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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
    
Wadsworth, OH
 | | 02/05/2007 4:48 AM |
| Has anyone done any testing with Storm and Multiple Xen'driks? This was the band I ran last night during the Superbowl.
Storm Silverhand
Half-Ogre Barbarian
Xen'Drik Champion x5
Xeph Warrior
my buddy played:
Moon Elf Fighter
Shadow Dancer x4
Gnome Trickster
Elf Warrior
Timber Wolf
Xeph Warrior
Which now that I look at it has too many activations. Oh well. Thats what we get for building warbands while watching football.
Anyway, I lost map initiative and we ended up playing on the Keep of the Fallen Kings. This match was a pretty solid victory for the Xen'driks. Storm was able to finaggle a LOS to the majority of my buddy's warband for a first round confusion. All four Shadowdancers failed their saves, so this certainly skewed the results. However, we did notice that the Shadowdancers had a hard time delaing with the multiple threats the Xen'Driks posed. They would defensive roll one of the 15 point skirmish attacks, but then two more would force a morale. With multiple hitters and the ability to concentrate fire on one or two Shadowdancers a round, they fell kinda of quickly. Also, on that map at least. Using the large based Half-Ogre and one of the Xen'driks I was able to cut off a lot of the access to my commander. Really only one or two Shadowdancers would be able to get to her at a time, and unable to flank. After seeing this match, despite the way confusion kinda messed with the results, I'm leaning towards the fact that Shadowdancer bands really suffer against multiple threats. This could have been common knowledge already however.
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 02/05/2007 4:59 AM |
| I think some folks aren't testing such bands simply because they lack that many Xen'driks. I might have 3 myself, but I don't have 5.
That said, I think that there's some strength in the band, unless you're facing something that the Xen'driks might miss with their highest attack, and that could deal 25 or more points to them, fairly easily, in one hit.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 02/05/2007 6:33 AM |
| Try this band with Xen'driks:
Dragon Totem Hero
Cleric of Corellon Larethian
4x Xen'drik Champion
(can't remember the last two filler pieces)
...and run it on King's Road. It's a great warband/map combo!
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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kumaiti
Warrior
201 Posts
Moscow - Russia
| | 02/05/2007 9:28 AM |
| Is it just me that finds the Skirmish ability on the x'endrik kind of strange: it works only on melee, even though the same ability with the same name works both on melee and ranged on the ogre skirmisher.
The XC would be a wonderful figure if skirmish worked on ranged too... | |
You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM... | |
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HidesFromHurricanes
Warrior
289 Posts
| | 02/05/2007 9:41 AM |
| Posted By nycfarmkid on 02/05/2007 8:39 AM
So what do you think would be a better build? The original one, or this variant?
Storm Silverhand
Bralani Eladrin
Xen'drik Champion x4
Aramil, Adventurer/Greycloak Ranger
Xeph Warrior/Timber Wolf minion
I'm leaning towards the first one, since it has more threats, but the Bralani is a very useful figure.
I'm thinking the Bralani build is better as you can use the Whirlwind blast to set up another round of skirmish attacks for the Xen'driks.
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Bloodwars Called shot (vindicated) Demonic Gnoll Adept/Priestess
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tundrin
Sergeant
424 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 02/05/2007 9:53 AM |
| Hmm - I would be careful about reading too much from a single match between these sets.
Better positioning or a won init roll for the moon elf band woudl have alloed no los for confusion, or an invisibilty casting on the band (also for no los)
My preferred build (with only 8 activations ;o) , uses Timber wolf and Devis.
An invisible timber wolf moves up for victory points, and in the future for a helpful flank.
the invisible Devis moves up when you set up for a MC forcing attack on somone (so they are no longer fearless from storm)
An invisible dancers move up to surround storm (when properly played, the moon elf uses his CFX to get all 4 dancers attacking at once.
If necessary, the gnome moves in first to slide storm into a better spot for flanking.
The 4 dancers then attack, all at +15 for 20 damage.
all of this is well posted to date, my point is that you got two good breaks (los, initiaive and confusion) that certainly helped from the outset.
Swapping out a xendrik for a gnome of your own, to let the xens move up for better initial skirmish attacks of their own might be helpful. Depends on map and opponent.
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 02/05/2007 3:21 PM |
| Posted By nycfarmkid on 02/05/2007 4:48 AM
Has anyone done any testing with Storm and Multiple Xen'driks? This was the band I ran last night during the Superbowl.
Storm Silverhand
Half-Ogre Barbarian
Xen'Drik Champion x5
Xeph Warrior
my buddy played:
Moon Elf Fighter
Shadow Dancer x4
Gnome Trickster
Elf Warrior
Timber Wolf
Xeph Warrior
Which now that I look at it has too many activations. Oh well. Thats what we get for building warbands while watching football.
Anyway, I lost map initiative and we ended up playing on the Keep of the Fallen Kings. This match was a pretty solid victory for the Xen'driks. Storm was able to finaggle a LOS to the majority of my buddy's warband for a first round confusion. All four Shadowdancers failed their saves, so this certainly skewed the results. However, we did notice that the Shadowdancers had a hard time delaing with the multiple threats the Xen'Driks posed. They would defensive roll one of the 15 point skirmish attacks, but then two more would force a morale. With multiple hitters and the ability to concentrate fire on one or two Shadowdancers a round, they fell kinda of quickly. Also, on that map at least. Using the large based Half-Ogre and one of the Xen'driks I was able to cut off a lot of the access to my commander. Really only one or two Shadowdancers would be able to get to her at a time, and unable to flank. After seeing this match, despite the way confusion kinda messed with the results, I'm leaning towards the fact that Shadowdancer bands really suffer against multiple threats. This could have been common knowledge already however.
You are missing one other variant:
Storm 57
x4 Shadowdancers 112
Gnome Trickster 27
Xeph 3
199 points, 7 activations.Â
With Storm the Shadowdancers are Fearless when in CFX. And Invisible Shadowdancers are just plain deadly.Â
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 02/05/2007 3:50 PM |
| | Assuming you hadn't managed the confusion shot on your first turn, how were you planning to survive the Shadowdancers? All they need is one slip where Storm is too close to a wall--then all 4 Shadowdancers strike her while invisible (90% chance to hit) and in one phase, she's dead. What's worse, if your opponent is patient enough to wait until late in a round to do that, you'll have activated at least some of your Xen'driks, limiting your ability to strike back. With Storm gone, you'll be lucky if you win initiative again, and even with AC 20, conceal 6 and enough hp that it takes a min of 2 hits to force morale and 3 to die, I think your Xen'driks would have been in really serious trouble vs. the Shadowdancers. Did you always manage to block enough squares with the Half-ogre that 4 dancers couldn't have all attacked? | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 02/05/2007 4:09 PM |
| I've run:
Storm Silverhand (57 - 57 - 1)
Xen'drik Champion X6 (23X6 - 195 - 7)
Timber Wolf (5 - 200 -
The Xen'drik tend to do pretty well. However, the band has some vulnerabilities:
1.)  AoOs from Xen'drik Champions are for 5 damage. People have little trouble ignoring that damage, so Storm is often hard to protect.Â
2.) Once based, the Xen'drik can't stand that much damage. Even when fearless, they tend to die fast.
3.) Being level 9, the Xen'drik are not as desperate for Storm and her fearlessness. They hold it together pretty well most of the time. You might be better off with a commander that gives them more of an advantage, such as a Brass Samurai (Whirlinding for 15), Dragon Totem Hero (move 2 and attack for 15 on each strike), or Moon Elf Fighter (All Xen'drik moving and attacking before a foe can respond)... I like 5 Xen'drik, Moon Elf fighter and Inspring Marshall + Warlock for an intereting combo... I find it can go in, eliminate a foe and withdraw all the units without letting the enemy get in and get position.... That tends to be a very useful ability. I've been able to eliminate Kord with this tactic without Kord getting a chance to respond...
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 02/05/2007 4:30 PM |
| I'll give a little more detail as to how I protected Storm, and the flow of the battle. I hope this helps:
I was generally able to keep Storm's back to a wall in every round of engagement. I also did not only use the Half-Ogre, but some of the Xendriks as well for this. I set up such that there was no access to storm on the assembly square. I did move Storm out into the open for that first round confusion, however the gamble paid off. She would probably have been hit hard if it hadn't. However, even then, I had her back to the edge of the map and I moved the Half-Ogre beside her to cut off two squares of attack and eliminate the possibility of flanking.
At this point the confusion really saved me, as the shadowdancers just sort of stood there. If they had all saved they might have been able to get to Storm for the kill. I didn't count the squares exactly, but it may have been the case where the movement needed for LOS to a wall space may not have allowed all of the Shadowdancers to get to Storm that turn. If I had decided not to use Storm's confusion I could have advanced more cautiously and provided coverage for Storm.
At the beginning of the second round two Xen'driks and the Half-Ogre were blocking off access to Storm, who's back was on the edge of the map. The other three were out in front, poised to try to take out his invisibile wolf that was parked on the victory area/ Part way through the second round, before I moved Storm, my buddy decided it was better to try to do some damage to my front running Xen'driks than wait for me to open up an avenue to Storm. I was planning on using the three Xen'driks to grab points and force my opponent to attack with some/all of his dancers. He decided it was more important to do some damage to my front Xen'driks than wait for me to leave Storm open to multiple dancers. Once they activated I double-moved Storm up with her back against a wall and put the Half-Ogre beside her again to stop any flanking. Only one Shadowdancer was still invisible, and it was confused on the starting tile. This was again very helpful, but 20 points of damage wouldn't have doomed Storm.
The next round was going to be ugly, almost every figure was in the center of the board. One Xen'drik was surrounded by two dancers and the wolf tile grabber. My other Xen'driks were slightly clustered around the victory areas, with two helping guard acces to Storm. I won initiative and moved Storm up with her back against a wall, beside a friendly Xen'drik who was unhurt, and diagonal to the Xen'drik who was surrounded by dancers. I think I suprised him by targeting my own flanked Xen'drik with the Silver fire line. I hit two of his dancers, the gnome trickster, and his Moon elf with that line. So again Storm was guarded from flanking, and the threat of the invisible shadowdancers was pretty much past. He ended up killing my one Xen'drik that round, but not before I had killed one dancer, routed another, and routed his Moon Elf commander. That third round was really the decisive one.
SYNOPSIS: Early on I used a few friendly pieces, most noticibly the Half-Ogre, and positioning against walls, to help protect Storm from multiple invisible Shadowdancers. The dancers faced the choice to drop invisibility and engage my front-running Xen'driks, or wait for me to leave Storm open. They chose to engage the Xen'driks. This allowed me to use walls, and a single friendly piece, to avoid flanks on Storm for the remainder of the match. This would have been a different game if there was no first round confusion, however I think I could have done a decent job of guarding storm with the fearless units that all required three 20 damage hits to kill, thanks to Storm's commander effect. The Shadowdancers did not stand up well, once engagement occurred, to 15 damage attacks from 5 sources, one 20 damage attack, and Storm's line effect for 20. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 02/06/2007 6:07 PM |
| [note]I haven't read the previous post yet.[/note]
I was thinking of using both Shadowdancers and Xen'driks in a band.
Bralani Eladrin
Storm Archer
Shadowdancer x2
Cleric of Corellon Larethian
Xen'drik Champion x2
Timber Wolf
But, I don't think there's enough staying power in any of the pieces. If the tricky finesse stuff doesn't work quickly, I'd be toast.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 02/06/2007 7:42 PM |
| That was my worry too. I could swap a piece for another commander (my inclination was to go with IM). Or, I could swap two pieces for Storm, but I've been kinda bored of making up Storm bands lately.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 02/07/2007 5:18 PM |
| Yeah, casting spells isn't going to work so well if you're trying to stay invisible, and saving the invisibility for too long means you probably won't get it to work. Tough call.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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