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Subject: Unhallowed analysis so far [spoiler, kinda]

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Lord_rock
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02/18/2007 9:56 PM  
Was originally going to post something about hits misses and creeps but I'm sure we'll see that when the full stats hit so I'll save it for then.
So far I see a few pieces that are going to change things up.

High inquisiter: not a garuntee to shake things up but looks like a contender.  Slow speed and mid-high cost are concerns as is atts. Played well I think it's viable.

Large Black: Why is CE getting more moral boosts!!! something like "when this creature activates all routing allies W/I line of site may attempt to rally immediately" or "adjecent allies who fail a moral save may take 10 dmg and may attempt to rally again" or even "allies who fail moral saves move only thier speed (not double)".  Anything but another moral bonus.  In a good package too.  Good piece though, will see play.

Large Brass: Storm with Dragonkiths new best friend, if the points are right (should be around 45-50 like the black).  Sleep cone and fire line rock and misdirection should be good good fun with conceal! The dragons are all looking viable now.

Virtous Charger: CG is really going to Guerilla tactics.  Finally! Excelent piece.  Much like the Nomad Charger though it needs att help.  Thank god it doesn't have powerful charge and mounted att. Ohh wait, CG can give it Powerful charge for 9 pts!!! What!!! read on.

Wild Elf Warsinger: I am praying for a misprint on the cost.  I'm thinking it might be 19 not 9.  9?!?!?!? aura of fear 2, auto damage to undead each round, and powerful charge +10 to your warband! I cry undercosting! Powercreep!something!

Ultraloth: I'm so happy I play LE most.  Now I have another reason to.  -15 to dmg is crazy! Dominate is cool, unlimited scorching rays is great too! Cmd 5, ac 21, 80 hp, lvl 12, yugoloths get hide, everyone is always under command! [repeat last sentance from previous paragraph] Definatly going to make a showing in LE.

SkyFire Captain: Wow again.  CG just got the ultimate in support.  Those augmentations make any other viable piece amazing.  Someone already pointed out that Todek is back on the block now: no auto loss to storm, extra att, and an extra 5 dmg.  Wow again.  Or how about Kord? Stormrage shambler? Frenzied berserker? any of them.  Prepared for battle is perfect.  I hope some of the lesser casters get some of this in the future (maybe one instead of two though). Cfx lessens assination too. well played.

Misses: gravetouched ghoul (still not enough, closer though), strahd zombie (without plodding it would have probably worked), Gorgon (70pts!!!).

Other solid pieces: Marid, canoloth, Devourer, Bone Naga, thrall of blackrazor, vampiric dire wolf, Blessed hunter, bugbear gang leader, devotee of silver flame, greypeak goblin archer (volly rocks)
Still waiting on a ton of excellent pieces as well.  Wow.  This could be the best skirmish set so far the way things are looking.


Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

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Utah

02/18/2007 10:16 PM  
Posted By Lord_rock on 02/18/2007 9:56 PM

Wild Elf Warsinger: I am praying for a misprint on the cost.  I'm thinking it might be 19 not 9.  9?!?!?!? aura of fear 2, auto damage to undead each round, and powerful charge +10 to your warband! I cry undercosting! Powercreep!something!





I noticed this one too, it seems amazing, we need confirmation now!

"Like a thief in the Night"




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Utah

02/19/2007 12:22 AM  
I just got confirmation that those stats for the WIld elf stand... its probably the best 9 point fig ever!

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02/19/2007 2:44 AM  
reminds me of a conversation i had a lil while back about powercreep where some idiot tried to claim that it was a myth and made up in our minds. 

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02/19/2007 3:22 AM  
Nope, the creep in this set makes the Underdark pieces seem like sissies.

I totally concur on the Large Black's bonus.

The Skyfire guy is silly good.
Warsinger boggles the mind. Well we wanted a Wardrummer for CG, and got 1 cheaper and in a much more available rarity slot.

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London

02/19/2007 5:28 AM  
The Bat familiar; looks playable.
For 6 points you get an extra activation (above 8 ) and one of your spellcasters can cast a touch range spell, as far as the bat can fly.

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Crystal MN, USA

02/19/2007 7:02 AM  
I'm still not sure about power-creep, but the set makes me re-evaluate that's for sure.

the high inquisitor will be interesting to test. He seems better suited to LE which is fine for me.

The ultraloth looks crazy nice. It'll be interesting to see how he pans out. His role is either split between damage or support, making him a bit schizophrenic.  Cheaper commanders in the faction provide points spent with more defined roles. ultimately I think his telepathy ability will put him over the edge, but i'm a little dissapointed with telepathy as it further dumbs down the game.

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Lord_rock
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Portland OR

02/19/2007 9:40 AM  
You said it alright, definatly re-evaluating power creep.  I spoke of long long ago and was ok with how things were over the past few sets as long as things didnt progress.  But they are now... wow.  Wild elf warsinger 9!!! Ultraloth 62! Large black 44! there are others too but those seem to be the bigger ones that caught my eye.  Devotee of the silver flame and bat familiar also really shake things up at the bottom end.  And we have seen only two thirds of the sets stats so far.Â

"as it further dumbs down the game"

I see that as a problem too.  Ultraloth is a prime example.  Fortunately I like that ability in LE.  It lets creatures go out hunting on thier own.  LE has a lot of tricks that this turns into treats.  figs with executioners blade can now go out and find those enemies out of command and do something about it.  The canoloth pulled in by the Ultraloth is a great hunter piece.  Good ability in LE but Id be very warry of it elsewhere.  CE is getting way way dumbed down though.  They now can have +6 to moral saves with no commander! NUTS! CRAZY! thats dumbing the game down.  LE can only get that with Tyranical moral and if you fail your save your dead.  Whats the draw back to this?
Posted By djtool on 02/19/2007 7:02 AM
I'm still not sure about power-creep, but the set makes me re-evaluate that's for sure.

the high inquisitor will be interesting to test. He seems better suited to LE which is fine for me.

The ultraloth looks crazy nice. It'll be interesting to see how he pans out. His role is either split between damage or support, making him a bit schizophrenic.  Cheaper commanders in the faction provide points spent with more defined roles. ultimately I think his telepathy ability will put him over the edge, but i'm a little dissapointed with telepathy as it further dumbs down the game.





Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

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Crystal MN, USA

02/19/2007 9:59 AM  
as i posted on the evil neighbor. Its kind of a shame that telepathy falls into the faction that already has great access to constructs and undead. I would have preferred to see that ability in CG, but you can't do that now with forest terrain, fly, and units like the charger.

As I also said though. Ultraloths commander effect could have been the telepathy SA and no ones opinion of the guy would change.

Seeing as how i'm the champion of the longest of longshot's...I'm a little pleased that some precident has been set for it at least.

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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

02/19/2007 10:34 AM  
No support for LE faction........ soo sad........ Other set that LE dont take advantages...... sad soo sad

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02/19/2007 1:15 PM  
Bone Naga is an awesome caster. Ultroloth fills the commander/hitter/tech role in a single piece. Pretty nice aquisitons, if you ask.

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02/19/2007 1:22 PM  
Posted By Ryoga on 02/19/2007 10:34 AM
No support for LE faction........ soo sad........ Other set that LE dont take advantages...... sad soo sad

Yup.  No major support for LE yet again.  So many nearly viable figures and no Magic Weapon for them.Â

But LE does get some other BUTT KICKING figures in Unhallowed.Â

Duergar Slaver with 1 casting of Invisible.  
Beholder Lich is really solid.Â
Devourer is awsome.Â
Nessian Warhound is a beast.  
Large Ice Elemental looks to be solid.  
Blood Golem of Hextor was pretty tough in sealed. 
Gorgon is pretty solid.  

and

Ultraloth might be the next best commander to hit LE.  He looks awsome and his abilities are very strong.  

 

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02/19/2007 1:26 PM  
I like the Large Black Dragon´s morale bonus even if it´s bland. This means I can use a weaker commander and don´t have to take the Wardrummer. I feel I still need a commander because of rallying and initiative. LBD and Wardrummer alone don´t cut it, IMO.

The two Dragons seem to be priced very good (if Brass is similar). Finally some worthy Dragons.

Wild Elf Warsinger is crazy for the points, what were they thinking? Powerful Charge for allies in Line of Sight, urgh...

Ultroloth seems OK to me, he´s not too cheap for his abilities, IMO.

Crazy thing is I don´t need a new set. To me Bloodwars is still fresh and exciting. I wish they wouldn´t release three sets a year.

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Crystal MN, USA

02/19/2007 2:00 PM  
LE recieved some psuedo-support.

By providing a couple undead figures that don't suck (at least seem not to), any creature that inflicts wounds can function as a healer.

the bat can deliver an inflict spell or a magic weapon spell. Although I don't see the bat having a large impact in LE except for multi HH bands, where it effectively increases the 'speed' of the band by allowing 2 horrors to go out hunting right away.

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Adelaide

02/19/2007 2:11 PM  
No undead made it to the 'oh my gawd' list. Dang.

I'll wait before crying out power creep. Similar reactions always at start of a set release until its played and seen how good it is in practice.
It is nice to see competive looking dragons IF that takes power creep to get dragons viable.. well....

Still got three weeks before offical release.

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02/19/2007 2:48 PM  
Posted By Sirohk on 02/19/2007 1:22 PM
Posted By Ryoga on 02/19/2007 10:34 AM
No support for LE faction........ soo sad........ Other set that LE dont take advantages...... sad soo sad

Yup.  No major support for LE yet again.  So many nearly viable figures and no Magic Weapon for them.Â

But LE does get some other BUTT KICKING figures in Unhallowed.Â

Duergar Slaver with 1 casting of Invisible.  
Beholder Lich is really solid.Â
Devourer is awsome.Â
Nessian Warhound is a beast.  
Large Ice Elemental looks to be solid.  
Blood Golem of Hextor was pretty tough in sealed. 
Gorgon is pretty solid.  

and

Ultraloth might be the next best commander to hit LE.  He looks awsome and his abilities are very strong.  

 


I almost agree with your list... but the Beholder Lich is lacking. A 10 dmg only inflict; and a 15 dmg spell (if you save that´s 5). Any construct will ruin his day even more than for the old Beholder. Anti magic eye beats the hell out of unhallowed sight. DK´s Beholder is totally worth the extra cost when compared to Beholder Lich. Also, Nessian Warhound doesn´t look impressive. Sure, tons of HP, but a single attack fire-dependant and not magic. Low damage breath. There are sure better options for 62 pts.

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Crystal MN, USA

02/19/2007 3:24 PM  
I"m not certain about the beholder lich yet. I wouldn't throw him under the bus though.

vs. undead:

beholder lich - %100 chance to potentially cause a detirmental effect
beholder - %60 chance (telekinesis is too situational, i.e. pits)


vs. constructs

beholder lich - %100 chance to do something detrimental (chill touch or the curse)
beholder - %60 chance again


also the lich is fearless, still has lvl 11 for making saves, and can be healed.

I'd also like to throw out one more thing, what does have an advantage over constructs? Very few figures. every time you play a beholder, an unit that does elemental damage(so many resists out there), a unit with a lower level, etc. you take your chances.



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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

02/19/2007 3:43 PM  
Hey what about EPIC Stradh? Sounds good............. but I have a question.......... gaseouse form works all the time???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Save 13, AC 25, Spd 6, HP 150,
Melee +21/+16 (20 + Life Drain),
CFX: Routing creatures get Speed +4. WARBAND BUILDING: Undead of any alignment are legal in your warband.

DR5, Fearless, Domination [][] (replaces attacks; range 6; living creature becomes part of this creature's warband; DC20; this is a Dominate effect), Gaseous Form (immediate; if this creature is reduced to 0 hp, this creature appears with 10 hp in any victory area within 6 squares; if no victory area is within 6 squares, or if this creature is within a victory area when reduced to 0 hp, this ability has no effect),
Immunities Cold, Electricity
Life Drain 20 (If target is a living creature, this creature gets +20 hp [maximum 150 hp])
Undead Traits

SPELLS
3rd - undead torch [] (range 6; target Undead gets damage +10 against living creatures); 4th - bloodstar [][] (sight; living creature takes +10 damage each time it takes damage; DC16); 5th - night's caress [] (50 damage to living creature; DC 17; or Undead creature routs as if successfully turned); 5th - telekinesis [] (sight; slide target creature up to 3 squares; DC17, allies may voluntarily fail save); 6th - revive undead [] (immediate; range 6; remove 50 damage from target Undead creature)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

02/19/2007 3:44 PM  
Any one knows Blood Golem Stats???
And GreyHaze Thanks for you incredible spoilers........

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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

02/19/2007 4:42 PM  
EPIC Ultholoth sucks.........

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The Fortress of Solitude

02/20/2007 8:50 AM  
Posted By PDK on 02/19/2007 2:44 AM
reminds me of a conversation i had a lil while back about powercreep where some idiot tried to claim that it was a myth and made up in our minds. 


You should bet this guy $10/game and play 10 straight games against him. His warband has to be Harbinger, and yours Unhallowed. After that, he'll shut up.

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Finland

02/20/2007 9:21 AM  
Posted By Ryoga on 02/19/2007 4:42 PM
EPIC Ultholoth sucks.........


How does it suck? you know its stats?

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Finland

02/20/2007 9:28 AM  
BTW how did Dominate work?

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02/21/2007 2:47 PM  
It's an attractive-looking set, IMHO. I absolutely love the Virtuous Charger- Enhanced Mobility 12 ... and Skirmish? The low attack bonus shouldn't be much of a problem- a piece like the Aasimar Favored Soul can boost the bonuses by 2 with Bless and Magic Weapon, and if you include her with Storm (which I'm sure many will), you're also looking at having the benefits of Flight as well.

I could go on like this all day, but I'll save some room for everyone else to comment.

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Lord_rock
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02/21/2007 7:47 PM  
So i'll talk about duds next I guess...

Pentifax Monolith: um... at least the epic version could rock... seriously though, without a huge shift to undead in the meta one att isn't squat! The options of the soulmelds are awesome but the base package is lacking! One, low dmg, attack and really nothing else spectacular. Makes the Dragon born look really good! even +9/4 for 10magic would have made this piece a possible close. Adding Soldier or Gaurd at the end of its name would have helped too. wow... so far away. Chaos bane and ghost touch make it closer again but the base just doesn't cut it!

Phalanx Soldier: um... what??? Sure it could hit for +7 for 40dmg in large numbers... those numbers would also cost over 100pts... and not everyone of them would hit that hard. low ac too... non impressive ac (even with phalanx fighting)... Set against charge will never happen!!! and at 18 ac (with phalanx fighting) an orc champ doesn't need the extra +2 to really put the hurt on it anyway. Set against charge should have been something like "figs who move 4 or more and attack take x dmg if they end movement within this creatures reach", maybe even save for half if you think thats too powerful. Not impressive.

Knight of the Chalice: just not impressive in any way shape or form. Am I missing something???

Dwarf Battlerager: not a huge fan of the sculpt nor the stats... seems like it could have been so much cooler! Definately not spikey enough! Pretty close though really, AC is killer killer killer. Why are dwarves, the most armored of the humanoids, ac's in CG so low??? Dwarf barbarians can and should wear medium armor! Savage frenzy +10 would have made this piece pop since the ac is so low. Actually... I may have talked myself into this piece... almost i guess instead of dud.

Cleric of Sune: i don't think that humanoids are going away any time soon... even with all the undead and constructs out there now. Storm kinda counteracts that. If the CFX would have been allies only I could expect to see this piece played alot. Might even have become the de-facto commander for dual berserker. Damn it!!! with that realization I think i talked myself into this one too! Great under the right circumstances. Close otherwise.

Beholder lich: Spells only! The assortment chosen was poor. Chill touch will be useful yes but wiht your primary 3 spells doing less than 20 dmg and two of those save for half for 5 you're not really getting much output out of your 64pt mini. Lots of good undead resistances and lvl and hp but output is lacking. Sure if you roll high your in good shape but inflict should have been 15pt save for 5 and vampiric touch should have been 20dmg save for 10. Curse is powerful as is finger of death but banking on those is less useful. Close close close.

Nessian Warhound: less than 2:1 hp ratio on a hitter with no other protections (dr, sr, extra res) with a double dmg from cold doesn't cut it. Moderate dmg on a decent save area affect with a single att doesn't cut it either. Non-magic dmg and fire dmg also lessen effectiveness. At 52 you might play this guy at 62 I just don't see it. 10 fire dmg, magic dmg, better extra protections, 10 extra hp, aura of fear, fearless would have all been appropriate and maybe made this fig workable (not all at once of course).

Strahd Zombie: basically take away plodding and add 5 hp and we'll talk.

Torturer: Not as much of a dud as a WTF. Lots of gimmicky stuff. at 27pts though not really reliable. If you get bloodlust off and are facing Good, sneak att-able, living opponents you'll be in good shape. The SoulKnife infiltrator is 3 less and much more desireable in my opinion. Close, but odd (and bad sculpt).

Grave Touched Ghoul: Not impressed in the least and the sculpt isn't much better. It is powerful if it work. For it to work it has to a) live, b) hit, c) selective opponent, d) opponent must not save, e) what else can you get for 23 in CE??? Needed to go bigger or less. Just in the middle doesn't cut it for a failing faction.

Intellect Devourer: Not sure what I was expecting but I don't think this was it. Not sure. Not a dud, not a close, just odd... hmmm...

Large black dragon giving +2 moral saves: Dumb CE down a little more will yah! They don't need a real commander now. Not at all. Nope. Another static moral bonus. Why is CE getting another moral bonus... Makes no sense. How about take 10dmg and make another rally check when adjecent or w/I 6? How about Creatures in LOS make an immediate rally attempt when this creature activates??? Anything but another static bonus. Enforcer could have been so much more, so much more in faction flavor... dud...

Capped Hp: lots of figs with gain hp and they will only be able to use it once or twice a battle. how about capping the max hp they can get at, at least as much as they can drain in one att above thier max (+15 for strahd for example, 5-15 for beholder lich, 10 for blood golem, ect)... that was the problem with many early "Drainers" and remains the same today (bargast as the exception and it made that piece worthwhile in its day when played right). More problematic with higher cost figs obviously... but still doable without much change (would any of those changes make any of those figs broken??? not by my estimations).



Wild Elf Warsinger: yes, a dud I say! I will say probably the next banned figure! +10 dmg to engagement round by you're whole warband (in LOS of course because thats so hard to get) in a 9pt figure! And you get more too! Auto Dmg to undead within 6! Either one of these is easily worth 9pts... ohh yah and aura of fear... and +8 for 10 dmg! What the F really... really really... 19 is much closer. That might be enough.

So, only 3 real duds in the bunch. A lot of close, WTF, and huh??? Wow... Great set overall.

Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

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02/23/2007 5:45 PM  
Sculpts and paints...

Unlike the last set... It does not appear that there are any standout WTF's on paints and sculpts...

Grave Touched Ghoul: a little alien looking...perhaps not human enough really. Same pointy head as the stone giant

Stone Giant: love everything but the odd shaped head. I don't mind it... it doesn't bother me as much as others but the overall is great.


Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

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Portland OR

02/23/2007 6:11 PM  
Sculpts and paints...

Unlike the last set... It does not appear that there are any standout WTF's on paints and sculpts...

Grave Touched Ghoul: a little alien looking...perhaps not human enough really. Same pointy head as the stone giant

Stone Giant: love everything but the odd shaped head. I don't mind it... it doesn't bother me as much as others but the overall is great.

Large Black: Pose is nothing special. Getting a bit tired of the large dragons having the "kiss the godfather's ring" limp paw though. Paint looks good.

Blessed Hunter: a little boxy and a lot of overhang. Not bad though.

RedSpawn Arcanis: would have been better without the mace and buckler. Otherwise okay.

Torturer: The fat man is starting to grow on me actually.

Nessian Warhound: Hoping for better in person. I just don't get the advanced hellhound feel from this guy. Disapointing.

Gorgan: too feline, not bull enough. paint looks okay too, pose looks like a pouncer not a charger. Not special enough for a classic.

Displacer beast: he is a beast... I like it other than the humanish hand. I'm sure it'll look great in hand.

Devourer: not sure... need to see it in person...

Air Mephit: just blah... can't really see though

Cleric of Sune: Probably the mini that will most depend on paint job and in person to tell.

Just like the stats... No real losers here... 1 dud

Love: Strahd, Bone Naga, astral construct, asura, pentifax monlith, Ice Elemental, Sheild Gaurdian

Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless
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Forums > Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures > D&D Minis 2.0 Skirmish Discussion > Unhallowed analysis so far [spoiler, kinda]



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