PM |
| Ok, are you saying that minis that is linked with probability dont work?
In this case Bahamut dont work under your ideas, only because your enemies have the PROBABILITY to save your Line or Cone power........ the same with Tiamat........ The same with Solar........ and other examples.
I undersatand that is better use minis that have minimal probability failure.... like GIth Monks, but this game is about probability........all the time %
In other hand Im completly agree the power of Battery Ram spell, This can anulate bodyguard effect.
I go for, OW is competative 50% critical 18 and other 50% battery ram......... both have the same value.
Again OW is competative
Battery ram have probability too, try to quit an marut to near bodyguard....... if you can pull the bodyguard, you need to check marut's SR to quit bodyguard effect off.... ALL % | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 10/31/2006 12:24 PM |
| | I'm not saying the ability is worthless. If it was we wouldn't see as much of the tiefling captain as we do. What I am saying though is that it isn't reliable *enough* for me to consider that piece as a tier 1 option based on that alone. My guess is that play will show that the battering ram spell makes a game-winning difference more often than dolorous blow. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Blunt Claymore
Sneak
78 Posts
| | 10/31/2006 7:42 PM |
| | Dolorous blow improves 1) beaters with many hits -- Ettin Skirmisher's 4 hits have been mentioned, and 2) improves likelihood of hitting hard-to-hit creatures (for those that needed a 20 to hit (5%), they've tripled the likelihood to the "still not very likely" 15%).
Large Fang Dragon and Marilith looks like its best friends on this account. In addition, the battering ram (at the cost of 5 damage) can be used to help them close so they can get all their attacks. Might be worth it for that badguy who is just out of reach... | |
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