Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
    
United States
 | | 12/18/2006 6:07 PM |
| I wanted to try out a CG band (Storm, Bralani x2, Dragonkith, Felldrake x2, Half-Ogre Bbn) and my son wanted to do a CG v. LE battle on the Broken Demongate, so he built a Pit Fiend band, and that got me thinking. What are some good Pit Fiend bands? Well? What's your best one?
Here was his:
Pit Fiend
Justicator
Zakya Rakshasa
Skeletal Legionnaire x2
Warrior Skeleton
Dave
| |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
xuthal
Sergeant
649 Posts
Boulder, CO
| | 12/18/2006 7:26 PM |
| Hey Dave. I'm not sure that it's the best, but I'll be playing this one soon:
Infernal Fury
Pit Fiend
Aspect of Hextor
20 points of fodder (Greenspawn Sneak, Dire Rats, etc.)
This is a pretty basic dual titan build. As others have noticed, the non-epic PF grants LE outsiders +5 damage and immune fire, which makes the AoH even more of a beast. I'd lead with AoH followed close by the PF. The PF's fireballs won't hurt the AoH and anyone stunned or paralysed by blasphemy becomes mincemeat very quickly with the AoH hitting at +12 x 4 for 20 magic.
Not very subtle. I'll let you know how it does.
SGB
| |
I dance along a colored wind / Dangle from a rope of sand. / You must say goodbye to me.
Positive ebay feedback (ID slithering): 620+
Trades on Hordelings.com (ID slithering): 100 to date
COMPLETED TRADES (111 to date): Blackthorne; l3m; Cannith; ArchMage7 (x5); Werebat; centurius; Orion72; realmaster; nasamonkey (x3); jeremiahcarissa; blade; simage (x2); brazenwood (x2); crisisman; Anaxagoras; nurvel; kyrin (x2); Rising Dragon; ethandrul; IHawk (x6); robbdaman; rockfrd; bonelock; James the True; zyla; Ironfist Boulderbender; cyderakk; Chris Orlando; minatoman38 (x4); Aesnath; Zeb; Beware of Kobold; visage; pigsnot; qillan_dvra; SneakyJoeKDB; patio103; Thenameless (x2); grnblk95; sterling40; hazel monday (x2); Ghendar; Ghidrah47952; nixlord; marjorie; emontedodger (x2); zeoph; DNDJUNKIE; AnarionZelle; thom; Cthulhufnord; Shadroth; Wraithborne; AnarionZelle; Mr Ruffles; Ismar; Cyberia; kmelstrom; Vrecknidj (x3); Dagaron; anothermullen; Thrace; tomas; Crisisman; SodjG; AnarionZelle, Sirohk, stephengroy, koriatsar, elfinboots, Wolfgang (x2), mcross, dumdragon, dagaron, skarnn, keoki, Brucemc, vtloon, Darkfather, vanrulzz, trilistria, sfgiants, mickey mouse, Olaf the Stout, Nyarlathotep333, Kilsek (x2) and oolong
TRADES IN PROGRESS: None at present | |
|
Melrune
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 7:36 PM |
| I like both the Pit Fiend and the Horned Devil... I know it doesn't leave much place forthe others activations but, even if not the best band, it should be fun to play: Pit Fiend
Horned Devil
12 pts of fodder (2 xkobold miners, 2 xgoblin skirmishers)
| |
| |
|
djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 12/18/2006 8:49 PM |
| I've played this twice now:
pit fiend
chraal
dragonmark
gravehound
fodder
so far I'm 1 and 1 although the loss I feel was more my fault then my opponents as I was in a strong position to win and then made a series of bad decisions. The pit fiend's best map is the dragonbone graveyard. | |
Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
|
kumaiti
Warrior
201 Posts
Moscow - Russia
| | 12/19/2006 3:30 AM |
| Pit Fiend + Zakya x2 + outsider fodders (I can't remember exactly what it was...)
The biggest problem: morale saves. Having your main beater saving at 9 or better isn't very good... | |
You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM... | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 12/19/2006 3:37 AM |
| Pit Fiend                  105
Efreeti                       42
Mezzoloth                 44
x3 Warrior Skeletons  9
6Â Activations, 200 pts.Â
2 tough outsiders that can deal out some serious damage before thr Pit Fiend engages the enemy.Â
 Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 12/19/2006 3:57 AM |
| | Fiend, Zak, justicator was my core to... | |
Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 12/19/2006 6:47 AM |
| Anyone trying anything like this?
Pit Fiend
Zakya Rakshasa
Duergar Champion
Snig
Minions x3
Two More Skirmishers
I'm curious how a 9-activation band with two hitters and a titan might do.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 12/19/2006 7:00 AM |
| sight range, auto damage pieces (in my opinion) go against the activation thought process. Take my example of claiming dragonbone graveyard is your map of choice. You want to go first because its so easy to get off a first round fireball on that map. Sirohk's band for instance wants to set up second, and then go first so that he can give the band its best chance to crack off a first turn AoE on the enemy. Its too bad that band can't have 2 greenspawn sneaks instead of the 3 skels. With the forward position of the sneak you can really hose your opponent over if you don't mind blowing up a little lizard.
in fact sirohk..I would dump 2 skels for one sneak. | |
Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
|
Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 12/19/2006 3:51 PM |
| I've run him with an efreeti with success. If your opponent is'nt fire-immune you are able to deal alot of pre-engagement damage.
If they are fire immune, well, you're doubly screwed.
| |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
| |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 12/19/2006 5:07 PM |
| Posted By djtool on 12/19/2006 7:00 AM
sight range, auto damage pieces (in my opinion) go against the activation thought process. Take my example of claiming dragonbone graveyard is your map of choice. You want to go first because its so easy to get off a first round fireball on that map. Sirohk's band for instance wants to set up second, and then go first so that he can give the band its best chance to crack off a first turn AoE on the enemy. Its too bad that band can't have 2 greenspawn sneaks instead of the 3 skels. With the forward position of the sneak you can really hose your opponent over if you don't mind blowing up a little lizard.
in fact sirohk..I would dump 2 skels for one sneak.
I was thinking the same thing - a Greenspawn for 2 Skellys.  That takes you down to below 6 activations, but I guess with the Pit Fiend, Efreeti, and Mezzoloth firing off all of their damaging spells in the first round, activation count should even out pretty quickly.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
DinoBen
Sergeant
407 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 12/19/2006 5:09 PM |
| A local player here has been running his Pit Fiend with a Zak Rak and Mezzoloth.
The Mezzoloth is a good addition because it offers a potential first round non-energy damage since so many things are immune to fire. Fodder included azers and at least one greenspawn sneak for tile points. He has done quite well with this band. | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
|
John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 12/19/2006 6:46 PM |
| Subtlety is for the meek!
Pit Fiend Predator FTW!
~John | |
| |
|
Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3484 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 12/22/2006 7:46 AM |
| Pit Fiend
Chain Devil
Mezzoloth
Warrior Skeleton x2
Low on activations, but the Chain Devil looks nice, to me, with a Pit Fiend. I'd have used 2, but that would cost yet another activation. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
|
djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 12/22/2006 9:27 AM |
| | maybe pit fiend is better in epic . I think next 500 point game I play I'll field the 105 version and some thaskors to see how it works out. | |
Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
|
Trackrunner56
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 12/23/2006 12:24 AM |
| I've been toying with pit fiend a little and I find that most of the good outsiders out there are too much for what i want to do with the warband. so I came up with this one:
Pit Fiend 105
Chraal x2 70
Sing         20
 Minions: 3x Skimishers
Dire Rat  4
8 Activations 199 Points
With two 20 damage cones, two 20 damage fireballs, and eight activations... this seems to be one of the better Pit Fiend warbands out there. And because the two little beaters are elementals, there won't be any lost games to a lucky crit or sneak attack. The Chraals run up to their army, breath, and then base as many pieces as possible before they die... and for even more fun, put a Chraal with 20 or less HPsin the middle of their army and use it a fireball lighting rod!!! | |
| |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 12/23/2006 5:23 AM |
| Dual Chraals no longer seems such a wise choice, but, with their speed and, as you point out, ability to serve as suicide bombers, it might work. The threat of targeting your own Chraal, and having opponents take both fire and cold damage from the blast could serve to keep your opponent from packing up around the Chraals. The presence of two cone threats further causes battlefield finesse (or death) and so maybe this could work.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 12/23/2006 7:57 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 12/23/2006 5:23 AM
Dual Chraals no longer seems such a wise choice, but, with their speed and, as you point out, ability to serve as suicide bombers, it might work. The threat of targeting your own Chraal, and having opponents take both fire and cold damage from the blast could serve to keep your opponent from packing up around the Chraals. The presence of two cone threats further causes battlefield finesse (or death) and so maybe this could work.
Dave
I still love running x2 Chraal warbands. What's not too like with all of the Elemental Traits, speed 8, DR, 85 hit points, and all for a cost of 35 points. IMO not too many better figures have been introduced in the last 2 sets to replace them. And they fit very well in Quad LE warbands with the many other hitter options in LE, and as discussed they seem to fit well with the Pit Fiend. But now instead of using them in a turtle / point denial strategy, I usually prefer to use them as attackers. The threat of their BW and Death Burst usually mess up a lot of movement stratageis. Â
They are good against GAS, Shadowdancers, a number of CG warbands, and CE warbands. They have the most trouble against certain LG (Couatl) warbands.Â
Back on topic, they seem like a pretty good pairing with the Pit Fiend. Throw in some Fire Resistant critters for Fireball targeting versus enemy units and it looks like a sound warband idea. Unless of course you run into a highly fire resistant warband.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
kumaiti
Warrior
201 Posts
Moscow - Russia
| | 12/26/2006 8:55 AM |
| Last sunday I saw this band winning a local tournment (not my creation):
Pit Fiend
Ice Devil
Kobold Miner
Greespawn Sneak
Kobold Monk
Mongrelfolk x2
on Tomb of Queen Peregrine
ALmost guaranteed 1st round fireball or ice storm. | |
You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM... | |
|
Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 12/27/2006 11:57 PM |
| I tried this;
Pit Fiend
Aspect of Hextor
Greenspawn Sneak
Kobold Miner x4
My Map was Dungeon of Blood (I'm sure a better map is out there.)
My goal was to garner 1st turn tile points, move my 2 fatties to a scoring tile and make the opponent come to me. I fire balled a couple of kobos en route. It is dirty point denial no doubt. I won 6 games with it, though all were against relatively new players (I was introducing point denial in a rigorously timed game). It forces opponents to face the bleak prospect of basing a beast just to score a point. I never faced a Balista nor an Archmage.
Take this for what you will. | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 12/29/2006 10:47 AM |
| Interesting strategy. I wonder if there were better choices for that same strategy than the Aspect of Hextor (not that walking up to him is a cherished thing to do).
Pit Fiend
Helmed Horror
Ghostly Consort (!)
Kobold Miner x5
Perhaps an option that would garner fewer raised eyebrows would be to use the Dragonmark Heir of Deneith instead of the Ghostly Consort.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 12/30/2006 6:44 PM |
| I still like your orignial warband idea with the Justicator but with a little twist:
Pit Fiend 105
Justicator 48
Dragonmark 34
Dire Rat 4
x3 Skeletal Warriors
The Justicator attacking at +17/+12 for 20 magic a swing looks just brutal. Plus the Dragonmark can use Protec from Energy on PF or Justicator, and then protect one or the other. With the PF & Justicator both hitting for 20 a swing, the damage can add up quickly.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 12/31/2006 6:42 AM |
| I wonder if the Dragonmark, by keeping the Justicator alive a little longer, will outperform the Zakya.
Looks like some testing will be required.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Zyla
Underboss
1186 Posts
| | 12/31/2006 2:56 PM |
| | I like the Zakya for its automatic hit and undead hate, hit, makes all undead from Sacred Watchers and even Vlaakith run in terror. | |
| |
|
mege
Sneak
67 Posts
| | 01/01/2007 8:42 PM |
| Pit Fiend
Justicator
Xorn
Azer Raider x4
random 3pt
Charge in there raiders! Only problem is non-magic damage ... but with the +5 from the pit fiend it evens out a bit. | | | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 01/02/2007 3:51 AM |
| Posted By mege on 01/01/2007 8:42 PM
Pit Fiend
Justicator
Xorn
Azer Raider x4
random 3pt
Charge in there raiders! Only problem is non-magic damage ... but with the +5 from the pit fiend it evens out a bit.
I have been thinking about the Xorn. He's an Outsider and benefits from the Pit Fiends CXF (his first attack can do 25 damage). He can burrow and set up flanking for the attackers. He's Immune Fire and therefore a candidate for being the target of a Fireball. Of course the Azer Raiders can do this also.Â
You might want to a x1 Hell Hound + x1 Azer Raider + x3 three pt fodder (better chance for getting VP's) in place of the x4 Azer Raiders & x1 three pt fodder.Â
Otherwise, nice idea / warband.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
mege
Sneak
67 Posts
| | 01/02/2007 6:36 AM |
| Thanks Sirohk - have yet to try it out though :p
Azer Fighter seems like a better choice yet, instead of the hell hound. The splash is in addition to it's attack rather than a turn using cone that the hell hound has. I originally had a few of the fighters in there, but seemed that I wanted max activations for this, since basically 4 of my units are going to charge and quite easilly die.
What I was really looking for was an effective way to give Xorn magic damage (or Chain Devil) but there just wasn't any :/ | | | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 01/02/2007 9:38 AM |
| Posted By mege on 01/02/2007 6:36 AM
Thanks Sirohk - have yet to try it out though :p
Azer Fighter seems like a better choice yet, instead of the hell hound. The splash is in addition to it's attack rather than a turn using cone that the hell hound has. I originally had a few of the fighters in there, but seemed that I wanted max activations for this, since basically 4 of my units are going to charge and quite easilly die.
What I was really looking for was an effective way to give Xorn magic damage (or Chain Devil) but there just wasn't any :/
Sadly, that's the one easy tech that LE is looking for - a low cost (5-10 pt range) spellcaster with Magic Weapon or conversely a tough and useful spellcaaster with Magic Weapon.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
Zyla
Underboss
1186 Posts
| | 01/02/2007 5:38 PM |
| I been trying something with Azer Fighters too:
Pit Fiend
Zakya Rakshasha
Duergar Champion
Azer Fighter x2
Goblin Skirmisher x2
The champion works great too support the Zakya doing 15+5 magic damage and the pit fiends own attacks, and conceal 6 helps it too survive longer. | |
| |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 01/03/2007 9:08 AM |
| How about a Gauth, parked over the Pit Fiend's shoulder? Against bands that take damage from fire, this is a real pain. Against fire-immune bands, of course, it's a waste of points.
But, if the paralysis or stun works, even once in a while, a second hitter (probably a Duergar Champion) can really take advantage of it.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Zyla
Underboss
1186 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 10:28 PM |
| I been working with something like this:
Pit Fiend
Zakya Rakshasa
Duergar Champion
Azer Fighter x2
Goblin Skirmisher x2
3 solid hitters and the azers make good pit fiend body guards or backup hitters. | |
| |
|