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Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/20/2007 11:53 AM
I had been construct an warband taht is compoused by Ultroloth-4x Duergar Champions, I have test this warband about 12 times and I NEVER lost!, I test remplacing an DC by Canoloth but i dont have good results. I test against Marilith -Vlakith builds > Ray of enf is great againts marilith, his damage output falls to 50%... great!, high save of ultroloth give a really good chance to save lich Queen spells and paralisis. Frenzied-Tricker builds > Invisible frenzieds is a great challenge to ultroloth, but I keep ultroloth protected and my duergar obligate frenzieds to attack... ultroloth fall in the frenzieds casting ray of enf and his attack bonus fall at teh point that the second attack miss all the time... great! but big deal Multi-Hitter CE (Orc Champions and Eye!)> the low attack bonus of CE hitters seems to be worst with "Ray of Enf" and Orc Champ attacking with +11/+6 seems to be patetic... no chance to this orc... and Eye of G hit with 20 damages.... and needs 3 hits to kill an duergar Champ.... no big deal Valenar-Silver-Shadow> Damn! This quick attack flyers fly away of ultroloth.... I cant cast "Ray of Enf" on it but Duergar block then put in the base. Silver Fire is real threat to DC adn Ultroloth, if your enemy catch 3 units is 60 HPs that you lost with silver.... Marut-Cualt> Ultroloth skills seems to be useless... Ray on Marut dont gives real change, Sorch Ray dont do 5 fire damage on marut.... what can I do? Seek the Cualt, open my position and telepathy works GREAT! duergars base Cualt and then Ultroloth's high CR let me win the init... Cualt die.... and then more easy to kill marut and his bodyguard. Penta-hammer> Ultroloth CR and "Ray of Enf" is real pain to DCs, they hit +13/+8 (10 damages).... really poor, and you can cast "Ray-Enf" quick thanks to Quick cast. Poor damage output and low CR of penta-hammer falls against "Ultra-Champs" FireGiant+Body-Chraal> this warband is real threat to UltraChamps. I open my position because Chraal's cone, and thi giant seems to be Inmune to Ultroloth skills... My enemy have the same CR as me (Urthok)...adn my enemy cast "Inm fire on Chraal" I avoid Chraals cone and I cast "Ray-Enf" in it, I ignore it. I concentrate attack an damage in Urthok and Fire Giant and my enemy falls.... but I lost 3 duergar champs... ASTRACT "Ultra-Champs" is really powerfull warband, even more than penta-hammer in some ways, Ultroloth can replace the 5th DCs. The best Skills of the Ultroloth is the telepathy, "Ray-Enf", High Save and High CR, that give great chances to survive, to attack and buff enemies. Ultroloth is great unit adn UltraChamps seems to be a great warband. HIGH THREAT? = Fire Giant ForgePriest, Flying valenars, Titan+Cualt. Thanks for your atencion RYOGA!

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Vrecknidj
Warlord
Warlord

10301 Posts

United States

03/20/2007 12:55 PM
Not that we're seeing much of it, but how would your band fare against hit-and-run tactics, such as a flying Mounted Paladin or the Githyanki Dragon Knight? Dave

Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing; My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/20/2007 1:04 PM
Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/20/2007 12:55 PM Not that we're seeing much of it, but how would your band fare against hit-and-run tactics, such as a flying Mounted Paladin or the Githyanki Dragon Knight? Dave Ok, dave. The same like fliying valenars, base enemy units... if I can base 2 valenar Why dont 1 Mounted paladin?, Ultroloth have a great chance to buff mounted paladin of Gith... Thats not a big deal... I fear 2 flyings valenars....and invisible berserks....even marut is a real deal... Mounted Paladin and gith were very overcosted to be a challenge... Dave, What do you think about "UltraChamps"?

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Vrecknidj
Warlord
Warlord

10301 Posts

United States

03/20/2007 1:19 PM
I haven't tested UltraChamps yet, but I've been looking at a variety of Ultroloth bands with at least two Duergars. I think it has definite potential. I would be concerned about GAS bands, but that would just require careful positioning, so that not very many Gith Monks can get to the Ultroloth at a time. I'm surprised that Marut/Couatl is as popular in your area as you say. It's been out of favor for almost a year in many places in the USA, largely because Kord can take it apart and GAS can drop it as well. Dave

Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing; My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/20/2007 1:35 PM
Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/20/2007 1:19 PM I haven't tested UltraChamps yet, but I've been looking at a variety of Ultroloth bands with at least two Duergars. I think it has definite potential. I would be concerned about GAS bands, but that would just require careful positioning, so that not very many Gith Monks can get to the Ultroloth at a time. A1 MARK 1 I'm surprised that Marut/Couatl is as popular in your area as you say. It's been out of favor for almost a year in many places in the USA, largely because Kord can take it apart and GAS can drop it as well. A2 MAKR 2 Dave A1> YEAH!, GAS can be real threat against ultroloth... :S I forget GAS... and yes Ultra-Champs have great potencial too... men you I fight with this beast and you fell that you can defeat everyone... even more if you win 6 time consecutive. A2> people in my local meta loves High AC because a long time 50% of players have old Orc-hitters Builds, and Marut with AC 30 seems to be enough to block some attacks... If they play Kord, is really sure that he falls in Orcs attacks, he had low AC value. CoDa is very popular here, but his usage is decreasing very low.... new units let Marut-Cualt in teh past, but the players play it ... long time ago I miss 8 attacks against Improved Marut.... _ men thats anoying...

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Nate_666
Sergeant

801 Posts

Midwest

03/20/2007 2:09 PM
I think that ultra-champs would do well against a SWarm band too. This is because ultroloth can nerf the SW down to 5 damage a hit, and they will take 13 attacks(without counting conceal 6 of the DC) to kill a DC with that damage, while a DC only takes 2 hits to kill a SW (4 on average b/c of conceal 11). If the archon moves up to give the SW a boost in damage, then the DCs can surround him. The only thing I don't like about this build is that all of your hitters are the same, you have no real flexibility outside of what 1 ultroloth and a DC can do. Also speed 6 on all creatures might prove to be a problem eventually.

I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!

Sirohk
Commander

3812 Posts

USA

03/20/2007 3:15 PM
Great report and write up Ryoga!� Thanks much.� UltraChamps sounds very promissing.� Have you tested this warband against a pure Shadowdancer warband (ie Storm + 4 Shadowdancers + Gnome Trickster)? How about an Archmage warband? And how about against Kordacopia?� I was going to ask if you have facaed any Quad LE warbands, but you sort of did in the Penta-Hammer (ie x5 DC's + Urthok). Your UltraChamps warband should have had activation control versus PentaHammer and therefore dictated where and when combat occurred.� I might still be interested in more variety in the Utraloth warband so as to better handle a wider array of different warbands. But an Ultraloth and x4 DC's is just scary.� Out of curiosity, what were your 6 points of fodder in your warband?� Keep on testing and reporting. And maybe we can have a match one of these days on Vassal again?� Cheers.� Sirohk

Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone Knight of the Rahshasa's And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's

Gunthar
Commander

2938 Posts

03/20/2007 3:21 PM
I've been drawing up some ideas with our pal teh Ultraloth too as I just received mine via trade and I had been playing with Ultraloth, Bone Nage and two Duergar idea as well as four-Duergar idea. Either one has a good chance to absolutely decimate a titan build and should beat them most times, I think.

Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here) Minneapolis/St. Paul area Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/20/2007 6:09 PM
Sirohk, thanks for your comment, is always good to hear an good friend. I dont have test UltraLoth against Kurdocopia, Shadow X4 + Silver + Trick, Archmage builds. I want to test this Wb against quad-LE because he have a lot of SR units. I need more test... this warband can be a Tier 1. I use Gob Skirmisher and Kobold Miner. I cant enter in vassal because I have a lot of work, but I will try.... let me know if when you will enter Sirohk, and we can test Ultra-Champs in vassal, sounds fun! My better wish to Sirohk and keep playing LE! Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Dordledum
Commander

3193 Posts

Netherlands

03/21/2007 1:24 AM
Ultrachamps sounds cool, but I wonder a few things: * What is the improvement over a Ultra-FGFP build? * What do you use for filler? * What map do you prefer? D.

Member of the Bearded Devils Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and Hardcopy Printed DDM 2.0 Stat-Cards for all Minis!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/21/2007 7:27 AM
Posted By Dordledum on 03/21/2007 1:24 AM Ultrachamps sounds cool, but I wonder a few things: * What is the improvement over a Ultra-FGFP build? * What do you use for filler? * What map do you prefer? D. Hi Dordledum and Thanks for your comment, 1* Ok I dont think that Ultra-FGFP have potencial, because you put thsi tow units and you have total of 146pts, the point left is to one hitter more and fodders; plus one DC is 179, and left 21pts and you have 3 activations.... thats not good, what do you prefer? 4x DC or and FGFP+DC?, - Damages: 4xDC do 120 damages (without cleaves), and the FGFP+DC 90 (without cleaves) and its depends if you have Inm fire enemies and cold damages enemies. - HPs: The duergar champs have great advantage, he have 65 Hps... yes this is a really good value, because in the game 30 damages is teh max value of melee attacks (In 200pts games) the duergar have 5 HPs that gives more durability. 4xDC have 260Hps near fearless, and FGFP+DC have 215Hps. The giant have more defense and attack bonus but this is compensate by Conceal 6. IMHO, 4xDC is better than FGFP+DC. UltraChamps have better output and durability. 2* I use Gob skirmisher and Kobold Miner 3* I prefer Dragon Grave yard, because is more easy to put Ultroloth in position to cast spells in the proper unit, you move near center and you can kill fodders or hide in teh wall to see the unit that you like to buff. I have a question, is disrrupted Telepaty by Improve Counter Song? "UltraChamps" have ha problen, weak fodders, 7 Activations, if your enemy kill the miner or the Gob, you have only 6 activations... thats really bad, and you cant waste activations because the warband have a lot of key units 5, in some moments of the game you will waste activations in duergars that cant hit or make an agressive movement. Thanks for your comments and Keep playing LE! Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Raland
Sergeant

884 Posts

03/21/2007 11:33 AM
Is Telepathy disrupted by Improved Countersong??� I'd say both yes and no. As IC, puts people within six out of command they would be out of command regardless of Telepathy. The part of IC that negates commander effects wouldn't work as it's not a Cfx. So any Creature further away than 6 squares of the IC would benefit from the Telepathy.�

Champion of the Kender ckissee - "providing TPK's since 2007" Albert Einstein never once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left" but the theory is a scary prospect.

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/21/2007 11:57 AM
Posted By Raland on 03/21/2007 11:33 AM Is Telepathy disrupted by Improved Countersong??� I'd say both yes and no. As IC, puts people within six out of command they would be out of command regardless of Telepathy. The part of IC that negates commander effects wouldn't work as it's not a Cfx. So any Creature further away than 6 squares of the IC would benefit from the Telepathy.� Yeah thats the question as independent that can't be put out of command via IC, I think that IC makes units out of command but How knows... Hey raland, what do you think about "UltraChamps"??? Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Raland
Sergeant

884 Posts

03/21/2007 12:08 PM
I tried a version of it, this past weekend. I didn't have that many DC's with me, and so played a Medium Green Dragon. Was not a good test really, as competition wasn't great. Had much fun, I like the Ultraloth.

Champion of the Kender ckissee - "providing TPK's since 2007" Albert Einstein never once said that if the bees disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left" but the theory is a scary prospect.

Temysry
Sergeant

463 Posts

03/21/2007 1:43 PM
Posted By Raland on 03/21/2007 11:33 AM Is Telepathy disrupted by Improved Countersong??� I'd say both yes and no. As IC, puts people within six out of command they would be out of command regardless of Telepathy. The part of IC that negates commander effects wouldn't work as it's not a Cfx. So any Creature further away than 6 squares of the IC would benefit from the Telepathy.� Improved Countersong says that creatures cannot be put under command by other creatures. Telepathy simply states that all allies are considered to be within 6 squares of the Ultroloth. There's no reason why both of these things can't be true at the same time. Improved countersong does nothing to prevent telepathy. Of course, regarding Guy's latest ruling, "out of command" effects trump "in command" effects, so a creature in the Ultroloth's warband (and not independent) that is also under the effect of an enemy's improved countersong would be considered to be within 6 squares of the Ultroloth, but out of command at the same time.

A Proud Gelatinous Dude www.gelatinousdudes.com

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/21/2007 2:13 PM
Ok Temystry thanks for your comment, What do you think about UltraChamps?

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Temysry
Sergeant

463 Posts

03/21/2007 2:19 PM
Posted By Ryoga on 03/21/2007 2:13 PM Ok Temystry thanks for your comment, What do you think about UltraChamps? Haven't had a chance to take a close look, but reports are certainly very promising. A friend had tried out: Ultroloth Chraal Duergar Champ x2 Canoloth Greenspawn Sneak Dire Rat Goblin Skirmisher Map: Caves of Chaos He played it at the most recent local sanctioned tournament and went 3-0 (as did I with a Sune band). If we had played another round, I think I could have probably beat him, but it certainly shows the power of Ultroloth+Duergar Champs. Although your version has less flexibility, it probably makes up for it in damage output. I'll certainly try it out in the future.

A Proud Gelatinous Dude www.gelatinousdudes.com

skeesh
Skirmisher

4 Posts

03/21/2007 9:33 PM
Ryo, i dig the look of this team... I'm gonna run it tomorrow at the Minis Tourny at the ol' local game shop... I'll give you a report on how it goes =)

TheArcher
Skirmisher

29 Posts

03/22/2007 3:16 AM
hey Ryoga, no offense, man, but I cannot see what is so special about your built... The DC has been LE's Orc Champion ever since it was released. Its simply the best LE beater in his point-range. Now wizards released LE's new most powerful commander, the Ultroloth. ANYTHING you will pair with him is stronger because of his obvious qualities... So, throwing together the best beaters and the best commander LE has to offer comes kind of naturally... So, OF COURSE, it is a tier1 band, even without testing one can say that by just regarding the obvious (the stats). The dugi champ is such a versatile piece that I ran 6 of them without a commander and have yet to be beaten.... it has reliable dmg, is hard to hit AC20 Conc6 HP65, and has a good chance to stay with save 10... And Penta-Hammer is still my favourite band. However, sorry to disappoint you but the other night I ripped your Ultra-Champ band apart two times with a beholder/beholder Lich band on dragon down grotto... auto dmg is the DC's worst enemy! Granted I had luck with map ini (Beholders with AC27 in forest are tough) and some nasty rolls too, but the beholder healing the lich (or two liches healing each other) can be strong against dugis!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/22/2007 6:51 AM
Posted By skeesh on 03/21/2007 9:33 PM Ryo, i dig the look of this team... I'm gonna run it tomorrow at the Minis Tourny at the ol' local game shop... I'll give you a report on how it goes =) Thanks Skeesh, I will wating for your report. Posted By Archer on 03/21/2007 9:33 PM hey Ryoga, no offense, man, but I cannot see what is so special about your built... The DC has been LE's Orc Champion ever since it was released. Its simply the best LE beater in his point-range. Now wizards released LE's new most powerful commander, the Ultroloth. ANYTHING you will pair with him is stronger because of his obvious qualities... No problem Archer, I respect you point of view... Yes I know that DC is LE's Orc champion, but The question is that I think that this warband is one of the best combinations for ultroloth. Im Completly agree with you DC hate Autodamages, but How plays and beholder in teh current metagaming? :daze: I think that beholder is risky unit, 2 helmed horrors can face suffering minor damages, even marut can block it easy, even more Undeads... Beholder Lich is very low damage pieces that I think lacks of real damages, High save enemy units and warbands with Drummer can deal with it very easy.... I you play Lich B+ Beholder, you need High CR you chosse map, If you play Hellspike you are death... The diference of UltraChamps vs Penta-Hammer is that you have very Stable commander and CR, and Ultroloth Hit really hard remplacing the role of 5th DC.... I won about 6 Tournaments with Penta-hammer, but some enemies hit me really hard with Morale checks, its very easy kill the Cheap commander and put and drummer with -4 Morale Saves, you will lost your DCs when he have 35 points of damages... and then run away!.... The point is that this Duergar Champs with Ultroloth in one point of game, gains +2 AC and Reinforcement against some enemy units... probably all enemy hitters. I post this article with the intention to discut Ultroloth weak points and hard points... UltraChamps can defeat penta Hammers, I will test beholder and Penta-hammer. Archer thanks for your contribution at last... Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Sirohk
Commander

3812 Posts

USA

03/22/2007 5:08 PM
Keep up the great testing folks with the Ultrachamps warband.� IMO it looks like a solid warband.� And like any other warband, it will still have its potential bad matchups: - versus Shadowdancers (unknown, but if the Shadowdancers can take out the Ultarloth...) - versus Archamge (unknown, could be interesting) - versus autodamage warbands like Firebelchers (nerfing does no good and they are immune fire) - GAS (Monks speed versus DC speed could be trouble) The two weaknesses that I can see with the Ultrachamps warband is the Speed 6, only 7 activations, and potentially not getting first round VP's.� One might be able to get around this last one by going to 6 activations and using the Greenspawn Sneak. On most maps your speed 6 figures can get into support range for the Greenspawn in the second round.� And one final thought, due to their spped 6 Ultrachamps is going to be map dependent. But what map would be best for them? I thinking possibly Keep of Fallen Kings - a short run to join melee.� Just my $0.02.�

Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone Knight of the Rahshasa's And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/22/2007 7:09 PM
Posted By Sirohk on 03/22/2007 5:08 PM - versus Shadowdancers (unknown, but if the Shadowdancers can take out the Ultarloth...) - versus Archamge (unknown, could be interesting) - versus autodamage warbands like Firebelchers (nerfing does no good and they are immune fire) - GAS (Monks speed versus DC speed could be trouble) The two weaknesses that I can see with the Ultrachamps warband is the Speed 6, only 7 activations, and potentially not getting first round VP's.� One might be able to get around this last one by going to 6 activations and using the Greenspawn Sneak. On most maps your speed 6 figures can get into support range for the Greenspawn in the second round.� And one final thought, due to their spped 6 Ultrachamps is going to be map dependent.�But what map would be best for them? I thinking possibly Keep of Fallen Kings - a short run to join melee.� My friend Sirohk, ShadowDancers : I dont think that this unit is a real threat for Ultroloth, Shadow is very bad Match to Penta-hammer. I will add Shadow dancers to my test list... Archamage: In 200pts its very risky to play put you 100pts in only one basket... I have some doubts. Added to test list. FireBelcher: I Agree that this is a real bad Matchup......... men I fear belchers added to test list GAS: This can be real challenge, but in the proper hands... added to test list MAP: I play it in DragonGraveYard a lot and I see good results, hellspike too, Fane of lolth regular results and Dragon Grotto bad results... but I won in all games and all maps. I not the Activation porblem of "UltraChamps" and I comemnted in older post UP! I have a lot of work for this weekend.... I will report you my results Sirohk Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

IANKAVIK
Sneak
Sneak

171 Posts

COLOMBIA

03/22/2007 8:31 PM
Well, i guess that this warband is so hard to kill, and that is potentially very dangerous with ultroloth been the commander. But, i guess that exists at least two warbands that haven´t been mentioned in this forum and that surelly will put the DC against the rings: 1. Wizards... CG have a lot of wizards that are so cheap and that can destroy your units slowly but firmerly, just an example: Mephling pyromancer + Elf pyromancer + Warlock (100 pts) still remains 100 pts of hitters or Archers, or maybe more wizards. They have the same speed that DC but they cause a great damage. 2. Constructs... LE and LG have good unit that could make you cry!!! p.e.: Ultroloth + Iron Golem x 2 (193 Pts). They will advance slowly toward your warband.... and will make the same effect that you expect with your warband... with the difference that you could shock against a wall before make the necessary damage to destroy all the warband... and the another 7 pts are very easy to complete... Kobold Zombie x 3 and 1 Kobold Miner... 7 activations...with possibilities to win invasion points. Maybe my dear warband CG haven´t anything to do against your Ultra Champs. But i guess that i have another 2 warbands very useful against UC. JK

skeesh
Skirmisher

4 Posts

03/22/2007 9:58 PM
Bah! couldn't play UltraChamps Tonight =( showed up at the shop and it was Epic 500pt night... gotta say i was pretty mad... came in last place with some random poop i just threw together at the last minute

Dordledum
Commander

3193 Posts

Netherlands

03/23/2007 1:59 AM
dammit, 3 cases and 7 boosters later: still no Ultroloth! D.

Member of the Bearded Devils Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and Hardcopy Printed DDM 2.0 Stat-Cards for all Minis!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/23/2007 8:41 AM
@ IANKAVIK, nice to see you here my good friend. I dont think that your options is enough to defeat UltraChamps easy... ... I dont know about it.... maybe in future Tournament you will have the chance to fight with me... Good luck after that. @ skeesh, MEN thats bad.... doble OUCH!, You cant test Ultrachamps and people play an tournament full of undercosted tordeks, unbetables Bahamuts and nasty archers.... This is bad luck... @Dordledum, you have worst bad luck than skeesh.... MEN! no ultroloth!!! I will realize more test tonight and I will post it here tomorrow. THANKS Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

TheArcher
Skirmisher

29 Posts

03/24/2007 12:51 PM
hi Ryoga! How do you think Ultrachamps would fare against 3 black dragons + werewolf lord + fodder? This is is being played a lot lately on VASSAL... All these strong fly10 hitters with 90 HPs are a tough mount of flesh to hammer away at... g black dragon bands are quite strong....and start to annoy me.... I think, after all the craptacular dragons wizard finally wanted to release a dragon which would actually be played....no matter how broken... :-(

Dordledum
Commander

3193 Posts

Netherlands

03/25/2007 4:15 AM
Posted By Ryoga on 03/23/2007 8:41 AM @ IANKAVIK, nice to see you here my good friend. I dont think that your options is enough to defeat UltraChamps easy... ... I dont know about it.... maybe in future Tournament you will have the chance to fight with me... Good luck after that. @ skeesh, MEN thats bad.... doble OUCH!, You cant test Ultrachamps and people play an tournament full of undercosted tordeks, unbetables Bahamuts and nasty archers.... This is bad luck... @Dordledum, you have worst bad luck than skeesh.... MEN! no ultroloth!!! I will realize more test tonight and I will post it here tomorrow. THANKS Ryoga Thanks, I resorted to Auggies, bought 2 Ultroloth and 3 Ice Elelementals (I love playing LE!). Too bad they probably won't reach me for our next tournament on April 7th. D.

Member of the Bearded Devils Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and Hardcopy Printed DDM 2.0 Stat-Cards for all Minis!

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/25/2007 10:02 AM
Posted By TheArcher on 03/24/2007 12:51 PM hi Ryoga! How do you think Ultrachamps would fare against 3 black dragons + werewolf lord + fodder? This is is being played a lot lately on VASSAL... All these strong fly10 hitters with 90 HPs are a tough mount of flesh to hammer away at... g black dragon bands are quite strong....and start to annoy me.... I think, after all the craptacular dragons wizard finally wanted to release a dragon which would actually be played....no matter how broken... :-( WOW :S, 3x Black Dragons!!! damn what a sick mind If you dont notice Ultroloth is imune to acid, and Buffed Dragons do +8/+6/+6 (15 damages) not enough against duergars, The problem is the Werewolfs, and if your enemy put the acid lines very well your duergars cna fall... I dont see the potencial of 3x Blacks because this dragons never hit High AC warbands... can be fun and very great threat against Ultra-Champs. Good point Archer, you get one interesting point.... Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/25/2007 10:04 AM
Posted By Dordledum on 03/25/2007 4:15 AM Posted By Ryoga on 03/23/2007 8:41 AM @ IANKAVIK, nice to see you here my good friend. I dont think that your options is enough to defeat UltraChamps easy... ... I dont know about it.... maybe in future Tournament you will have the chance to fight with me... Good luck after that. @ skeesh, MEN thats bad.... doble OUCH!, You cant test Ultrachamps and people play an tournament full of undercosted tordeks, unbetables Bahamuts and nasty archers.... This is bad luck... @Dordledum, you have worst bad luck than skeesh.... MEN! no ultroloth!!! I will realize more test tonight and I will post it here tomorrow. THANKS Ryoga Thanks, I resorted to Auggies, bought 2 Ultroloth and 3 Ice Elelementals (I love playing LE!). Too bad they probably won't reach me for our next tournament on April 7th. D. I will waiting for your tournament report. I think that 2 ultroloths is too much... 1 its enough... Put 3 Ice, 1 Ultroloth and 2 Duergars. can be good choice... but I dont have Ice Elementals. Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Sirohk
Commander

3812 Posts

USA

03/26/2007 6:15 AM
Posted By Ryoga on 03/25/2007 10:04 AM I think that 2 ultroloths is too much... 1 its enough... Ryoga I was wondering about using 2 Ultraloths in the same warband. Thats 124 points of your warband, but potentially 60 points of Scorching rays with the Quickcast on engagement round. Or multiple castings of Ray of Enfeeblement. Ouch.� Something like: Ultraloth 62 Ultraloth 62 DC 33 DC 33 Dire Rat 4 x2 Goblin Skirmishers 6 200 pts, 7 activations That's still x4 2 attacks each 15 damage a swing hitters (DC's at +15/+10 and Ultra's at +16/+11) and that's after the Ultraloths have fired off some of their nerfing spells. Throw in Dark Suggestion and Heightened Ray of Exhaustion and things might get ugly.� This looks like it might need some testing.�

Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone Knight of the Rahshasa's And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's

lingster
Sergeant

778 Posts

03/26/2007 10:57 AM
I ran this band this past weekend without a single loss: Ultraloth DC x3 Snig+Sniglets Kobold Monk Diseased Dire Rat It works well. The Ultraloth's Dark Suggestion does NOT have to target anyone. You just have to be within 6 AND you don't have to be the closest. We ruled that he could in fact, make an invisible enemy have to roll that save... Has Guy ruled otherwise?

May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor. Champion of Black Pudding Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED! Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08) Member of Team Millennium 4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this: The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short)

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/26/2007 11:20 AM
Posted By lingster on 03/26/2007 10:57 AM I ran this band this past weekend without a single loss: Ultraloth DC x3 Snig+Sniglets Kobold Monk Diseased Dire Rat It works well. The Ultraloth's Dark Suggestion does NOT have to target anyone. You just have to be within 6 AND you don't have to be the closest. We ruled that he could in fact, make an invisible enemy have to roll that save... Has Guy ruled otherwise? WOW! Good catch!!! Dark Suggestion can dispel de Invisivility inciting the enemies to hit their allies!!! Thanks Lingster, Dark suggestion works on every enemy in 6 Squares of ultroloth, no matter if they are invisibles.... Good idea... Ryoga

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

lingster
Sergeant

778 Posts

03/26/2007 11:33 AM
Not every, just one of them.

May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor. Champion of Black Pudding Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED! Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08) Member of Team Millennium 4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this: The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short)

FriendlyAlienist
Sneak
Sneak

100 Posts

Finland

03/26/2007 11:43 AM
I'm afraid the explanation for keyword "any" prevents targeting invisible targets: any: (Keyword) This spell or special ability does not follow the usual restriction of targeting only the nearest enemy or nearest ally. (Line of sight and range restrictions still apply, unless indicated otherwise.)

Champion of Gibbering Abomination, Knight of All Things Aberrant

Ryoga
Underboss

1124 Posts

Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/26/2007 12:19 PM
Posted By lingster on 03/26/2007 11:33 AM Not every, just one of them. Dark suggestion affaects all enemies in 6 squares.

Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :( Some day I will be back in board

Myth Master Jr
Sergeant

418 Posts

03/26/2007 2:27 PM
Posted By TheArcher on 03/22/2007 3:16 AM And Penta-Hammer is still my favourite band. What is Penta-hammer?

Trade References\|\|60 Trades Completed\|\|Louisville Gaming Society\|\|LGS Forums\|\|Trade With Me Steven C Johnson, LGS Administrator All Gamers of Any Sort are Welcomed!

vudumumu
Sneak
Sneak

83 Posts

03/26/2007 2:44 PM
Posted By Ryoga on 03/26/2007 12:19 PM Posted By lingster on 03/26/2007 11:33 AM Not every, just one of them. Dark suggestion affaects all enemies in 6 squares. I don't have it in front of me, but I think it says any living ENEMY, that is singular, not plural, meaning ONE. If it affected all enemies, that would be just nuts.

Big_Red
Skirmisher

18 Posts

03/26/2007 2:51 PM
the way that dark suggestion works is: you select any (ONE) creature within 6 squares to attempt a dc19 dominate. the really amazing thing about this is that you dont have to see them and they dont have to be closest. i have a won a couple games with ultrloth by doing dark suggestion on an invisible kord and taking a swing, killing the commander. this action also breaks the kords invisibility, which is sweet. all in all, a great ability

Leader of the coalition for kobold rights and freedoms act Kobold miner cannot be defeated

Bert the Troll
Commander

3858 Posts

Adelaide

03/26/2007 4:19 PM
I think you still have to pick a target you can see for dark suggestion. ~ Edit: nope. I'm wrong. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=816652 Guy: You can target a creature you can't see with Dark Suggestion. It neither explicitly nor implicitly requires line of sight to the target.

"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin Champion of Epic ~~Lolth~~, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus!

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