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Subject: Is The Strahd Zombie As Good As Sacred Watcher?

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Sirohk
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01/06/2007 5:52 AM  

We have the stats for the Strahd Zombie:

Strand Zombie LE

20 points
Level 6
Speed 6
AC 16
HP 40
Melee Attack +6 (10)
Type: Undead

Special Abilities:

Fearless
Plodding
Undead traits
Hard to kill 11

And the Sacred Watcher LG

18 points

Level 5

Speed F6

AC 21

HP 30

Melee Attack: +10 (10)

Type: UndeadÂ

Special Abilities:

Evil Undead Slayer: Melee damage +10 against Evil Undead enemies.

Fearless

Flight

Incorporeal

Is the Strahd Zombie as good as the Sacred Watcher.  I don't think so IMO.Â


Better HP, same damage, +6 attack versus +10, Hard to Kill 11 could make killing the Strahd Zombie hard to kill versus Incorporal, level 6 versus level 5, AC 16 versus AC21, 20 points cost versus 18 points.Â

The Strahd Zombie might be worth it if it costed say 12-15 points.Â

It just does not stack up.  I'll take the Sacred Watcher everytime.Â

For that matter, I'd take Snig and 3 Sniglets over the Strahd Zombie if I have 20 points left to spend - a good back up commander and possibly activation control.Â

Any thoughts?


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Tgt
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01/06/2007 6:54 AM  
I think Hard to Kill will probably be applied when his HP is reduced to 0 or less.
So, yes, he sucks. The Dread Warrior seems great compared to him.

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01/06/2007 7:15 AM  
It all depends upon whether there are pieces that can summon him or use him as a minion. If his 20 points don't cost anything to bring in, then he might be useful, even if he dies and gives up 20 points.

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Crystal MN, USA

01/06/2007 7:39 AM  
we won't really know until we see the entire set and get a look at those SA's.

For now though no way. The attack bonus doesn't bother me as LE has many ways to kick it up, its the AC and spd that are the clinchers. Flight is awesome and LG has many options to kick AC up.

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SYB
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01/06/2007 8:34 AM  
It all depends on Hard to Kill.

For example, Hard to Kill could be: Whenever this unit is brought to 0 hp, roll a die. On a 11+, instead of dying it is returned to any space in your starting area at full hp.

Now, he could easily be a shining piece. Also, don't forget, you need to think of pieces in relation to their faction. Undead pieces in LE can be VERY strong because there are two different pieces that exist in LE that can heal them infinitely.

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Bacho
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01/06/2007 8:43 AM  
who can do that besides the AoNerull?

Faragdar the Wise
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Albuquerque, NM, USA

01/06/2007 11:56 AM  
Posted By Bacho on 01/06/2007 8:43 AM
who can do that besides the AoNerull?
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Bacho
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Boston, MA

01/06/2007 12:01 PM  
Ah, forgot about that one.

Sirohk
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01/06/2007 4:01 PM  
Posted By Bacho on 01/06/2007 12:01 PM
Ah, forgot about that one.

An expensive Undead healer though.Â


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Nate_666
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01/06/2007 5:58 PM  
any info on plodding?

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greyhaze
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01/07/2007 8:40 PM  
the zombie sucks compared to the watcher as you've pointed out. hard to kill (whatever that ends up being) can't make up for speed F6, incorporeal and +10dmg to evil undead. plodding will more than likely make it worse.


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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

01/07/2007 10:29 PM  
Im agree with greyhaze, Stradh zombie seems to be inferior to the WONDERFULL Sacred Watcher....... Incorporeal and +10 damages againts evil undeads is really invaluable Skills.....

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
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Uekzw011
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01/08/2007 1:43 PM  

In short, no.Â

Best case scenario for the Strahd zombie, let's assume hard to kill would be equivalent to incorporeal in that it would generate hitpoints x2 and furthermore assume the presence of the grim necromancer cfx for the Strahd Zombie. Then effective stats in summary would be:

Strahd Zombie LE
20 points
AC 16
HP 80
Melee Attack +10 (10)

Sacred Watcher LG
18 points
AC 21
HP 60
Melee Attack: +10 (10)

Under these assumptions the Strahd Zombie might be comparable to the Sacred Watcher against the average target. Of course, Evil Undead slayer would still allow the Sacred Watcher to cut the Strahd Zombie into tiny zombified pieces. To make up for this we might also assume that "plodding" is a good ability which would allow the Strahd Zombie to, say charge with the power of a runaway train wreck, pushing back all units of equal or smaller size the charge hits, allowing it to continue its charge until it misses an attack. Perhaps then the Sacred Watcher and Strahd Zombie would be of comparable worth.

Problem is these best case assumptions would seem chancy at best. Considering what other posters has written here, more likely "hard to kill" is inferior to incorporeal. Furthermore the presence of a Grim Necromancer can hardly be relied upon and likely plodding is an ability which weakens the Strahd Zombie. I'd expect "hard to kill" to generate perhaps 10 hp on average, presuming it will deflect a killing blow for 20 damage 50% of the time, meaning the Strahd Zombie would have equivalent to 50 hp. Then a comparison would look something like this:

Strahd Zombie LE
20 points
AC 16
HP 50
Melee Attack +6 (10)

Sacred Watcher LG
18 points
AC 21
HP 60
Melee Attack: +10 (10)

The Sacred Watcher would in this case seem to easily dismiss the Strahd Zombie in head to head combat relying on its base stats only. (With the Sacred Watcher's Evil Undead Slayer there would be no contest at all.) So no, the Strahd Zombie would not seem comparable to the Sacred Watcher in any way. Rather the Strahd Zombie would seem fairly close on the power curve to recent, similarily costed undead such as the Terror Wight or the Skeletal Reaper. Pieces which one would be inclined to characterize as fairly mediocre. 


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greyhaze
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01/08/2007 1:55 PM  
The mobility of the Sacred Watcher with Flight and Incorporeal are also a huge advantage. Unless plodding also allows the Zombie to move through walls and enemies to gain flanking positions -


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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

01/09/2007 7:31 AM  
I think that the key is the Strahd's "Undead Torch", something like (Ally Undeads gain +4 Attack and +5 Damage when attack living enemies). Its can gives +10 (15) to the Stradh zombie. Im not sure that podding is an advantage........ sounds like an disadvantage.....

In all the cases I think that incorporeal, Flight and Evil Undead Slayer, is very superior to hard to Kill and Zombie poor stats.

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board
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greyhaze
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01/09/2007 8:58 AM  
The Undead Torch will more than likely only target one ally.


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greyhaze
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01/18/2007 1:27 PM  
Plodding: from the Ravenloft Campaign

Means you can not double move. That is all. You can still move and attack however.


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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

01/18/2007 4:12 PM  
Damn........ thats soo bad........ so bad, Thanks GreyHaze for the info but at last....... Sacred watcher is more supperior to Strahd Zombie....... I hate to see evil undead defensless against this stupid sacred watcher......... que mal........ thats bad....

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
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Sirohk
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01/18/2007 5:04 PM  
Posted By greyhaze on 01/18/2007 1:27 PM
Plodding: from the Ravenloft Campaign

Means you can not double move. That is all. You can still move and attack however.

Wow.  That really turns the Strahd Zombie into a turd if that is what "Plodding" is.Â

Sacred Watcher still rules!Â




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01/18/2007 6:49 PM  

i think that we are comparing the wrong things here.

shouldnt we be asking, is a strahd zombie as good as a skeletal reaper?

now, thats a much better debate, since everyone who can read can tell the sacred watcher is much much better than either of t hem


both lvl 6 spd 6 (plodding) vs spd F6 ac 16 vs 17 both 40 HPs AB +6 vs +7 each 10 damage strahd zombie has hard to kill vs skeletal reapers devastating attack, seem pretty equal, both pretty weak when you can find cheaper figures with better attacks


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Lima, Perú

01/18/2007 11:21 PM  
my vote are for the sacred watcher, Snig give better options and activation control for the same cost.

If you want to make zombie strahd better you need to invest 35 points in Grim necromancer, not a good idea. If you want to use Grim Necromancer and use it Spell to summon undead Sacred Watcher is the better option than zombie.

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greyhaze
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01/19/2007 7:14 AM  
Posted By PDK on 01/18/2007 6:49 PM

shouldnt we be asking, is a strahd zombie as good as a skeletal reaper?

now, thats a much better debate, since everyone who can read can tell the sacred watcher is much much better than either of t hem


That's fair, but I don't see anybody using the skeletal reaper either.


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01/19/2007 9:34 AM  
I have a feeling they will be collecting dust with the skeletal reapers. I mean anyone need the most broken creature I will trade you the 7 I have unopened.

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01/19/2007 12:53 PM  
Posted By greyhaze on 01/19/2007 7:14 AM
Posted By PDK on 01/18/2007 6:49 PM

shouldnt we be asking, is a strahd zombie as good as a skeletal reaper?

now, thats a much better debate, since everyone who can read can tell the sacred watcher is much much better than either of t hem


That's fair, but I don't see anybody using the skeletal reaper either.


that was pretty much my point

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