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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
    
United States
 | | 12/17/2006 9:38 AM |
| So, here's the next one. I'm not too sure about this, I think a Solar band is a lot harder to pull off than a dual-Maug band. I'm looking for some assistance here.
Solar
Dragonmark
Sacred Watcher x2
Lantern Bearer
Timber Wolf
Azer Raider
Human Commoner
I was thinking about using one of the many 40+ point options (Couatl, Kolyarut, Arcane Ballista, Justicator), but I figured that keeping the Solar alive longer would be better.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 12/17/2006 10:40 AM |
| | Why the two watchers? I would tend towards Aramil+artificer, or aramil+cleric of order for those points.. both is tempting,or, in a pinch, another dragonmarked heir.. | |
Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/17/2006 8:06 PM |
| I wanted to go with two Sacred Watchers to have two viable threats other than the Solar. Each one is a useful piece, as a shield, as a minor hitter, as a victory area grabber, etc. In this case, I think it is possible to say "if one is good, two is better." Often, I won't say that with minis.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 12/18/2006 5:10 AM |
| Use Kolgarut and Dragonmark, imporve Solar durability and makes Slaying arrow very powerfull.......... DC 22 is great!!!! against enemy titans (If they dont have bodyguards or If your enemy place the titan wrong)
Solar 105pts
Kolgarut 45pts
Dragonmark 34pts
184pts
16pts fodders. | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 5:36 AM |
| I love the figure, but can't figure out a build I like with him yet. I had toyed with the idea of:
Solar 105
Kolyarut 45 150
..and filler but that left me cold as it makes my 105-point titan not only the desired figure to take out, but probably the easiest one.
Another idea:
Solar 105
Dragonmark Heir 34 139
Dragonmark Heir 34 173
...and filler, but again, the Solar stays easy to hit too often.
Then I thought, how about:
Solar 105
War Weaver 33 138
Dwarf Artificer 21 149
Dwarf Phalanx Fighter 12 161
Dwarf Phalanx Fighter 12 173
Dwarf Phalanx Fighter 12 185
Warforged Scout 8 193
Dalelands Militia 7 200
I like this idea, on paper anyway.
The Artificer/War Weaver combo is key. Sure, you bump the Dwarves up four notches in AC with Phalanx Fighting and Shield of Faith, and their damage is then 10 Magic, but the Solar also needs teh Greater Magic Weapon to swing over the top of the Phalanx wall while making his AC effectively 25 against those with reach swinging back. Mithril Mines may be the best map with all of it's corridors that can be blocked off.
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/18/2006 7:27 AM |
| Posted By Gunthar on 12/18/2006 5:36 AM
I love the figure, but can't figure out a build I like with him yet. I had toyed with the idea of:
Solar 105
Kolyarut 45 150
..and filler but that left me cold as it makes my 105-point titan not only the desired figure to take out, but probably the easiest one.
I discovered the same weakness. That's why I didn't choose the Kolyarut with the Solar.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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TheArcher
Skirmisher
29 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 11:27 AM |
| I think its not an overly wise idea to go with solar and one or more Dragon Marks. Even if solar is buffed I think there are better titan choices for building tank groups... besides, while being almost useless in epic, the slaying arrow can really break a game in 200pts play.
Thats why I would go with secondary beaters and only a bit of buffing:
Solar
Kolyarut
Sacred Watcher
Dwarf Artificer
Mialee
Azer Raider
The Kolyarut makes the enemy hit even worse and heightens the chance of a successful slaying arrow (combined with greater MW from Artificer). Also there are 3 hitters profiting from the +2 AC from the dwarf.
I havent tried it yet but it seems to have potential. Another option woud be Dragon Mark of course but, as I said, with AC19 there are better titans out there for the Dragon Mark to protect....
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/18/2006 11:36 AM |
| Posted By TheArcher on 12/18/2006 11:27 AM
Another option woud be Dragon Mark of course but, as I said, with AC19 there are better titans out there for the Dragon Mark to protect....
Agreed. That's why I asked for best Solar bands. He's not, in my view, even close to the best titan; but, I was hoping someone would have a really good band with him anyway.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 12/18/2006 12:42 PM |
| The Solar needs:
AC
AB
HPs
DMHoHD adds only effective HPs. It still needs help with the AB and AC. I suggest a Dwarf Artificer to add the extra +2 to hit and the +2 AC.
105 Solar
021 Dwarf Artificer
034 DMHoHD
___
160 for 3 figures
From there, you need 8 activations, meaning that no piece can cost more than 28 points. To fill it out, I'd add:
005 Timber Wolf
013 Aramil
016 Hammer
003 Man at Arms
003 Human Commoner
___
040Â points for 5 more activations.
This warband is focused entirely on the Solar.Â
Aramil is used to draw enemy forces away from the Solar/Nerf enemies (effectiveing increasing Solar HP/AC).Â
The Hammerer is a secondary beater with some real punch for the cost - although very slow. The speed should not be *too* big of a deal given that the hammerer will likely be tasked with eliminating small threats such as enemy tile grabbers in the backfield.
Timber Wolf / Human Commoner are tile grabbers.
Artificer casts the GMW on turn 1, then the Legions Shield on Turn 2. Then, he helps the hammerer hunt down tile grabbers.
The Bodyguard just tries to stay with the Solar and toss in a punch here or there. Once low on hps, it can choose to abandon the Solar's side and move to a flank position to get in some real damage for 1 attack.
Again, not good, but it is fun... | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1497 Posts
Spain
| | 12/19/2006 2:10 AM |
| | I,ll go for the couatl for sure.The solar has low HP and needs the cures.Snake,s are very very useful on him.And the kolyarut idea is a good one (you can improve the slaying DC).I,ll try couatl+warweaver.You can win only attacking one and another time with his powerful melee.I think the key with solar is snake,s swifness abuse. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/21/2006 7:28 AM |
| I'm still searching. How about this?
Solar
Tordek
Aramil
Timber Wolf x2
Azer Raider x2
Human Commoner
You forgo the option of a Bodyguard or Couatl, and instead focus on the higher damage output in Tordek. The Solar can hang back, using the five fodder pieces as shields and letting Tordek serve as the point man. The enemy will either engage Tordek or try to get around him and engage the Solar. In either case, so long as you keep the Solar and Tordek within about 6 of each other, you can bring the other to bear to assist.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Phantom77
Skirmisher
12 Posts
| | 12/21/2006 4:23 PM |
| I gave this a go a couple weeks ago, I won the match, don't remember exactly what it was against, a Maralith but can't remember the rest.
Solar
Justice Archon
Sacred Watcher x2
Arcanix Guard
Warforged Scout
Mialee
Hill Dwarf Warrior | | | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 12/21/2006 5:36 PM |
| I'll admit to being lazy and not finishing the warband but I've thought of replacing the Aspect of Moradin in the AoM/Iron Golem combo. The commander isn't as tough but is more mobile and a bigger long range threat.
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/21/2006 6:14 PM |
| I really don't like the dwarf artificer in a non-epic titan band. He's basically just increasing the cost of the titan by another 21 points for +2 AC and +2 to hit, which is rarely a good deal, imo.
If I'm going to spend a bunch of points on support, I want something with better synergy, like snake's swiftness or some big heals.
I might just go with Solar, Sacred Watcher x4, Timber Wolf x2, Aramil. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 12/21/2006 7:56 PM |
| Good points.
I just now realized that the Solar's CFXÂ prevents Chill Touch from affecting the Sacred Watchers... | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/22/2006 9:45 AM |
| Posted By Temysry on 12/21/2006 7:56 PM
I just now realized that the Solar's CFXÂ prevents Chill Touch from affecting the Sacred Watchers... This makes IanB's band seem really tempting.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Kumag
Sergeant
441 Posts
The Philippines
| | 12/22/2006 10:21 AM |
| Or you can have the best of both worlds by having 3 Sacred Watchers and a Dragonmark Heir. Human Commoner and Aasimar Fighter rounds up the seven-activation warband. Call it Solar Swarm if you will.
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3485 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 12/22/2006 10:48 AM |
| Solar
Couatl
Dragonmark Heir of Deneith
Aramil
Human Commoner
Man-at-arms
I guess I have Couatl on the brain. I just love that guy. The Heir can make the Solar immune to another energy type, if needed, and can soak up damage for him. The Couatl powers the Solar with snake's swiftness and helps keep the Heir out of trouble from energy damage (and maybe heals the Solar in a pinch). Aramil will probably just nerf enemy hitters, while the commoner goes for assault points, and the Man-at-arms helps to fill out activations. Not sure how good that is, though. I kind of like the Solar/Iron Golem option, like maybe:
Solar
Iron Golem
Sacred Watcher
Timber Wolf x2
Man-at-arms x2
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"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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Pauper
Sergeant
508 Posts
| | 12/22/2006 11:29 AM |
| I was tinkering with this one, and am not going to end up running it on Saturday, so I figured I'd share it:
Solar Dragon
Solar (105)
Medium Silver Dragon (52)
Aasimar Favored Soul (20)
Arcanix Guard (9)
Warforged Scout (
Man-at-Arms x2 (6)
200 points, 7 activations
You could jiggle the last four if you're an 8 activation purist.
Theories:
- Both Solar and Medium Silver are Immune Acid and Immune Cold, giving maximal options for the Dragon to use its Cold breath; also both creatures Fly, making them very maneuverable to support one another
- One weakness of the Solar is +7 on its third melee attack; however, if an enemy is helpless within 2 squares, it can use that +7 as an auto-hit for 50 magic damage, saving its higher rated attacks for still-active opponents
- Using the AFS's magic weapon and bless grants +2 to attack on a key piece (likely the Dragon), and its Illuminator prevents enemies from escaping the Solar's melee attack via Conceal or Invisibility
It is still fairly light on HP, despite both the Solar and Dragon, and the AFS is begging to be assasinated, but it's as good a potential build as I can come up with for the piece.
--
Pauper | |
Champion of the War Wizard of Cormyr | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3813 Posts
USA
| | 12/25/2006 7:53 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 12/22/2006 9:45 AM Posted By Temysry on 12/21/2006 7:56 PM
I just now realized that the Solar's CFXÂ prevents Chill Touch from affecting the Sacred Watchers... This makes IanB's band seem really tempting. Dave
I agree. Ian's idea of x4 Sacred Watchers in the warband (Solar, x4 Sacred Watcher, Timber Wolf x2, Aramil) combined with the Solars CFX makes for an interesting combination. Sacred Watcherscan be such a pain. I still think the non-Epic Solar is too fragile though.Â
Here's something I was pondering that looks interesting: Solar 105 pts
Elf Dragonkith 38 pts
Dragonborn Fighter 30 pts
Warforged Scout 8 pts
Mialee 6 pts
x2 T Wolf 10 pts
Man @ Arms 3 pts
8 activations, 200 pts
The Dragonborn Fighter supports the Dragonkith. He can use his BW with the energy choice to best suite the situation. With the ranged attacks, the enemy will have to come to you and thus the Dragonkiths slow speed should not be too big a factor. Mialee can MW Solar or Dragonborn Fighter for improved attacks.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Calicles
Sneak
51 Posts
| | 12/25/2006 8:58 PM |
| I think I would go with something like:
Solar
Sacred Watcher x5
Timber Wolf
Only 7 activations, but that shouldnt be too much of a problem for 5 SWs and the Solar's accurate ranged attack to get back quickly. I think the key to using the Solar effectively is two fold:Â
1. Force your opponent to base the Solar allowing the Solar to make all 3 attacks as often as possible. The Solar is not powerful enough to go hunting around in your opponents backfield and using it in a "move and attack" mode takes too much away from its efficiency (i.e., its super high point cost is a product of its 3 powerful attacks, only using 1 means you are losing alot of effective points from your warband).
2. Have additional viable threats that can still potentially win the game even if the Solar bites it, which it probably will, and if the Slaying Arrow doesnt work. Loading up on defense is tempting, but I think ultimately for little benefit. I think the Solar can be just powerful enough if played skillfully to cripple (but not actually defeat) an opposing warband. Having multiple additional viable threats may carry the day after the Solar has gotten its licks in.
So, for obvious reasons, I think multiple Sacred Watchers fit well into both of those basic strategies.  SWs also give the benefit of being very playable on maps that generally favor ranged / mobile bands such as Dragondown Grotto, Frostfell Rift and Kings Road, and may negate any advantage that those bands might normally have had against the Solar. | |
Champion of Sehanine Moonbow | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 12/26/2006 8:43 AM |
| | Calicles also forgot to mention that the Solar makes SWatchers immune to chill touch, depriving LE of its most effective defense against SWarms. | | | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10305 Posts
United States
| | 12/27/2006 7:39 AM |
| I've wondered about the Medium Silver, and Pauper's band makes effective use of it. I wish it weren't so expensive--that's what keeps me from using it. It's just such a shame to use a piece that's a quarter of the band and have it get beaten on and taken out. I mean, if I'm playing against the MSD, I'm going after it unless there's a strong reason not to.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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