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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
    
United States
 | | 01/07/2007 6:02 AM |
| Had fun with these bands last night, went 2-0 versus a Storm Silverhand band (had Storm Archer, Wand Expert, Elf Dragonkith and more).
Kolyarut x2
Maug
Cleric of Order
Sacred Watcher x2
Timber Wolf
Jozan
The dual Kolyarut really does a good job enervating the enemy in the early rounds. Two Sacred Watchers
did a great job serving as screeners, by the time they took enough hits to actually fall, the Maug had already pounded quite a few times, and the Kolyaruts had had time to engage.
The first time I ran it, it was a little different.
Slayer of Domiel
Kolyarut
Maug
Cleric of Order
Sacred Watcher x2
Timber Wolf
Human Commoner
This one was fun too. My opponent had a Harmonium Guard (who turns out to be a lot tougher than you'd otherwise expect), but the Slayer killed him for 54 points and that basically made the game for me.
Of the two, I like the dual Kolyarut band better, but the Slayer is a tough one to drop just because of the weird threat she offers.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Mortusbard
Sergeant
427 Posts
North Carolina
| | 01/07/2007 8:07 AM |
| | I have been trying since underdark to get a dual slayer band going. I think it is an underated piece if played right. | |
Unto Death We Strive,
From Birth unto the Dust, | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 01/07/2007 12:11 PM |
| I really like the Kolyarut.Â
I have just not found the right warband combination in LG where I like him the best.Â
Furthermore, I've found that more than one seems to be overkill. Their Attack bonus is a little low and only 10 damage does not compare to other beaters out there. So two of those in your warband (and taking up 90 points) does not seem to make a whole lot of sense, especially since their Enervation Ray only does -2 ATT and -2 Save. Now if it had also done -5 damage, then the Kolyarut would rock. As it is you need to add Aramil to get hat effect.Â
That's my $0.02 worth on the Kolrarut.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/07/2007 12:54 PM |
| Here's what I noticed. The Kolyarut, Maug and Sacred Watcher all have AC 21. After getting enervated, that's effectively a 23 AC. And, barring a Kord or Marut, there are a lot of things that will occasionally miss a 23 AC these days.
It's true that I wouldn't have needed two Kolyaruts to pull this off, provided that I have the luxury of targeting the pieces I want to target with the enervation. But, it sure was frustrating for my opponent to hack through fearless hit points on all my hitters, especially with the Sacred Watchers screening away so many hits thanks to incorporeal.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/07/2007 1:06 PM |
| Hmm, now I'm thinking...
Purple Dragon Knight
Kolyarut
Maug
Sacred Watcher x2
Earth Shugenja (!)
Aramil
Human Commoner
(An alternative is to swap the Earth Shugenja for another Sacred Watcher and Aramil for a Lantern Bearer.)
If Aramil's and the Kolyarut's nerf beams stack (and I haven't seen anything yet to indicate they won't), then an enemy beater is really bummed. The Earth Shugenja can provide magic weapon for the Maug and a Sacred Watcher or two, and then, hopefully, stick around to deliver some healing to the PDK.
The PDK should be able to get his cone off through his front-line attackers before engaging.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Bacho
Skirmisher
10 Posts
Boston, MA
| | 01/07/2007 2:35 PM |
| | Im a real fan of the half-orc paladin plus sacred watchers/kolyaruts. Add a maug, say, and you have some really dangerous fearless hitters, who are all doing an additional +5 dmg per hit. The sacred watchers provide easy flanking bonuses, further allowing you to land those attacks versus even higher AC's. Lastly, the threat of the enervation ray and the mobility of the sacred watchers give you some battlefield control, somewhat mitigating the slow speed of the half-orc. The only issue there is that the lay on hands ability of the HO pal ends up only being useful for himself, but oh well. His Cmdr effect is put to good use with the rest of the units present. I also dig the Purple dragon knight idea. | | | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 01/07/2007 2:38 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 01/07/2007 1:06 PM
Hmm, now I'm thinking...
Purple Dragon Knight
Kolyarut
Maug
Sacred Watcher x2
Earth Shugenja (!)
Aramil
Human Commoner
(An alternative is to swap the Earth Shugenja for another Sacred Watcher and Aramil for a Lantern Bearer.)
If Aramil's and the Kolyarut's nerf beams stack (and I haven't seen anything yet to indicate they won't), then an enemy beater is really bummed. The Earth Shugenja can provide magic weapon for the Maug and a Sacred Watcher or two, and then, hopefully, stick around to deliver some healing to the PDK.
The PDK should be able to get his cone off through his front-line attackers before engaging.
Dave
I really like the PDK with all the Fearless hitter in front of it, coning through them, then joining the fray as a front line hitter. Definately nice.Â
How about another twist:
Kolyarut 45
Maug 41
Maug 41
Maug 41
Cleric of Yondalla 14
Mialee 6
Warforged Scout 8
Man @ Amrs
200pts, 8 activations 2 Magic Weapon spellls for the Maugs. 4 Fearless attackers that can do a lot of damage. Use the Kolyarut at the rear to do some nerfing of enemy attackers. CoY for some map choice and intitative wins.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Bacho
Skirmisher
10 Posts
Boston, MA
| | 01/07/2007 2:54 PM |
| 3 maugs might be 1 maug too many. It's really tough to get that many large bases to bear in an effective manner. It sure is brutal though! The biggest problem I see with the maugs is their slightly lower end attack rating. I think the best thing to do is to get two good maugs in the action along with magic weapon and bless, and then use the koly to nerf the opposition somewhat. A sacred watcher would work wonders in screening the medium speed maug's from enemy missile fire while you bring them up to start hurting stuff. Additionally, the sacred watcher would let you hunt fodder or screen your kolyarut from missile fire while he enervates (if you can consider any of the inevitables a "he"). The kolyarut is a really cool unit and contributes nicely no matter how many maugs you want, however. | | | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 01/08/2007 6:04 AM |
| Posted By Mortusbard on 01/07/2007 8:07 AM
I have been trying since underdark to get a dual slayer band going. I think it is an underated piece if played right.
Mortusbard - give it time. The Slayer *will* have her day, trust me. In some future expansion, LG will get some sort of tech that will increase the Slayer's utility tenfold. I'm not sure exactly what it will be, but probably something that allows you to move the Slayer into position for the kill exactly when you want it. In some sense, it's possible with the War Weaver... just hop her into flanking and get your kill... but the distance is so short at this time.
Although that *does* sound like a fun combo, eh?
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
424 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 01/08/2007 10:18 AM |
| Does the -2 on saves from the Kolyarut also work on the DC15 check for falling into a pit? If that made it effectively DC17 then that is mean.
I was thinking Koly + 1 or 2 Thunder tusks on Frostfell Rift (map made for pushing). One-hit kills can ruin a players day. With a Couatl you get to 175/4 Doesnt leave much room for a CR to help with the TTC saves, but the snakes swiftness on the Tusk for extra pushback, or near the end on the koly to let him heal again can be good.
Not a lot of mention about the hold monster spell. Enervate and the try to hold a front line beater. A free two or three double damage hits (from a Maug or Tusk) can do wonders.
This weekend, I used it on Efreeti (two hits to kill from Maug) and FGFP - One hit from Maug, then won init and got 3 more hits (based on moved up maug). Sadly, FGFP failed the save again and opponent conceded.
When paired with the Slayer, if you can hold and then let Slayer flank, she will get a huge chance to kill for double points. So Koly, Slayer, Couatl, SWatcher. The weakness is no one doing more that 10points per attack in normal attack vs planty of pieces doing 20+. | |
Champs 2007 Top 16, Team Amish Class of 2007
Seeking Northern NJ DDM'ers - "There can be only one" (I hope not)
Champion of the Doppleganger | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/08/2007 11:08 AM |
| Posted By tundrin on 01/08/2007 10:18 AM
Does the -2 on saves from the Kolyarut also work on the DC15 check for falling into a pit? If that made it effectively DC17 then that is mean.
Effectively, yes. The -2 on saves applies to the creature's saves, and not to any DCs it has to save against, so, in effect, it makes the save versus the pit harder.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 01/08/2007 12:35 PM |
| Building on the ideas presented by a number of different posters in this thread, how about this build:
Cleric of Yondalla
Couatl
Kolyarut
Thundertusk Cavalry
Maug
Warforged Scout
Mialee
200 points, 7 activations
Some serious hitting power now but at the cost of having 7 activations and having a weak commander. This means less choice on maps and a risky morale save for the Thundertusk. I would guess that Frostfell Rift would be the map of choice but I suppose Drow Outpost could also work.
Another option would be to drop the Thundertusk in favour of another Maug and an 8th activation. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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calvar
Warrior
226 Posts
| | 01/08/2007 2:50 PM |
| How about
Couatl
Marut
Kolyarut
Dwarf Artificer
Mialee
Timber Wolf
Aasimar Fighter
Man at Arms
I have used it with some success, but it hates open spaces and Archmages. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 01/08/2007 3:19 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 01/08/2007 11:08 AM Posted By tundrin on 01/08/2007 10:18 AM
Does the -2 on saves from the Kolyarut also work on the DC15 check for falling into a pit? If that made it effectively DC17 then that is mean.
Effectively, yes. The -2 on saves applies to the creature's saves, and not to any DCs it has to save against, so, in effect, it makes the save versus the pit harder. Dave
Now that makes the Kolyarut a little bit more useful (not that it wasn't already).Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 01/08/2007 4:49 PM |
| I came up with a good one last night and then promptly got my butt kicked by it
Maug
Maug
Kolyrut
Hammerer
Village priest
Mialee
Dwarf Artificer
WF Scout
The Village priest is the "weak link" here. Doing some fun subbing you can get a Harmonium Gaurd instead and get those AC's up even higher. One Kolyrut is enough as is two maugs... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/09/2007 6:23 AM |
| I've tried the Village Priest a few times and I always find it lacking. For me, it's just too hard to protect. Here is the conclusion I reached:
1) If you don't protect the Village Priest, your opponent will take him out, and you lose important support (and morale checks and rally checks). So, failure to protect is not an option.
2) If you do protect the Village Priest, you have to hang back, and this alters your engagement strategy, and against most bands these days, if you don't set the engagement tone, it gets set for you, and that's usually to your detriment. So, protecting the piece is also not an option.
Therefore, I don't use him anymore.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 01/09/2007 7:16 AM |
| I have similar thoughts about the village priest and while he's been considered for some of my warbands has never made the cut. I was thinking the same way as you until I realized that most of the usefulness of the Village Priest is used up by the time he activates in the second round.
By that time, he will have cast bless and MW and you will have already rolled for map, side and the first two initiative rounds. After that, do you really need him? Sure, CR3 instead of 0 for initiative is good, but you never have to make morale saves on any of your hitters and his cure spells are best used on himself anyway since he can't use them on the constructs.
I say let him fend for himself. If my opponent wants to commit a piece to taking him out (which would be pretty easy) so be it - one less piece in the melee. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 01/09/2007 12:47 PM |
| | Me too.this creature is very,very competitive.Even more:some people say she really works well against the gargantuan/colossal dragons.The only one way to defeat them? | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 01/12/2007 9:24 PM |
| in the warband listed above the only critters making moral saves are the dwarf artificer and the warforged scout... neither which are integral to this band winning... the dwarf pays for himself after round 2 and if he makes it to a victory area or if your opponent has a construct thats just gravy... warforged scout is the same... after round 2 who cares...VP himself is round 2 and done... i keep trying to sub him out for either harmonium gaurd or downgrading to cleric of yondalla but that extra +1 from bless really rounds this band out too much to be denied... your other option is the aasamir favored soul and you get more mw and illuminator too...
VP doesn't fulfill the role of a commander. He buffs for two rounds and gives you a cmd rating other than none... if an opponent wants to take him out he/she can but at the risk of losing a lot since that is attention away from the maugs and kolyrut... a lot of construct protected hp and dmg... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/13/2007 7:29 AM |
| Yeah, the Village Priest with a bunch of undead and constructs isn't as much of a weak link--if he dies, he dies. But, if that's the way I feel about a piece in a band, I'd rather find something else to put in there. Something that could maybe generate some damage, or be better as a tech/synergy piece.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
424 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 01/15/2007 1:11 PM |
| I went against a variation last night:
Koly x 2
Cleric Yondalla
SWatcher x 3
Maug
I had a sort of quad LE band Mezzo, LGD, Efreeti, Dark Naga + fodder
The SW'ers came out in front and he stayed pretty well spread out, so I didnt want to waste spells on incorp failures. The pairing of the koly's works nicely in that when properly positioned, you can Enervate a piece, then try to paralyze in one pair of activations.
With one Koly you have to wait until his turn comes back up, and by then opponent may have put in another screener or moved the enverated piece away, or based the Koly etc.
The efreeti got Held, then hit 2x, then I lost init and he was finsihed off.
The Naga als got the same 1-2 shot and failed, then un-held but by then I hold racked up 9 1's and multiple incorp misses.
The Koly is also a PITA to take out if you base him with AC<20. You need to swarm around one and do >>20hp to him each round. Next time I face one, I will either ignore it for as long as I can, or pile everything on it. | |
Champs 2007 Top 16, Team Amish Class of 2007
Seeking Northern NJ DDM'ers - "There can be only one" (I hope not)
Champion of the Doppleganger | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 01/15/2007 1:28 PM |
| | Buff with its own enervation ray, sheild of faith, and/or divine protection and that ac skyrockets fast... its amazing how easy it is to get LG ac's up these days... yet few bands really really feature it. I don't mind a cleric of Yondalla variation either... i made a big list of bands on another thread about a week ago under my "game of the week" type thing | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 01/15/2007 2:19 PM |
| Posted By tundrin on 01/15/2007 1:11 PM
The pairing of the koly's works nicely in that when properly positioned, you can Enervate a piece, then try to paralyze in one pair of activations.
With one Koly you have to wait until his turn comes back up, and by then opponent may have put in another screener or moved the enverated piece away, or based the Koly etc. Yep. When I played two of them, my opponent was really not happy with the combo.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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