calvar
Warrior
226 Posts
    
 | | 12/30/2006 4:25 AM |
| | This mini looks great! what do you think its approximate stats would be? :-p | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 12/30/2006 5:33 AM |
| I haven't seen anyone take a guess yet. It's such a weird combination for skirmish play that we could get about anything.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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kritter
Underboss
1336 Posts
Calgary, Alberta Canada
| | 12/30/2006 6:18 AM |
| i am still wondering where the Beholder Lich is from. none of the books i have seen??
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Trades:
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Dargoth
Underboss
1274 Posts
| | 12/30/2006 6:25 AM |
| Posted By kritter on 12/30/2006 6:18 AM
i am still wondering where the Beholder Lich is from. none of the books i have seen??
Yeah I cant find it either, the closest thing I found is the Death Tyrant from the Forgotten realms campaign setting | |
Champion of the Zhentarim: Manshoon, Fzoul and Scyllua Darkhope | |
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roonechr
Sergeant
604 Posts
Kansas City, MO
| | 12/30/2006 6:47 AM |
| | The lack of a central eye and the dead eyestalks clearly mark it as a Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness pp. 42-44) that has made the transformation into a lich.
As for stats, it will lose the antimagic eye ability due to the loss of the central eye. I'm not sure how they will implement its unique form of spellcasting; the most obvious choice would be to simply replace the normal Beholder eye effects with different spell effects. They could also simply give it a selection of Sorcerer spells combined with dual activation. | |
Champion Of Hydras | |
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Tgt
Sergeant
574 Posts
| | 12/30/2006 7:54 AM |
| | Will it be CE or LE after becoming a lich? The 2 liches we have are CE but Beholders are originally LE. | |
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roonechr
Sergeant
604 Posts
Kansas City, MO
| | 12/30/2006 8:44 AM |
| | Hard to say; Liches don't have a specific alignment but rather generally keep the (evil) alignment they had in life. I would prefer LE. | |
Champion Of Hydras | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 12/30/2006 9:31 AM |
| | I'm going to bet it has some skirmish problems, which may be overcome with other figs. Beholders are awesome ecept there biggest weakness is no hit points. Now you take away their con score lowering their hit points even more and you have potential trouble. I'm no designer so they may have overcome this. | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2778 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 12/30/2006 10:23 AM |
| | well they have no can score but their hid dice increases to 1d12 so it kinda balances itself out | | | |
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roonechr
Sergeant
604 Posts
Kansas City, MO
| | 12/30/2006 11:58 AM |
| | As an undead it would also become fearless and as a lich it would theoretically gain DR, improved Natural Armor, and Immune Electricity and Cold to add to the impressive list of undead immunities. Of course, it is still absolutely true that not enough hit points will make almost any figure unplayable. | |
Champion Of Hydras | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 12/30/2006 4:16 PM |
| Posted By roonechr on 12/30/2006 11:58 AM
As an undead it would also become fearless and as a lich it would theoretically gain DR, improved Natural Armor, and Immune Electricity and Cold to add to the impressive list of undead immunities. Of course, it is still absolutely true that not enough hit points will make almost any figure unplayable.
All of those stats look impressive and make me frool.  But for each one I keep hearing "ch-ching" as the cost goes up and the HP are poor.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Mjollnir
Underboss
1500 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 12/30/2006 5:17 PM |
| | Does anybody remember the ghost beholder from Ruins of Myth Drannor in 2nd ed.? I know it is not exactly the same case, but we have another examble of undead beholder. Anyway in Monster of Faerûn you can find the Beholder Mage, so if it is a mage, it can have the template of lich. | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 12/31/2006 8:28 AM |
| Beholder mage template + sorc/wiz lvls + lich template = beholder lich
combine undeadness... eyestalks... dual act (?)... spellcasting and that's what you'll have... should be crazy either way... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 12/31/2006 9:43 AM |
| | Does this sound like it's going to be epic, then? It sounds like a lot of abilities for normal play. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 12/31/2006 10:18 AM |
| | Epic definately... If not right away definately as one monthly... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 12/31/2006 11:26 AM |
| Sadly, if the Beholder Lich has many of those abilities, it will likely be overcosted for 200 pt constructed play.Â
The original Beholder has a high cost, but is still playable at 200 pts, but I have usually seen it shine the most in Epic play.Â
I guess we'll just have to wait to see the stats.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 01/02/2007 4:09 AM |
| Posted By roonechr on 12/30/2006 6:47 AM
The lack of a central eye and the dead eyestalks clearly mark it as a Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness pp. 42-44) that has made the transformation into a lich. As for stats, it will lose the antimagic eye ability due to the loss of the central eye. I'm not sure how they will implement its unique form of spellcasting; the most obvious choice would be to simply replace the normal Beholder eye effects with different spell effects. They could also simply give it a selection of Sorcerer spells combined with dual activation.
I like the idea of sorcerer spells with dual activation. 'Course I like the idea of the eye rays and sorcerer spells more  . Being fearless undead and all, I join the reckoning that there will be a hefty HP price to pay.
I did have my players fight a beholder lich in a spell jammer game in realm far away but I dont think thier be much resemblence 
btw, this thread will probably phase into skirmish soon
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 01/02/2007 6:31 AM |
| | @ Bert the Troll, Wow......... thats good idea......... I like to see Dual snake Swiftness with this beast!!!!!! | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 01/03/2007 12:47 AM |
| | I doubt it will get snakes swiftness (espically if it was LE), though that would be carnage on a stick, I see more destructive potential than buffs. Hopefully doing something to the non living (unlike eye rays) to make it not be as scared of constructs as the current. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 01/03/2007 8:29 AM |
| I like to see Dual snake Swiftness with this beast!!!!!!
Dual activation and Snake swiftness is not going to happen. The Beholder Lich will definitly have damage dealing spells. I am thinking it will kind of look like the orginial beholder+green slaads spell (Random but can choose a lower spell) set up with Disintegrate and Fireball.
Think it will gain speed?? F2 is so slow. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 01/03/2007 8:43 AM |
| | No one like to dream ........ will LE get SS a day??? | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 01/03/2007 3:12 PM |
| We now have stats from the post by Shivan via Inquest:
Beholder Lich LEÂ 64 points
lvl 11
speed 4 flight
AC 22
HP 70
+3 (10)
Fearless
undead traits
unhallowed sight
"eye rays randomly cast great spells"
At least he cost less than the "live" Beholder.Â
AC 22, Undead, Fearless, looks abosolutely delicious.Â
I wonder what :Unhallowed Sight" is?Â
Plus, what are the "Great Spells" that the eye rays cast randomly? Sounds like the Green Slaads spell casting ability.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7720 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 3:47 PM |
| | Probably akin to the beholder's form of casting rather than completely random like the Green Slaad, there should be some "lesser" choices to use. | |
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Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 01/03/2007 4:20 PM |
| Probably akin to the beholder's form of casting rather than completely random like the Green Slaad, there should be some "lesser" choices to use.
Thats what I said...
Beholder Lich LE 64 points
lvl 11
speed 4 flight
AC 22
HP 70
+3 (10)
Fearless
undead traits
unhallowed sight
"eye rays randomly cast great spells"
Cool are those official stats or speculation? No dual activation? | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 7:09 AM |
| | I wonder if the regular Beholder's anti-magic ray will stunt the Beholder Lich's eye rays also, since they are basically spells. That would prevent a Beholder + Beholder Lich combo, unless you wanted to chance it each time. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 7:11 AM |
| | Since it has Speed F4, I'm guessing that means no dual-activation. Otherwise, it would be twice as fast as the living Beholder, and I don't see that happening. | | | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 01/04/2007 7:19 AM |
| Yeah but dual activation makes the regular beholder really good.
I can't wait until this set somes out. Probably because I am going through withdrawls from my "DDM buying fix" It has been since Blood War come out! | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Tgt
Sergeant
574 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 7:42 AM |
| | If the eye rays are spells, this guy may be garbage, unless the spells realy kicks ass. I mean, 19 pts less, you lose dual activation and anti magic eye, and no spell penetration for a mini who relies only on spells? Can you imagine the Archmage without it? | |
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DoD called shot: Phrenic Manticore
They´re taking the Hobbits to Isengard!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1752017962119496176 | |
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Longbow
Warrior
236 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 12:31 PM |
| I hope this guy can do something about Sacred Watchers. Could Unhallowed Sight be something like that?
I don´t know, I fear for every evil undead mini that I see because of SWs. | |
German championship 12.05.07 in Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 01/04/2007 4:47 PM |
| Unless something comes out (besides for LG) to counter Sacred Watchers, they will continue to be a pain in the back side.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 01/04/2007 6:02 PM |
| | Is very frustrating that the best undead in the game is the Sacred Watcher..... better undeads is not suposed to be Evil??? | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Longbow
Warrior
236 Posts
| | 01/05/2007 11:14 AM |
| | Yeah, those evil necromancers and evil gods should be ashamed of themselves. | |
German championship 12.05.07 in Berlin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to play DDM in Berlin, Germany? http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dndminisberlin/ | |
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