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Subject: Has the dust cleared yet ?

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Kypdurron
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Broken Hill

03/27/2007 6:22 PM  
So I was thinking that probably most people have played quite a few games with unhallowed stuff and I wanted other peoples opinions on the Top three ( 3 makes it hard 5 was easy ) pieces Skirmish wise from Unhallowed and the biggest dissappointment .... and a brief explaination if you want

1)Large Black Dragon .... He is easily the best costed dragon yet and is versatile enough to be competetive against all opponents only drawback is his to hit but meh you cant have everything.
2)Sky captain...He opens up an amazing amount of warband possiblilities for CG off the top of my head he has bought back to the fore HEBI, KORD(not that he ever left in my book )Frenzied Berserker s and countless others
3)Bone Naga,.... I think the potential of this guy is only just starting to be realised ... I hate playing against fearless spellcasters Probably the biggest hint for me as to how good this guy is ....is that my brother can't shut up about him or build a band without him in it !

Dissappointment....Van Richten  No good unless he's against undead and even then he isn't brilliant he has too much going on to be able to use all his abilities


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Big_Red
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03/27/2007 6:45 PM  
im gonna go with

1.ultraloth: what can i say, this guy has amazing abilities, great spells and can even stick in in the melee area if you are in a crunch. an all around great piece

2. skyfire captain: i have trouble making a good band in 200pt but in 500pt he is amazing, tordek with that extra attack is just disturbing

3. virtuous charger: combined with the wild elf warsinger this piece is devastating in both its mobility and damage

dissapointment.....beholder lich....i dont really see the point in this piece, i would play the old one over this one any day

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greyhaze
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03/27/2007 8:12 PM  
1. Cleric of Sune, an alternative to Storm.
2. Bat Familiar, great cheap versatile piece.
3. Cormyrean War Wizard, a spell caster that can really dish it out.

I'll add some honourable mentions: Shield Guardian, Vampire Dire Wolf, Large Black Dragon, Thrall of Blackrazor, Dwarf Battlerager, and Wild Elf Warsinger.

Disappointment, Strahd. He just stinks. He "offers" so much, but denies it with his outrageous cost and lack of logical abilities (flight and blindsight would have helped tremendously) and he lacks a decently cheap undead hitter to boost.  He has the stats of a Kolyarut, but has undead weaknesses, cmnd 7 and warband building undead which we've been waiting for - but for over 2x the cost...


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Nate_666
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Midwest

03/27/2007 8:21 PM  
1) Wild Elf Warsinger, she adds so much for 9 points and makes dancers good against SA immune creatures
2) Cormyrean War Wizard, the damage boost to spells is very solid, and 2 lines are good as well, plus he isn't as squishy as other casters
3) Ultroloth, a nice addition to LE, a well rounded unit that can bring the rest of a band together, although i believe the  peice that will make him shine is yet to come.

Other pieces that deserve mention are LBD, Thrall, and Bat Familiar.  Pieces I think need more testing are Large Astral construct, Asura, Vitrous Charger, Gorgon, Displacer beast manslayer, duergar slaver, devourer, high inquisiter, and beholder lich.

Disappointments are Strahd and Wizard of turmish (he just sucks unless you base your whole band around making him not suck).

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vanrulzz
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¯\(°_o)/¯

03/27/2007 8:48 PM  
numba 1: Ultro.  CRZY KEWL.
namba 2: Bat.  Kewl
numba 3: Warsinger.  kinda kewl.

Meh: Wizard of Turnips

SkYlyn3
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Williamsburg, Virginia

03/27/2007 8:52 PM  
1. Ultroloth: He is badass. Bottom line.
2. Sky Captain: makes the HEBI playable again
3. Stone Giant Runecarver: I think people will start to see how playable he is. Hopefully.

Disappointing: Strahd. Commander 7 for too many points and not that great a mini. On the serious "Meh" tip.

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USA

03/27/2007 9:27 PM  
Top 3:

1) Large Black Dragon - a great piece, especially when used 3 at a time
2) Ultraloth - a nice addition to LE
3) Tiefling Warlock - potentially some crazy auto damage wehn used in nunbers

Biggest dissapointment - Count Strahd, I wanted so much more out of him for the cost or just overcosted.Â



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The Fortress of Solitude

03/27/2007 10:47 PM  
Bat Familiar: nice for raising activations, good speed, can use touch spell for offence or defence

Wild Elf Warsinger: some very nice special abilities in a low-cost package

Cormyrean War Wizard: I wish some of the earlier spellcasters (Red Wizard, Silver Sorcerer, Elf Pyromancer) were as well-costed and survivable


To address the topic of the thread.  The dust has not yet cleared.  There is a lot of testing going on behind closed doors right now, but we should have a better picture after the first couple of qualifiers have been reported.

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Autoxdsm
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Myrtle Beach, SC

03/28/2007 2:20 AM  
Man I wanted to pick sooo much.

Cormyrean War Wizard: This guy puts out really good damage and paired with Storm he is AC19 45hp and Fearless. for a spell caster.

Ultroloth: Probably one of the best commanders in the last couple sets. He is the Storm Silverhand of LE.

Thrall of the Blackrazor: This guy has a lot of potential and his power is over looked by a lot of people. Devour Soul is simply godlike and he is fearless to counter his AC14. Oh and they gave him Haste for Sh*ts and giggles.

Disappointment:  I know people hate how he looks but I like him, Pentifex Monolith, but he could have been sooo much better with 1 more attack.

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Dordledum
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Netherlands

03/28/2007 3:26 AM  
1. Bat
2. Ultroloth
3. Large Black

with honorable mention for virtuous chargers and ice elementals, reasons as stated above. Biggest dissapointment: lack of reach 2 on WWL. 

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/28/2007 3:31 AM  
Posted By Dordledum on 03/28/2007 3:26 AM
Biggest dissapointment: lack of reach 2 on WWL. 

D.


Yes, the WWL could have been a new-age beater for CE.  The Ogre Ravager of 2007.  Without melee reach 2, it is merely good.

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Vrecknidj
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United States

03/28/2007 4:56 AM  
I think that the most versatile piece in the set, and perhaps therefore the most important to the game in the long run, is the Bat Familar. As far as picking the next two goes, it will be very hard to say. Some of the pieces will be excellent in the upcoming tournament season, but may disappear shortly thereafter, just like the Chraal did. So, with that in mind, it's a little harder to say. Over time, I think that the Cleric of Sune will emerge as a viable and important contribution to CG's arsenal of commanders, so I think that she deserves to be in the top 3. Of those that remain, it's hard to say, but for now I'm going to say it's the Large Black Dragon simply because it's so amazingly cheap for what it can be expected to do. However, this is the hardest call because if the meta it's in is filled with high AC pieces, it becomes far less effective.

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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/28/2007 7:26 AM  
Ultroloth: Great Commander, good spells and SA and Hit really good.... great advantage to LE. Im starting to think that this unit is undercosted.
Virtous charger: Finally good choice to silver hand warabnds, good spells to put an cheap bat familiar, good mobility and defense. Sorry about low attack bonus.
Thraal: This is a sample of new generation of CE hitters, good attack bonus, low defense, good damage and awesome Special skills, need some mastering to be used well but awesome piece...

Sculpt mencion: Pentifex monolith is one of most wonderfull sculpts of the set, Tsucora Quori is realle fearsome... looks good!!! and Werewolf lord, good pose and good stats.

Biggest dissapointment: The damage output of Tsucora quori, bad stats of pentifex, Giant RuneC bad scult and low original stats, and Gorgon have really bad stats!!

Thats my opinion
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ShadowLord XT
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Plane of Shadow

03/28/2007 8:27 AM  
1.Ultraloth: Awsome well rounded mini. Spells, dmg, commander rating, it's got a lot . It's almost got it all. Plus it looks cool.
2.Bone Naga: A great undead mini with awsome spells. Flesh to stone rocks. Beautifil mini.
3.Cormyrian War Wizard: Phalanx Spellcasting kills. Good repetoir (sp?) of spells. Neat idea with the elctro-stick.

Dissappointment: Strahd: Just too many points. And his face ain't even painted.

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JohnnyFive
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03/28/2007 9:09 AM  
So many good choices from everyone so far, but I'll have to go with:

1) Bat Familiar
Cheap activation control + less early round set-up = awesome.

2) Lyrandar Skyfire Captain

You can't put a price on opening up a significant part of CG's pieces into the current metagame. But if you had to, apparently it'd be 55 points.

3) Virtuous Charger

The Wild Elf Warsinger arguably derserves this spot, but there's nothing about her that hasn't already been said, so I've decided to herald this nice little piece. Though the attack bonus isn't optimal, utilizing Magic Weapon/Fang and this piece's amazing mobility helps set up flanks that mitigate the normally mediocre chance to hit. Being able to put down 45 points of damage on a piece that's 12 squares away is just too good to ignore for long.

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03/28/2007 9:23 AM  
My top three are easily the Large Black Dragon, Bat Familiar, and Ulotroloth. Though I think, based on the responses to this thread, that I can easily include the Lyrandard Skyfire Captain as the most overrated miniature in the set (with Thrall of Blackrazor being a close second based on personal conversations). Sure he has some sexy abilities, but I really doubt those abilities quite add up to how much of your warband he costs. Most of the other ones mentioned (Virtuous Charger, Cormyrean War Wizard, Cleric of Sune, and Wild Elf Warsinger particularly) I agree are equally intriguing, just not quite on the level of my Top 3. I would also like to throw in the Shield Guardian for honorable mention. Even if a perfect build hasn't been found for him, I suspect we are going to see quite a bit of him in the future...

I am not gone.

djtool
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Crystal MN, USA

03/28/2007 10:12 AM  
No order here:

Large Black Dragon - very well done. I like the boost to morale saves without the cheeziness of the wardrummer. His big disadvantage (attack bonus's) can be helped by his F10 speed...putting player skill in the driver seat

bat familiar: nice to give all factions a chance at more then 8 activations. Helps units with too many spells to get their butt in gear, there-by speeding up the game.

Werewolf lord: he's not the strongest skirmish piece in the world...but thank god newer players have access to a unit like this instead shying away from CE because they don't want to spend the money on an orc champ or an eye of Grummsh



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03/28/2007 3:08 PM  
In no particular order:

- Large Black Dragon. Level and speed 10, flying and a high damage cone, together with three attacks that deal 20 damage. He has only one weakness, maybe two with the lack of magic damage. For 44 points? And a morale-booster? I can field three LBDs together with a beefy commander like Ryld or the WWL? The Large Red Dragon cries bitter tears when he sees the LBD.

- Comyrean War Wizard: A spellcaster with a lof of hp and good AC, with several different energy types and dangerous lines, with Storm he´s fearless. Jesus, minis like the Red Spawn Arcaniss or the Tiefling Warlock just pale against him. Especially for the cheap cost. Oh, and two CWWs can slide their partner out of danger if one gets based. Wait, he throws 30 damage lightning bolts around if played smart and he can blast them through Bralanis and Storm without hurting them?

- Wild Elf Warsinger: erm...I´m speechless. 9 friggin points...yeah, right.

(sorry for the negative spin, but if these minis aren´t too good for their cost, I just don´t know...IMO... and why so much hp? 90 hp for the LBD and 45 for the War Wizard. I´d feel better about them if at least that was a bit lower. 80 hp and 35 wouldn´t be enough with their abilites?)

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Adelaide

03/28/2007 4:28 PM  
1) Bat familiar. Love this piece, and it's any faction.

2) Ultralolth. It's just solid.

3) Don't have a third :| Bone Naga, Black dragon, WWL, Tsucora, war singer and thrall are close toghther in my peference.

Bggest dissapointment... hmm easier to pick three here... strahd, intellect devourer (skimishwise only, I love haing a mini of it) & wizard of turds

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psistef
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03/28/2007 7:01 PM  

Has the dust cleared yet? I don't think so, at least not for me. I've barely begun to scratch the surface within LE, let alone amongst over factions.

Anyway, my tentative top three, although with the disclaimer that time will tell:

Ultroloth: A truly solid commander. Cripples titans and dragons, deals nice autodamage and holds his own when eventually based. Nice Commander Rating that will always add to morale saves. Dominate effect is cool, if rarely used. pricey, but worth it. DOn't know if he has quite that 'all in one bag' utility of Storm Silverhand, but he could.

Bat Familiar: Not the flashiest piece in the set, but could easily see enough use. He allows the use of touch spells that were rarely practical before, which is especially good when you consider that many would use the piece simply for the activation advantage. While I don't consider it the auto-include it was heralded as (but that happens every set) it has a place in many, many bands. Looks awesome too.

Large Black Dragon: Lotsa people talk trash about this piece owing to the low attack bonus, but I think that is to miss the point. If low attack bonuses could sink the piece, the Ogre Ravager couldn't have taken the Gold Champion off its perch oh-so-long-ago. And frankly, if you're not flanking with this piece you're playing it wrong.
With a breath weapon like that on a speed 10 platform, it is nigh impossible to defend against, and the battle goes down wherever they want. I would be surprised if we didn't see tri-LBD bands start to pop up in the high ranks.
The morale boost is also very nice, and brings a welcome alternative to the Wardrummer, another piece that seemed to attract the erroneous auto-include tag.

Honorable Mentions:
Wild Elf Warsinger: massive utility for 9pts, especially a damage boost, arguably the most important tech option of all. Could easily join Devis and Aramil in the 'you need a good reason not to include these guys' club.

Cormyrean War Wizard: Excellent blaster, surprisingly sturdy. Able to pump out a lot of damage quickly. Also boasts slide, one of the most powerful spells in the game. Running in pairs they can keep each other out of trouble. Great with Storm Silverhand.

Bone Naga: My own bias plays a part here. Love the faction, and have long itched for a non-commander utility spellcaster/blaster. This is it. Awkward to fit into a band, but I'm  confident it can be done.

Shield Guardian: Excellent utility piece. Adds a lot to both commanders and caster bands. Nice adaption of the Bodyguard concept.

Tiefling Warlock: Not too sure about this one yet. Love the autodamage x2. Love it, but haven't really tested it yet outside of sealed.

Dissapointments:

Strahd - offers lots, but for too much. Could've been a contender. Tsucora Quori - great concept, adds up to little on the battle field. Caller in Darkenss - same situation, except in paralyse-or-bust bands. High Inquisitor - speed kills. Van Richten - awful unless facing undead, when he's quite reasonable.







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Crow_Shaman
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03/28/2007 8:30 PM  
The morale boost is also very nice, and brings a welcome alternative to the Wardrummer, another piece that seemed to attract the erroneous auto-include tag.


I agree that the "auto-include" seems to be stuck to too many pieces too early, but the wardrummer comes pretty darn close. I personally don't feel comfortable in a CE warband unless A. I have a wardrummer B. My figures are largely fearless C. I have multiple LBDs. And don't forget, he is the only CE piece with countersong, which in todays commander effect heavy metas is very important. And if you don't need the moral bonus or countersong, than reduce your opponants' saves! I can't tell you how many games I've won because of him or that would have been much, much closer.

Anyway, on to my impressions of what the top 3 are:

1. Ultraloth

2. Bat Familiar

3. Cleric of Sune

Many honorable mentions, like Cormyrean War Wizard, Lyrandar Skyfire Captain, Virtuous Charger, Wild Elf Warsinger, and of course both the Mephits (I love those guys! Two breath weapons with that speed = early control! love it!!), Bone Naga, Tiefling Warlock, Large Black Dragon, .....well, this was a good set!

Disapointments: Strahd, Gorgon, Beholder Lich. The last two are just personal as I hate anything that's so frekin' random. Van Richten too. I wish he was more versatile.

CS

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Midwest

03/28/2007 9:10 PM  
I was just reminded of how dissapointed the Gorgon was.  In the preview time everyone was like "omg, a broken figure with an autokill cone, blah blah blah." Now after its here i have not seen anyone use it, It has too low speed to position its cone, and its slightly overcosted i think. (is about 10 points slightly?)

I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!

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03/28/2007 9:37 PM  
I knew the Gorgon would be overcosted, and i was right


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03/29/2007 8:57 PM  

Just got back from using Vlaakith, Vampiric Dire Wolf & Thrall of Blackrazor combo with Quaggoth, Cursed Spirit, 2x Skeletal Warrior, 1x Orc Warrior. (on Drow Outpost)

The band tested well, but, I did win map initiative each time.

The Vampiric Wolf hits for 30 and heals itself (and you can funnel enemies to it). Vlaakith can first move fireball or work his way into it.

But I was really impressed with the Thrall of Blackrazor.

1 - It can exceed it's current HP.
2 - It's accurate.
3 - It can move 16 and still attack for 20 magic (once).
4 - If activation control is gained, you can make it tough for the opponent to finish off the Thrall the right way.
5 - It's fearless, so it pairs well in bands that don't require a Wardrummer or great Command rating.  (either with Werewolf Lord, Vlaakith, or Lich Necromancer)

I think it's worth moving up to 16 and spending the haste attack even if it's just to clear a tile grabber and get the bonus HP.

The Thrall and Vamp wolf are tough to kill and do damage while Vlaakith picks off fireball wounded foes.  It's really not a bad band.

The Cursed Spirit helps with Disintegrate, Stun, Morale or "a new thrall" saves.

How's that Thrall of Blackrazor look with 85hp?  How about 105?   125?


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Portland OR

03/29/2007 11:19 PM  
I guess i'll go with some pieces not totally touted...since everyone covered the base 5-7

Vampire Dire Wolf... ummm fearless undead with DR and life drain at +14 for 25... hmmm... oh and speed 10... ohh... and stun dc 20!!! you can run but you can't... umm never mind you can't even run away...quite competitive.

Thrall of Blackrazor... 125 hp is easy to get... with a constructed warband he's easy to kill without triggering his abilities. a mid variance piece that is very very very tempting... 10 more hp and cleave and he's in... oh wait... he's fearless and CE has the cleric of grumish... what's he do again??? something???

Bone naga: Fearless, high ac, dr, spell res, undead fearless caster... does at least 15 dmg a round... 3 cones of cold!!! a little techy but could be devistating... when LE finally gets some good fodder with blockability look out... was Thee peice I wanted in sealed play (not perfect for sealed on second thought), will be powerful when you find the build for him. I'll be playtesting extensively soon.

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Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless
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