Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
    
 | | 03/16/2007 11:58 AM |
| I've been away from the truly competitive scene for a while and here localy it seems we've missed on something completely, "Shoadowdancers"! I've seen all sorts of talk on the bords about how strong the CG Shadow bands are and so on but haven't seen any of the builds. What so tough about them? I looked them over when they first came out and they don't seem so amazing to me. Can someone clue me in on what I've missed? What's the best build? How does it work? What map does it work best on and so on?
Thanks in advance. | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 03/16/2007 12:30 PM |
| I'm personally scared of invisi-dancers. Something like this is very tough to compete against:
49 Moon Elf Fighter
112 Shadowdancer x4
27 Gnome Trickster
06 Devis
05 Timber Wolf
An invisible Shadowdancer attacks at +15 and does 20 magic damage to anyone that can't see it and is vulnerable to sneak attack. (only +13, as normal, if the target has blind-fight, or an extra +2 with flanking help) That means this band can start by going invisible. Then, when the timing is right, it can use tactics to let all four dancers shadow jump into range of your most vulnerable/valuable unit and thwack it. You could lose an 80 hp unit in the blink of an eye, unless you're lucky with your opponent's die rolls. If you were relying on a commander for support, it might be gone--no more commander effect and no more commander rating. What's worse, because of defensive roll, at least one of your reply attacks against each dancer misses. That means you'll be lucky to take out 2 with your reply attacks. Now you have 2 - 4 Shadowdancers in the midst of your formation, so in the next round, if you blink, you might have another hitter gone from the table, or they might shadow jump away if they have a commanding lead on points. The Moon Elf might almost be able to come in and mop up by herself. | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/16/2007 12:40 PM |
| At XP a couple storm versions showed up (1st and 2nd) not sure their exact warbands but they included Storm + 3-4 Shadowdancers. I would do something like this:
Storm
Shadowdancer x4
Gnome Trickster
Xeph Warrior
199/7act
I have personaly used the MEF, 4 Shadowdancers, Gnome Trickster, Devis and Timber wolf warband and it is very good. It is a very solid warband. Though I had a problem making 8+ morale saves which cost me a tournament win, normally it wouldn't be too big of a problem. So if that scares you then play a Storm version and laugh at morale saves. | |
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 03/16/2007 12:45 PM |
| | While the Moon Elf version lets them use tactics, I think the Storm band is a little stronger as it makes the Dancers fearless and you add in Storm's Countersong and it helps against any commander that might survive the initial onslaught. | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/16/2007 12:48 PM |
| While the Moon Elf version lets them use tactics, I think the Storm band is a little stronger as it makes the Dancers fearless and you add in Storm's Countersong and it helps against any commander that might survive the initial onslaught.
I totally agree....do you guys still try and fit 4 dancers and trickster, leaving only 7 activations?? | |
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 03/16/2007 1:00 PM |
| | Yeah, the band that Aron ran at XP only had 7 activations. | |
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 03/16/2007 2:16 PM |
| I prefer the Moon Elf version myself. I like waiting until the opponent has activated a little bit of his main people the tactics and jump the 4 dancers into position to eliminate a creature, defense roll until the next turn, double move moon elf fighter into the battle and then tactics all of the dancers away or onto another unit. If they kill 2 units this way you can jump away and just play point denial for a win. The storm version has its advantages because of her spells, silver fire, and fearless on the dancers.
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 03/16/2007 2:48 PM |
| | That amazes me that it does so well. Are Firegiant Forgepriests not getting much play out in the competitive world? Locally I can't get away from them and it seems to me that even the dancers wouldn't do so well against the big guy. What about GAS? 25AC with +15 to hit is still tough. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 03/16/2007 2:56 PM |
| Posted By Myth Master Jr on 03/16/2007 2:48 PM
That amazes me that it does so well. Are Firegiant Forgepriests not getting much play out in the competitive world? Locally I can't get away from them and it seems to me that even the dancers wouldn't do so well against the big guy. What about GAS? 25AC with +15 to hit is still tough. Against GAS, the Shadowdancers have a decent chance of jumping into positions to surround the Young Master and assassinate him (assassinating the commander of an assassin band, that's class). Then the Gith Monks ain't so tough. And, since they can defensively roll away from the Gith Monk attacks, the Gith Monks have to be very careful about their autohit. Even if they attack Storm, so long as she's invisible, the auto-attack is only 50% likely to work.
Additionally, if she gets her confusion off early and manages to nab a couple of Gith Monks, there's a chance they'll be trouble (if I'm playing against GAS with Storm and I get to control a Gith Monk, you can be 100% certain I'm using up the auto-crit on someone, and burning up a Stun attempt in the process).
Against the FGFP, the Dancers take out Urthok early, and then when the FGFP is down to 50% hit points, it's a 50% chance at morale. If he loses, the LE band is toast. If he makes it, then the battle rages, but at least the Dancers have a chance.
Dave
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 03/16/2007 5:23 PM |
| Nice 7000 post count !
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 03/16/2007 6:23 PM |
| At XP the top two Shadowdancer bands both used Storm I believe.Â
One used 3 Shadowdancers + Wizard Tactician (Paupers warband) and the other 4 Shadowdancers (Arons warband).Â
The other two top warbands were also Storm warbands and both with Archamges.Â
There were two FGFP warband in the final 8Â I believe.Â
And I fully agree even with Unhallowed, Shadowdancer warabnds are very strong and will show up at many Qualifiers.Â
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 03/16/2007 10:36 PM |
| | Why does unhallowed make them stronger? It seems to me that Unhallowed will make Forgepriest tougher by giving him Ultraloth as a tougher commander and some better options for support. | |
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 03/17/2007 4:56 AM |
| well he said *even* with unhallowed. which means there wasn't any one T1 piece that will show up so much there's no point in running a dancer band.
Dancers are extremely tough mostly because of defensive roll. they have the capability of jumping in and attacking with little chance of taking damage themselves. Add a base +13 attack on top of that and its getting pretty nasty.
I would favor the MEF build as it gives you the opportunity to take a piece out early. Although I would also consider just going commanderless and maxing out dancers with a gnome trickster. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 03/17/2007 6:06 AM |
| Consider the following (mentioned and dicussed elsewhere):
MEF 49 pts
x4 Shadowdancers 112 pts
Gnome Trickster 27 pts
Wild Elf Warsinger 9 pts
Xeph 3 pts
200 pts, 8 activations
Lots of potential for activating with LOS from the Wild Elf Warsinger to gain Powerful Charge (+10 dam) from her War Song. An invisible Wild Elf Warsinger with LOS to the Shadowdancers and with Shadow Jumping can potentially set up some nice charges and ideally try and get the sneak attack in as well.Â
Just for reference, per Guy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=804884):
"The Wild Elf Warsinger needs line of sight to the ally for that ally to benefit.
The ally does not need to have line of sight to the Wild Elf Warsinger for that ally to benefit."
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CSchroder
Sergeant
416 Posts
| | 03/19/2007 9:51 AM |
| Yes, both Shadowdancer warbands used Storm because 1) she makes them fearless and 2) she can give them flight if you happen to be playing on the Grotto. Aron's warband took down Chad's top (7-0) FGFP warband in the top 8 while Pauper took out the 2nd top warband, which may also have been a FGFP warband. Dancers do well against most titans.
Tried and I took our StorMage warbands against the Shadowdancer warbands in the top 4 but we both lost our map rolls and the Dancers ended up winning. In the mirror matchup, Aron's extra Dancer ended up being better than Pauper's Wiz Tact. | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
425 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 03/19/2007 10:18 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 03/17/2007 6:06 AM Consider the following (mentioned and dicussed elsewhere): MEF 49 pts x4 Shadowdancers 112 pts Gnome Trickster 27 pts Wild Elf Warsinger 9 pts Xeph 3 pts 200 pts, 8 activations Lots of potential for activating with LOS from the Wild Elf Warsinger to gain Powerful Charge (+10 dam) from her War Song. An invisible Wild Elf Warsinger with LOS to the Shadowdancers and with Shadow Jumping can potentially set up some nice charges and ideally try and get the sneak attack in as well. Just for reference, per Guy ( http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=804884): "The Wild Elf Warsinger needs line of sight to the ally for that ally to benefit.
The ally does not need to have line of sight to the Wild Elf Warsinger for that ally to benefit."
So you invis everyone to get the almost auto sneak attack damage form the first onslaught.
Then you can pull the dancers back and have them powerful charge other pieces.
Nifty.
All that said, it is still a tough call of Storm vs Moon Elf as the best pilot for the Dancers.
Storm gives them fearless, has the auto 20 damage line, heal, confusion, flight, countersong and a ranged attack.
I wonder if there were any Moon Elf bands in the qualifier?
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Trebuchet
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 03/20/2007 6:55 AM |
| | Does anyone know what map is usually used to get the most benifit from Shadow Jumps? | | | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
425 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 03/20/2007 7:22 AM |
| I think Dragon Temple because there are plenty of walls and posts to jump between, all the elemental protection areas (since they dont have any energy damage) This was key in XP final, as FGFP then needs three swings to kill a Dancer.
Mithril mines and Drow outpost are also good.
Outpost gives people a false sense of security - as you leap over the trench to get at their commander, but they have a bottleneck to walk towards yours.
Mithril just has tons of jumping places. | |
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 03/20/2007 7:52 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 03/17/2007 6:06 AM Consider the following (mentioned and dicussed elsewhere): MEF 49 pts x4 Shadowdancers 112 pts Gnome Trickster 27 pts Wild Elf Warsinger 9 pts Xeph 3 pts 200 pts, 8 activations Lots of potential for activating with LOS from the Wild Elf Warsinger to gain Powerful Charge (+10 dam) from her War Song. An invisible Wild Elf Warsinger with LOS to the Shadowdancers and with Shadow Jumping can potentially set up some nice charges and ideally try and get the sneak attack in as well. Just for reference, per Guy ( http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=804884): "The Wild Elf Warsinger needs line of sight to the ally for that ally to benefit.
The ally does not need to have line of sight to the Wild Elf Warsinger for that ally to benefit."
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 03/20/2007 8:24 AM |
| I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.   | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3463 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/20/2007 8:31 AM |
| Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:24 AM I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.  Â
But that can't be done, because the warsinger needs LoS to the shadowdancer to get her powerful charge in effect.
D. | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 03/20/2007 8:49 AM |
| Actually, there's a way to do it, but it takes someone with illuminator:
57 Storm
12 Lantern Bearer
27 Gnome Trickster
74 Shadowdancer x3
11 Hero of Valhalla
09 Wild Elf Warsinger
I'm not saying this is a great band. It just illustrates the idea. You can use the invisibility sphere, but keep your guys within range of the Lantern Bearer (yeah, weird idea, I know). Then the WEW will be able to see them when they activate, but as soon as they leave the range of illuminator, they get all the benefits of invisibility again. That allows 30 damage charges from the Shadowdancers. | |
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Winner, WBC X | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 03/20/2007 3:25 PM |
| Posted By Myth Master Jr on 03/20/2007 7:52 AM Posted By Sirohk on 03/17/2007 6:06 AM Consider the following (mentioned and dicussed elsewhere): MEF 49 pts x4 Shadowdancers 112 pts Gnome Trickster 27 pts Wild Elf Warsinger 9 pts Xeph 3 pts 200 pts, 8 activations Lots of potential for activating with LOS from the Wild Elf Warsinger to gain Powerful Charge (+10 dam) from her War Song. An invisible Wild Elf Warsinger with LOS to the Shadowdancers and with Shadow Jumping can potentially set up some nice charges and ideally try and get the sneak attack in as well. Just for reference, per Guy ( http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=804884): "The Wild Elf Warsinger needs line of sight to the ally for that ally to benefit.
The ally does not need to have line of sight to the Wild Elf Warsinger for that ally to benefit."
Oddly, the map I might try is the Dungeon of Blood - lots of open area in the middle for charging lanes, and lots of walls for Shadowjumping.Â
Of course the Dragonshrine would work well also.Â
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Knight of the Rahshasa's
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 03/20/2007 8:06 PM |
| Posted By Dordledum on 03/20/2007 8:31 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:24 AM I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.   But that can't be done, because the warsinger needs LoS to the shadowdancer to get her powerful charge in effect. D.
Very true. Still doesn't answer my question. How important is the trickster over a 5th dancer? | |
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gregorkhan
Sneak
86 Posts
| | 03/20/2007 8:47 PM |
| Posted By tundrin on 03/20/2007 7:22 AM I think Dragon Temple because there are plenty of walls and posts to jump between, all the elemental protection areas (since they dont have any energy damage) This was key in XP final, as FGFP then needs three swings to kill a Dancer.
Mithril mines and Drow outpost are also good.
Outpost gives people a false sense of security - as you leap over the trench to get at their commander, but they have a bottleneck to walk towards yours.
Mithril just has tons of jumping places.
Four swings for the FGFP to kill a 'dancer. One of the hits is a defensive roll.
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 03/21/2007 3:14 AM |
| Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:06 PM Posted By Dordledum on 03/20/2007 8:31 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:24 AM I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.   But that can't be done, because the warsinger needs LoS to the shadowdancer to get her powerful charge in effect. D. Very true. Still doesn't answer my question. How important is the trickster over a 5th dancer?
To try and answer your question, from what I've seen, being invisible allows:
1) Walk in to set up flanks and save a Dimension Hop for later escape
2) Better chance to set up flanks (especially where there might be no walls)
3) Ability to go after a certain figure that your opponent might be trying to protect
That's the best I can come up with, from someone who's only watched Shadowdancers.Â
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Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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TLorin
Sneak
80 Posts
Madison, TN
| | 03/21/2007 6:29 AM |
| How do Shadowdancer's do if forced off a wall map onto something like King's Road (however, they get auto-use of sneak attack in the trees?)? With Shadowdancer's so competitive, how many current warbands could make the switch to a wall-less map without hurting their own strategies too greatly? Both the Moon Elf and Storm have good commander ratings, so they always have close to or greater than 50/50 in choosing map, but how vulnerable are these bands without the ability to shadowjump basically at will? | |
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Michael
Warrior
256 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 03/21/2007 6:42 AM |
| What do you mean by "auto-use of sneak attack in the trees", TLorin? I was thinking it was for the "hide" ability, but that would only work for ranged sneak attacks, I believe. Invisibility through hide won't work for adjacent creatures, right? I'm a little confused. Another question regarding the Dancers: Is it legal to move a number of spaces, then shadow jump and move the last remaining spaces (example: move 2 squares, jump, move 6 squares, attack)? May I use two jumps per phase/during one activation of the Dancer?
And can someone tell me where to get the Dragon Temple map? I have a number of fantastic location maps but can't find it there.
Thanks.
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TLorin
Sneak
80 Posts
Madison, TN
| | 03/21/2007 6:52 AM |
| I asked it as a question because I am never sure of how things work in the trees, so I am sure you are right (ahh, hide is non-adjacent). Â If the Shadowdancer's don't get to sneak attack unless they can set up a flank, this type of map might be good to look at for those bands vulnerable to Dancers.
I can't answer all of your questions, but you can only use one swift action per turn, so no they can't jump twice. | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
425 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 03/21/2007 7:06 AM |
| Posted By gregorkhan on 03/20/2007 8:47 PM Posted By tundrin on 03/20/2007 7:22 AM I think Dragon Temple because there are plenty of walls and posts to jump between, all the elemental protection areas (since they dont have any energy damage) This was key in XP final, as FGFP then needs three swings to kill a Dancer.
Mithril mines and Drow outpost are also good.
Outpost gives people a false sense of security - as you leap over the trench to get at their commander, but they have a bottleneck to walk towards yours.
Mithril just has tons of jumping places. Four swings for the FGFP to kill a 'dancer. One of the hits is a defensive roll.
And in those four rounds, you are swarming him and making at least 2 or 3 flanking attacks at +15/20magic
Looking at some recent constructed reports, looks like it is almost all Dancers and FGFP's.
The Large Black Dragon might be a great anti-dancer piece. F10, Auto damage, 20damage per swing, 90hp to get through, with a decent commander he's gonna have a good MC also.
Not so great agaisnt the FGFP though. | |
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JohnnyFive
Warrior
207 Posts
| | 03/21/2007 3:03 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 03/21/2007 3:14 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:06 PM Posted By Dordledum on 03/20/2007 8:31 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:24 AM I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.   But that can't be done, because the warsinger needs LoS to the shadowdancer to get her powerful charge in effect. D. Very true. Still doesn't answer my question. How important is the trickster over a 5th dancer? To try and answer your question, from what I've seen, being invisible allows: 1) Walk in to set up flanks and save a Dimension Hop for later escape 2) Better chance to set up flanks (especially where there might be no walls) 3) Ability to go after a certain figure that your opponent might be trying to protect That's the best I can come up with, from someone who's only watched Shadowdancers.Â
Not to state the obvious, but as previously discussed, Invisibility also allows for Shadowdancers to benefit from their Sneak Attack damage without flanking, so using a fifth Shadowdancer would require considerably more planning in order to optimize your damage output. | |
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TLorin
Sneak
80 Posts
Madison, TN
| | 03/21/2007 4:09 PM |
| Posted By JohnnyFive on 03/21/2007 3:03 PM Posted By Sirohk on 03/21/2007 3:14 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:06 PM Posted By Dordledum on 03/20/2007 8:31 AM Posted By bshugg on 03/20/2007 8:24 AM I'm curious about how important the gnome trickster is.  My original testing band ran a 5th dancer in its place.  Now with the Warsinger in the band you can get the 20 damage on the charge rather than needing the invisible sneak attack.  Of course a 30 damage sneak attack/charge would be even better.   But that can't be done, because the warsinger needs LoS to the shadowdancer to get her powerful charge in effect. D. Very true. Still doesn't answer my question. How important is the trickster over a 5th dancer? To try and answer your question, from what I've seen, being invisible allows: 1) Walk in to set up flanks and save a Dimension Hop for later escape 2) Better chance to set up flanks (especially where there might be no walls) 3) Ability to go after a certain figure that your opponent might be trying to protect That's the best I can come up with, from someone who's only watched Shadowdancers. Not to state the obvious, but as previously discussed, Invisibility also allows for Shadowdancers to benefit from their Sneak Attack damage without flanking, so using a fifth Shadowdancer would require considerably more planning in order to optimize your damage output.
Thanks!
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 03/21/2007 4:42 PM |
| Posted By TLorin on 03/21/2007 4:09 PM
I have a question and this topic touches on it a lot, so I am sure someone knows the answer. Generally, invisibility is dispelled when a creature attacks or casts a spell. So when an invisible creature with sneak attack attacks someone, like the shadowdancer, does the invisibility wear off before she gets her bonus damage, or does she get her bonus damage the turn she attacks while invisible?
Thanks!
I was going to ask the same thing. How does being invisible give the sneak attack damage? As soon as you attack you are no longer invisible and since there is no flank, how do you get the sneak damage? | |
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 03/21/2007 4:48 PM |
| Never mind, I answered my own question.
Melee Sneak Attack: This creature gains the listed bonus on melee damage if it is flanking the defender, or if the defender is stunned, helpless, or unable to see the attacking creature.
Since the defender can't draw LOS to the Dancer at the start of the Atk, he gets the sneak damage. | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7720 Posts
| | 03/21/2007 5:21 PM |
| | Not only that, but if you decide to use the "reroll" ability of the Goliath Barbarian, it resets all of the conditions of when they made their first roll. So, they still get the +2 from the invisibility on their reroll. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 03/22/2007 3:21 AM |
| Its really what makes Invisible Shadowdancers so strong. Four of them walking in and all swinging for 20 damage the first round of engagement is a possible 80 damage. The following round a potential 80 more, then use Defensive Roll and Shadowjump away. Not too many figures can stand up to that.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:04 PM |
| | Okay guys I'm back again with more questions. I played the Storm version at the tournament last week and got third because I lost my last match and Tie Breakers went against me. I was 2 - 1 and undeafeted until then. I lost because of 1 thing, morale saves. Even with Storm how do you get her to keep up with the dancers if you face a band that isn't built around a titan? For instance, I lost to a CG wizard build that used 2x Corm Wizard, Storm, Pent Monolith, Deneith Bodyguard and filler. I almost had storm out but she made her save and got healed by lightning bolts. needless to say I failed the morales and ran right off the board because I couldn't get my storm up quick enough. My first thought is that the Moon Elf band would be better because I could have finished Storm off by getting the other dancers in. That may have been the case, but the Corm Wizards would have then routed all the dancers and game over even quicker. Thoughts? | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7720 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:18 PM |
| I'm confused, are you saying both you and your opponent were playing storm silverhand?
Jockeying for position is hard, but when you're facing mages that have a max range of 18, it shouldn't be that hard to keep your dancers under command with the right moves - it's even easier if you use the gnome trickster.
All I have to say is: thank goodness that the shadowdancers can at least be chased off. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:27 PM |
| | Yes, we were both using Storm as our commander. He was playing a mage band, though. I was using the dancers. I won init, made the dancers ivis and moved the xeph to VP area. I was playing on Dragon shrine and started on fire res side. He was a smart opponent and moved out very slowly and stayed near the exit while keeping the caster as close together as possible. Shadowdancers are completely new to my area so I took everyone by surprise and LOS was something even the best players were having trouble with as it pertained to the dancers shadow jump. You just never new were I'd place them. Well for my second two activations I managed to jump right in next to his storm and get off two 20 damage attacks (total 40 damage) but his storm saved. His next move was to use his cormyrean war wizards to lightning bolt through my 2 dancers into His storm (thus healing her) and forcing morale right next to the exit. Needless to say I failed both and bye-bye dancer 1 and 2. Next round I moved in dancer 3 and 4 and did 40 more to His storm but at this point it was a lesson in futility. He routed another with the pentifex and I barely got the 4th one out alive. Before I could even activate and move my Storm up I had already lost 3 Shadowdancers. | |
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Steven C Johnson, LGS Administrator
All Gamers of Any Sort are Welcomed!
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7720 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:02 PM |
| Well, it sounds like it was part bad matchup and part impatience.
Considering you had invisibility I would have just moved from VP area to VP area playing keep away, since you had superior speed (from the sounds of it) you should have had first round VPs which means you're in the lead and it forces him to come to you. Then when you move in to strike, make sure you base more than 1 spell caster to lock em all down. Or better yet, play keep away, kill a "little" guy out of position and then play more keep away.
It's also hard to analyse warbands without the exact list of what was used. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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