Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
    
 | | 03/26/2007 5:33 PM |
| Dark Suggestion (Replaces attacks: any living enemy within 6 squares; Dominate[Target living enemy makes a single immediate attack as if it were a member of your warband]
The way I understand it Dark Suggestion effects any living enemy within 6 squares. No LOS needed because 6 squares can go around corners just as with commander effects. Second, people are confusing the definition of "Dominate", were it says target creature, as meaning you need LOS. Dominate only happens if the creature is already withing six squares and fails the DC19 save. So you can't use these wordings to mean that you need LOS. So it goes like this, within 6 squares, DC19 save, then Dominate takes effect. Invisibility shouldn't matter.
Edit - In my hurry to actually contribute for a change, I didn't realize so many already had it right. Sorry. | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/26/2007 6:08 PM |
| My fault.... yeah is single enemy..... but its still great.... sounds good against invisible low save CGt units...
We need test.... I will post more test this week, I have some reports for you.
Ryoga  | |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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vudumumu
Sneak
83 Posts
| | 03/26/2007 7:23 PM |
| | Well its official, Guy ruled that you DO NOT have to have line of sight to the creature to use Dark Suggestion. | | | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/26/2007 8:11 PM |
| I had a similar band the other night using a hexblade in place of one of the DC's as was expecting a titan band.
The curse went off first, making it easier for the exhaustaion, but his firepriest ended up with attack -9, damage -20 and save -4. . | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1887 Posts
Portland OR
| | 03/26/2007 11:10 PM |
| UltraHexchamps is something I immediatly went to as an option... I love the Hexblade but he's so much more squishy!!! of course this means he becomes the prime target instead of the ultraloth for easy pts... sounds like a decent trade. The two mean an aweful lot of nerfing going on. would it pay to play
ultraloth
Duergar x2
hexblade
Dragonmark
???
can only get six acts... me thinks it's not enough... at save -4 some things would fail the phantom blade too. Not much but at least its a contribution... Duergar x3 then??? how about soulknife + upgraded fodder for the remaining 40???
Ultra
Duergarx2
Hexblade
Soulknife
Greenspawn
Kobold monk
4pts... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/27/2007 5:58 AM |
| If you want to use the Hexblade...which isn't a bad option. Why not just keep the warband the same just replacing one of the DCs.
Ultroloth
DC x3
Hexblade
Goblin Skirmisher x2
200/7
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Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 03/27/2007 6:32 AM |
| The problem I see with having the Hexblade in there is that he's really only useful against titan bands. If you're facing GAS or another quad Duergar, or, heavens forbid HeXen'drik, then the Hexblade is going to have less meaning in your band and just reduces your damage output.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/27/2007 9:53 AM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/27/2007 5:58 AM
If you want to use the Hexblade...which isn't a bad option. Why not just keep the warband the same just replacing one of the DCs.
Ultroloth
DC x3
Hexblade
Goblin Skirmisher x2
200/7
The idea sounds interesting, but I fear that invisible warbands can hunt the Hexblade very quick, until I test it I prefer to use other duergar, I never lost with UltraChamps, but UltraHexChamps sounds really good againts non-CE warbands, drummer hate all DC based effects.
Ryoga
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/27/2007 1:58 PM |
| Posted By Big_Red on 03/26/2007 2:51 PM
the way that dark suggestion works is: you select any (ONE) creature within 6 squares to attempt a dc19 dominate. the really amazing thing about this is that you dont have to see them and they dont have to be closest.
i have a won a couple games with ultrloth by doing dark suggestion on an invisible kord and taking a swing, killing the commander. this action also breaks the kords invisibility, which is sweet.
all in all, a great ability
Big_Red is correct. I asked that question of Guy a few weeks back Re: Dark Suggestion.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/27/2007 1:59 PM |
| IMO the Hexblade is just not worth it. Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Big_Red
Skirmisher
18 Posts
| | 03/27/2007 6:00 PM |
| | i dont think the hexblade is worth it. imo you are sacrificing too much to get the extra nerf. yeah it would be sweet if you ran against titan or 1-2 beaters in a band, but against something like dancers or quad beater bands it really doesnt give enough to compensate for the other champ. | |
Leader of the coalition for kobold rights and freedoms act
Kobold miner cannot be defeated | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/28/2007 6:16 PM |
| Well yeah I said it wasn't a bad option, not a good option  . I know the hexblade is worse than the DC I was just wondering why not keep a similar core with 3 DC + ultroloth.
Sorry no more from me. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/28/2007 9:25 PM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/28/2007 6:16 PM Well yeah I said it wasn't a bad option, not a good option . I know the hexblade is worse than the DC I was just wondering why not keep a similar core with 3 DC + ultroloth. Sorry no more from me.
Thanks for your comments, your ideas was very important for our analisis. I think that HexBlade is not bad idea at all, Hex its not better that DC but is Fun choice too...
I test UltraChmaps againts, Penta-Dancers and Archmage warbands, with great results....
OK
Do you have more test?
Ryoga
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Big_Red
Skirmisher
18 Posts
| | 03/28/2007 11:37 PM |
| | try testing it against a mirror match, or against a FGFP+ultraloth band, might be fun matches | |
Leader of the coalition for kobold rights and freedoms act
Kobold miner cannot be defeated | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/28/2007 11:42 PM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/28/2007 6:16 PM Well yeah I said it wasn't a bad option, not a good option  . I know the hexblade is worse than the DC I was just wondering why not keep a similar core with 3 DC + ultroloth. " Sorry no more from me."
Don't ever let that stop you from posting. Its not a bad idea and as others have said it could be a fun warband. Some day one of your posts might just be a great idea no one else has thought of.Â
Cheers.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/28/2007 11:47 PM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 03/28/2007 9:25 PM Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/28/2007 6:16 PM Well yeah I said it wasn't a bad option, not a good option . I know the hexblade is worse than the DC I was just wondering why not keep a similar core with 3 DC + ultroloth. Sorry no more from me. Thanks for your comments, your ideas was very important for our analisis. I think that HexBlade is not bad idea at all, Hex its not better that DC but is Fun choice too... I test UltraChmaps againts, Penta-Dancers and Archmage warbands, with great results.... OK Do you have more test? Ryoga
Ryoga - any more details on your matches with the Shadowdancers and Archamge warbands?Â
Such as why against Pentadancers?Â
And did this warband use Storm and therefore no Gnome Trickster?Â
How good were your opponents? The Archmage warband takes a lot of proactice and skill to run successfully.Â
More detail than "with great results" would be greatly appreciated. Durration of matches? Won on points or time? Impact of the Ultrloth and use of his spells?Â
Thanks Ryoga.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3233 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/29/2007 12:15 PM |
| Hi, just build some variations of my own:
Ultroloth -62
DCx3 -99
Canoloth -24
Bat -6
Kobold Miner -3
Goblin Skirmy x2 -6
200 points/9 activations!
and
Ultroloth -62
DC x2 -66
Canoloth -24
Dragonmark -34 (maybe a 3rd DC, But I guess not: dragonmark can sneak-attack and is a bit more tech-y)
Greenspawn -6
Blue -5
Kobold Miner -3
200 points/8 activations
I guess, I'm going to play the latter on Hellspike: allways under command, even on both sides of the smoke, and great vs ranged and shadowdancers.
D.
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Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/29/2007 1:06 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 03/28/2007 11:47 PM Posted By Ryoga on 03/28/2007 9:25 PM Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/28/2007 6:16 PM Well yeah I said it wasn't a bad option, not a good option . I know the hexblade is worse than the DC I was just wondering why not keep a similar core with 3 DC + ultroloth. Sorry no more from me. Thanks for your comments, your ideas was very important for our analisis. I think that HexBlade is not bad idea at all, Hex its not better that DC but is Fun choice too... I test UltraChmaps againts, Penta-Dancers and Archmage warbands, with great results.... OK Do you have more test? Ryoga
Ryoga - any more details on your matches with the Shadowdancers and Archamge warbands?Â
Such as why against Pentadancers?Â
And did this warband use Storm and therefore no Gnome Trickster?Â
How good were your opponents? The Archmage warband takes a lot of proactice and skill to run successfully.Â
More detail than "with great results" would be greatly appreciated. Durration of matches? Won on points or time? Impact of the Ultrloth and use of his spells?Â
Thanks Ryoga.Â
My good friend Sirohk,
Sorry I didnt have time to write about more test, I have a lot to work to do, maybe the next week.
Im very sorry I know that too much people awaiting more test.
Maybe evildani can report his Penta-Dancer warband, 5x Shadow Dancers + Gnome Tricker + Warchanter + Fodders.
I will write to you the next week more reports, for now PLZ wait...
Thanks
Ryoga
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 03/29/2007 2:29 PM |
| I can't imagine making an Ultroloth band without a canoloth. Fearless, and speed 10 make him and excellent include.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/29/2007 2:34 PM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/29/2007 2:29 PM
I can't imagine making an Ultroloth band without a canoloth. Fearless, and speed 10 make him and excellent include.
Teflon,
I think that canoloth cost 10pts less but never replace the damage that can do an Duergar Champ, Canoloth just do 10 non-magic damages with +10 attack bonus and duergar do 30 magic damages with 12.5 atatck bonus.... I prefer a duergar champion instead, you need to do damages, not speed and melee reach 4....
What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing...
What can do an Duergar Champ against Marut? A LOT!
Thats the diference....
Thanks for your comment
Ryoga
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
|
Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/29/2007 3:18 PM |
| What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing...
Pull his support pieces (mainly his Bodyguard) into 3 duergar champions and a Ultoloth seems like it would be useful. Maybe not as much as a Duergar Champion though | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
|
Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9934 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/29/2007 4:31 PM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 03/29/2007 3:18 PM What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing... Pull his support pieces (mainly his Bodyguard) into 3 duergar champions and a Ultoloth seems like it would be useful. Maybe not as much as a Duergar Champion though
This seems like a very good use for the ability. And, of course, pulling enemies into pits is another good one. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/29/2007 4:58 PM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 03/29/2007 2:34 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/29/2007 2:29 PM
I can't imagine making an Ultroloth band without a canoloth. Fearless, and speed 10 make him and excellent include.
Teflon, I think that canoloth cost 10pts less but never replace the damage that can do an Duergar Champ, Canoloth just do 10 non-magic damages with +10 attack bonus and duergar do 30 magic damages with 12.5 atatck bonus.... I prefer a duergar champion instead, you need to do damages, not speed and melee reach 4.... What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing... What can do an Duergar Champ against Marut? A LOT! Thats the diference.... Thanks for your comment Ryoga | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/29/2007 6:01 PM |
| Posted By Bert the Troll on 03/29/2007 4:58 PM Posted By Ryoga on 03/29/2007 2:34 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/29/2007 2:29 PM
I can't imagine making an Ultroloth band without a canoloth. Fearless, and speed 10 make him and excellent include.
Teflon, I think that canoloth cost 10pts less but never replace the damage that can do an Duergar Champ, Canoloth just do 10 non-magic damages with +10 attack bonus and duergar do 30 magic damages with 12.5 atatck bonus.... I prefer a duergar champion instead, you need to do damages, not speed and melee reach 4.... What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing... What can do an Duergar Champ against Marut? A LOT! Thats the diference.... Thanks for your comment Ryoga
Ok I think that all know one...... no? :S
If Non-epic Ultroloth do this cost reduction I dont have any doubt to put 2 canoloths or if Ultroloth Cfx imporve Canoloth stats......but NO.... canoloth can be a side hitter, its simple low competitive unit and with Pull effect DC 15 you cant quit an decent bodyguard from Marut..... Its simple, you cant count with DC 15 effects with meta full of high save units...
IMO RYOGA
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
|
Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/29/2007 6:54 PM |
| As we were discussing 200 pt bands, I was surpised to see you say "I think that canoloth cost 10pts less".
And even basic seeming things are often mistaken.
edit: I think I see what you meant now. That canoloths cost ten (well 9) less than DCs, not that canoloth cost less tin an ultraloth band. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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skeesh
Skirmisher
4 Posts
| | 03/29/2007 9:23 PM |
| Hey guys... i got some test results for this warband... keep in mind while going over this that I am still a fairly newer player in Mini's so obviously the outcomes COULD have been different until the control of a different player... but this is me and this is what i have to report =p
also this is being pulled from memory... i forgot to bring a pen and paper =(
alrighty so the build I went with was Ryoga's original build:
Ultraloth
4x Duergar Champ
Kobold Miner
Goblin Skirm
Map: Broken Demongate
Round 1:
Opponent's warband: Ogre Executioner, Ultraloth, Bone Naga, fodder
Map: Can't recall for the life of me
Everything was pretty cut and dry as far as i've seen in this game thus far, i managed to sort of split his forces early on and get his fodder focused on 2 D Champs while the other 2 and the Ultraloth were occupied by the Ogre and Naga... the Ogre resisted my suggestion, also my Champ resisted his suggestion (yay!).. eventually his fodder crapped out, my kobold remained in the victory area. All in the same round his Naga, my Ultraloth and one of the Champs die... I'm starting to get a bit nervous... i base his ogre and ultraloth and eventually tear through the remained of his bad due to some well timed crits and really poor rolls from him
RD1 result: Win
Round 2:
Opponent: Firegiant FP, Helmed Horror 2x, Greenspawn sneak, Snig + skirms
Map: we both had the demongate
This was the band i was most anticipating in the evening... there's a group of guys that come every week (good friends of mine) that all bring this one and usually all finish in the top 4... we both met at the bottleneck in the center and the action ensued... i downed one of his horrors REALLY fast and the other wasn't that far behind... I already had his Sneak and i think one of his sniglings dead.. basicly this match came down to if my Champs failed morale or not... and I was clearly in the right positions until 2 of them failed... next round 1 rallied and the other ran away... at this point he only had snig and FGFP left... I still had 2 badly injured Champs and my Loth left... sadly i couldn't pull out the Big W but i was hella proud that I did 90 dmg to FGFP and i feel had a DAMN good shot at winning that match... oh well... there's always next time =p
RD2 Result: Lose
Round 3:
Opponent: Lynard Sky(nard)fire Captain, Crow Shaman, Aspect of Kord, Gnome Trickster, Wild Elf Warsinger, stuff
map: ummm... was his.... that Ice map i forget what it's called... something tower?
honestly i dont even want to talk about this one... my opponent kept saying it was a tough match for him and kept trying to say it was close but I killed his Crow Shaman and he managed to totally mangle me... long story short... that many Snakes Swiftnesses on Aspect of Kord = ouch... but i bet this match would have been vastly different if someone else had been playing instead of me... or even if i could have gotta some nerfs off on Kord... none of which happened however =/
Round3 result: Lose
Round 4:
Opponent: Nentyar Hunter, Bralani, random archers... looked like a casual team ran by a 40 year old woman that smokes herself retarded (seriously)
map: i won.. demongate
This wasn't even a match... i based her archers, pounded them to death, didn't let the nentyar get 2 shots off on anyone and proceded to win hands down... my fodder died and one Champ took 40.. the rest each had 10 dmg on at the end... lalala -shrug-
Round4 result: Win
sooooo yup there you go... i REALLY like this band quite a bit... I'll probably have more match results this time next week... and maybe if for once i can get some playtesting in over the week (sort of doubtful though)
hope this makes for viable feedback guys =)
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 03/29/2007 10:13 PM |
| I played Ultrachamps tonight taking 1st (3-0) in our local tourny. I beat out:
Werewolf Lord
Eye of Gruumsh
Marilith
Orc Brute
Orc Brute
Quaggoth Slave
Wolf
Freeleague Ranger
Archmage
Gnome Trickster
Steelheart Archer
Half Ogre Barbarian
Tavern Brawler
Halfling Sneak
Half Orc Paladin
Mercenary Sergent
Harmonium Guard
Dragonmark Heir of Denith
Dwarf Sniper
Phalanx Soldier
Phalanx Soldier
Shieldwall Soldier
Not the great warbands ever but they still had thier different strengths to over come.Â
CE=High damage really fast
CG=Archmage and ranged attacks
LG=Insane AC at times. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
1887 Posts
Portland OR
| | 03/29/2007 11:27 PM |
| If they made the non-epic have the yugoloth cost reduction ability we would have seen trouble in the form of mezzoloths and duergar champs... even -5pts on the non-epic would have made this interesting but would have bumped his already suspect cost...
anyway...
seeing mixed reports doesn't really surprise me... A) still new and people need to figure out how to play it... B) too much of a good thing in 4 champs... always always always diversify and LE has those options... we're about one LE piece away from perfection still... keeps happening... why??? I'm definately trying 3 duergar and hexblade this weekend... maybe even 2 duergar and a wartroll... how bout them apples!!! icky ac on the wartroll with nerfs... and ranged support... hmmm... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 03/30/2007 12:02 PM |
| I beat Ryoga's Ultra-champs today on vassal. After he pummeled by dancer band on dragon graveyard i had a rematch using..
Archmage
Storm Silverhand
Graycloak x2
Wolf x2 (minion)
Xeph x3
bat familiar
Dragondown grotto.
I don't have time to post all the details right now, if you want to know just tell me and im sure either Ryoga or I will post them. Basically he moved his DCs up while i shot acid arrows and MMs and the graycloaks picked away with suprising accuracy. By the time he based me 1 DC was dead and 1 was at about half HP and everything else was full on HP, and i had used silver fire already. Then i cast swords on his 2 doogies with the most hp and started moving away while he went all out on storm. Then i dimension doored across the map and at this point i hate about 50 points from ile and he coceded because next rpiund his 2 doogies would die and it would be 1 ult and 1 doogie at 20 hp versus 2 full hp graycloaks and a 65 hp archmage who could openly shoot at them as they crossed the map.
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I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 03/30/2007 12:19 PM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 03/29/2007 2:34 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/29/2007 2:29 PM
I can't imagine making an Ultroloth band without a canoloth. Fearless, and speed 10 make him and excellent include.
Teflon, I think that canoloth cost 10pts less but never replace the damage that can do an Duergar Champ, Canoloth just do 10 non-magic damages with +10 attack bonus and duergar do 30 magic damages with 12.5 atatck bonus.... I prefer a duergar champion instead, you need to do damages, not speed and melee reach 4.... What can do an canoloth against Marut? Nothing... What can do an Duergar Champ against Marut? A LOT! Thats the diference.... Thanks for your comment  Ryoga
I think that for -9 points having a fearless speedy hitter is an excellent investment. Bringing selective enemies closer who don't want to be closer (or attacking across pits) are also both very useful.
Against a Marut, I can:
Pull his bodyguard away
Pull the Marut into a pit
all while dealing 10 damage
Also, being immune to Acid certainly helps in the days of Large Blacks running around.
Mezzoloth wouldn't be a bad investment either.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2091 Posts
| | 03/30/2007 12:30 PM |
| | where are you seeing that canoloth is fearless? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 03/30/2007 12:50 PM |
| Posted By Nate_666 on 03/30/2007 12:02 PM
I beat Ryoga's Ultra-champs today on vassal. After he pummeled by dancer band on dragon graveyard i had a rematch using..
Archmage
Storm Silverhand
Graycloak x2
Wolf x2 (minion)
Xeph x3
bat familiar
Dragondown grotto.
I don't have time to post all the details right now, if you want to know just tell me and im sure either Ryoga or I will post them. Basically he moved his DCs up while i shot acid arrows and MMs and the graycloaks picked away with suprising accuracy. By the time he based me 1 DC was dead and 1 was at about half HP and everything else was full on HP, and i had used silver fire already. Then i cast swords on his 2 doogies with the most hp and started moving away while he went all out on storm. Then i dimension doored across the map and at this point i hate about 50 points from ile and he coceded because next rpiund his 2 doogies would die and it would be 1 ult and 1 doogie at 20 hp versus 2 full hp graycloaks and a 65 hp archmage who could openly shoot at them as they crossed the map.
Yeah I lost at last..... Im really happy about people espectation... After 22 consecutive wins I lost againts Nate666, congrat to Nate I really get FUN!
UltraChamps is very hard warband, canoloth is useless.
See ya the next time Nate.
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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SkYlyn3
Warrior
222 Posts
Williamsburg, Virginia
| | 03/30/2007 1:32 PM |
| | Auto: It wasn't a wolf, it was a Hyena, lol. I told you that band sucked. | |
Champion of Mohrg
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/31/2007 4:49 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/30/2007 12:19 PM I think that for -9 points having a fearless speedy hitter is an excellent investment. Bringing selective enemies closer who don't want to be closer (or attacking across pits) are also both very useful. Against a Marut, I can: Pull his bodyguard away Pull the Marut into a pit all while dealing 10 damage Also, being immune to Acid certainly helps in the days of Large Blacks running around. Mezzoloth wouldn't be a bad investment either.
Canoloths are not Fearless, even in an Ultraloth warband.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 03/31/2007 4:51 AM |
| Nice reports skeesh and Autoxdsm.Â
Its good to see some wirte ups on the Ultrachamps warband. Thanks.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 04/02/2007 3:58 AM |
| I ran this band:
Ultraloth
3 DCs
Diseased Dire Rat
Kobold Monk
Snig +sniglets.
I faced 4 bands on Saturday, going 3-1, only losing to invisidancers. A failed critical Inititave would have given me the advantage as I was within striking distance witt my Ultraloth's Dark Suggestion.
First Match I ran against Xenozepher (sp). I lost map choice and ended up on Dragondowngrotto. His Beholder Lich was my original target, but when I realized I could not get across effectivly, I went after Strahd. I think I changed tactics three times in the match. One critical mistake cost him Strahd as he bright him forward into the middle victory area. While standing in it, I killed him. WIN, margin was large.
Second Match was against a Greenfang team consisting of Aramil and a Owl Bear Ravager, Girillion and a firebelcher. I won map choice and used Hellspike. He kept everything grouped together, but left one fatal mistake. His Greenfang was able to get flanked and then surrounded. Aramil ran away from a Goblin Skirmisher, and the Ultraloth was bait. I ended up winning with a big margin.
Third Match was the Dancer band. I lost map choice but won placement. I then mistakenly gave him the correct area for his dancers. With so many walls to run around by, it was enough to do me in as they could just wait there for me to come to them. LOSS Margin of the loss was huge. My MVP's on the match were the gobbies as they (somehow) kept hitting with thier chucked spears.
Fourth match was against a Vampire Aristrocrat and his Horde Zombies and Large Black Dragon Pet. The Chimera never got off a cone of fear to do anything. My Champs mercelessly crunched through the Chimera and LBD. Snig went toe to toe with the Vampire... WIN.
All in all, a little tweaking on my gameplay and this band is effective. I just have to beat the dancers better. I think this band can do some good... or rather... EVIL. | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/02/2007 8:34 AM |
| I'm retarded, I thought the Ultroloth said it gave Yugoloths fearless, not hide. Never mind, ignore my ranting.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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DNDJUNKIE
Sergeant
498 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 6:35 PM |
| the other night i played core ultroloth duegar chapion x3 then i went with red hand war sorecerer kolbold monk rhws for enemies to get the -2 save verse ultraloths saves , offensive spells, and backup commander.
played against a firegiant band - took the band down pretty quickly giant failed ray of exaution spell
second bamd i faced was 4 monks and a young master - this was a little harder having to deal with the high ac's but by reduseing the damage output and taking out the young master quickly i won with only losing my monk and 2 dc's.
i like the rhws option | |
MY H/W LIST: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DNDJUNKIE
HERE IS MY NEW TRADE REF LIST : http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13587
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6037 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:07 PM |
| That sounds like a decent combo DNDJUNKIE.
I just played someone on vassal that used 2 ultroloths and 1 large green dragon (and fodder). I must say I was simply scared of what those ultroloths could do in 1 turn, the LGD is scarey enough, but when you start losing -2 to hit and -5 dmg before you engage after a bw... you sweat alot. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 1:54 PM |
| Â
You've got 5 beaters in there. You're down one activation, but still have a really good team. With the lower activations, you will probabally not get good map positions. I don't know. I still like the 3DCs and Fodder idea. More activations, means more control in the battle. | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
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