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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
    
Fort Mill, SC
 | | 04/03/2007 8:27 AM |
| OK - this thread is to discuss rarely considered Shadowdancer hate options. These ideas don't have to be tier-1, just something that might not regularly be considered. I have a few ideas, so I'll start:
Yuan-ti Half-Blood Sorcerer + Demonic Gnoll Priestess + Xen'drik Champion
* Basically, the idea is to give the Xen'drik Blindsight and a poisoned ranged weapon. Zap the Shadowdancers with poison and watch them slowly die. Not terribly efficient, but it could attrit them over time. As a bonus, the Yuan-ti has a line spell.
Aspect of Demogorgon
* This guy's damage output sucks with a capital "S", but with blindsight and dual activation, no invisible Shadowdancer can hide for long. He's got enough movement to get to them - now if only he had the damage output to make a difference. :-P
I'm guessing that Aasimar Favored Soul and Lantern Bearer (squishy, both) have already crossed people's minds, so I'll skip them.
What else do we have? Stuff that stuns (besides Gith monks) or that paralyzes could probably work well...
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
855 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:39 AM |
| | The Vampire Dire Wolf only gets hit for 10, and heals for 10 each time it hits (for 25 magic). | | | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 04/03/2007 8:44 AM |
| Posted By Gnolaum on 04/03/2007 8:39 AM The Vampire Dire Wolf only gets hit for 10, and heals for 10 each time it hits (for 25 magic).
Yeah - I've been considering a Vlaakith dual Vampire Dire Wolf band...
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:47 AM |
| Chasme, sleep em when they port in for the kill.
Marut only takes 10 and has blindsight if they're invisible... of course the defensive roll sucks, but with a Purple Dragon Knight in tow, you could morale check em while they're away from their commander... | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1067 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:48 AM |
| Spectre only takes 10, hits and heals for 10 and is incorporeal as well. I'd immagine it'd be a long game trying to kill anything though. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:59 AM |
| Howabout the Air Gensai Swashbuckler...
He's got that retributive Strike. He hits when you try to hit. | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/03/2007 9:00 AM |
| Helmed Horrors. Immune sneak attack, and blind-sight. Fly speed to boot.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 04/03/2007 10:47 AM |
| More Shadowdancers.
The Dragon Totem Hero is immune to flanking. Gee, I wonder what pieces you could put in a band with him...
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 04/03/2007 2:32 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/03/2007 10:47 AM More Shadowdancers. The Dragon Totem Hero is immune to flanking. Gee, I wonder what pieces you could put in a band with him... Dave
Dragons. Lots and lots of Dragons.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 04/03/2007 3:38 PM |
| You betcha. I'm liking DTH + LBDx3. It doesn't leave room for anything but fodder, but, the dragons aren't evil in this band, and so Bralanis don't do extra damage. And, the commander effect could actually pay off from time to time. Plus, the commander rating is roughly compatible with the likely ratings you'll find in CE bands. (Though using Ryld is a nice way of getting LBDs to go first in CE.)
Now, if you opt for only two LBDs with DTH, you have all kinds of interesting ways to fill out the band, from lots of tech, to low-cost hitters (such as Xen'dricks or Shadowdancers).
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 04/03/2007 4:21 PM |
| | How about Dread Warriors? A 10 pt piece that can withstand three Shadowdancer hits, and has a good chance of hitting them back. Oh, forget it, they're too slow to chase them down. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 04/03/2007 4:48 PM |
| | Can you defensive roll when asleep? | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Ice_Troll98
Sneak
154 Posts
In your closet
| | 04/03/2007 6:01 PM |
| No. you can't defensive roll when asleep.
I've been trying vlaakith and 4 or 5 gravetouched ghouls- they have the speed, do 10 dmg each, stun, and only take 10 a shot. couple with vlaakith and a beater to auto-crit when their paralyzed it's really actually pretty good. | |
I'm not afraid of competition, it's mind over matter.
I don't mind, and you don't matter | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 04/03/2007 8:01 PM |
| I'm thinking that any of the mounted attack options might prove good. Mounted Drow Patrol, Thundertusk Cavalry, Githyanki Dragon Knight.
The ability to make a double move, get the hit in, and move a little away might really make those Shadowdancers think twice.
Interestingly, Pushback could be a valuable mechanic. Once smacked, you could move them away from the wall, forcing them to take an AOO if they want to shadow step away.
Here's a question: has it been ruled that if Defensive Roll negates damage it (does or does not) negate special effects that are delivered with the damage? For example, Vlaakith's damage + paralyze...
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:17 PM |
| | It treats it as though the shadowdancers were never hit. No insta -kill with the death slaads either... | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Thrace
Sneak
51 Posts
West Chester, Ohio
| | 04/03/2007 10:29 PM |
| Undead and Constructs are immune to sneak attack, and critical hits. Elementals are immune to sneak attack, critical hits, and flanking.
Very basic, but obviously the most efficient ways to lock up Shadowdancers. But as for rarely considered, I'd suggest Zombie White Dragon, with a cone to make them come out of invisibility, and enough HP to stand up to 4 dancers for 3 rounds. Corpse Collector is as tough as the dragon, but it packs some intense heat.
I don't personally think that Corpse Collector is T1, but it's high time for a comeback of the Great White Pincousion. | |
Let's make a thread about it. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 04/04/2007 3:12 AM |
| Posted By BoloBaby on 04/03/2007 8:44 AM Posted By Gnolaum on 04/03/2007 8:39 AM The Vampire Dire Wolf only gets hit for 10, and heals for 10 each time it hits (for 25 magic). Yeah - I've been considering a Vlaakith dual Vampire Dire Wolf band...
I've played the following with nice success:
Vlaakith
Vampire Dire Wolf
Vampire Dire Wolf
Filler (Usually Sm Fire Elemental, Cursed Spirit, x2 Warrior Skeletons)
All Undead / Elemental, so very anti Shadowdancer.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 5:37 AM |
| Posted By Thrace on 04/03/2007 10:29 PM
Undead and Constructs are immune to sneak attack, and critical hits. Elementals are immune to sneak attack, critical hits, and flanking.
Very basic, but obviously the most efficient ways to lock up Shadowdancers. But as for rarely considered, I'd suggest Zombie White Dragon, with a cone to make them come out of invisibility, and enough HP to stand up to 4 dancers for 3 rounds. Corpse Collector is as tough as the dragon, but it packs some intense heat.
Why would the shadowdancers come out of invisibility when conned by the Zombie White? The Zombie White can't even move and cone in the same activation. And while they're invisible, no attack of opportunity. The ZWD will fly up and they'll just walk away. Unless of course you fly up at the end of your turn, then win initiative and cone them, but it's only like 10dmg... Large Black Dragon is much more effective.
The Cadaver Collector is an option, but you will need something to cone if the dancer's are invisible (maybe a gravehound or doogie champ), and most of the rest of the CC's warband is usually squishy, so the dancer's will probably go after them and then run away from the CC. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Thrace
Sneak
51 Posts
West Chester, Ohio
| | 04/04/2007 6:23 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/04/2007 5:37 AM
Why would the shadowdancers come out of invisibility when conned by the Zombie White? The Zombie White can't even move and cone in the same activation. And while they're invisible, no attack of opportunity. The ZWD will fly up and they'll just walk away. Unless of course you fly up at the end of your turn, then win initiative and cone them, but it's only like 10dmg... Large Black Dragon is much more effective.
The Zombie White is anti-shadowdancer tech, it's not a shadowdancer killer. I made a mistake in thinking that damage de-cloaks invisibile figures, but it's still 130 hitpoints of staying power that shadowdancers have no way of dealing with, whereas a Large Black can go down in the blink of an Eye of Gruumsh. | |
Let's make a thread about it. | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 7:11 AM |
| | Uhm, as a shadowdancer player, I would not engage the ZWD, avoiding it is much easier (who needs the 37pts?). | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1067 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 8:42 AM |
| | Agree with Greyhaze. With only moderate care in placement, you can ignore the Undead White with the Dancers. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/04/2007 8:44 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/04/2007 7:11 AM
Uhm, as a shadowdancer player, I would not engage the ZWD, avoiding it is much easier (who needs the 37pts?).
As a ZWD player, it's why I park him on a tile victory point area. Usually a shared area, too. My favorite is Drow Outpost, on the bridge.
yeah, the ZWD isn't the best tech against shadowdancers, but he does make a very effective divider of enemy forces. And he would stop a lot of point denial tricks...
Edit- Tile area, what was I thinking. Hello 2004, how are you today?
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 9:44 AM |
| A 37pt tile grabber? And the shadowdancers jump behind your blocker and kill whomever they like. Then he moves, they do another 40-80dmg, then they port out - I still don't see how the ZWD is tech vs the shadowdancers...
maybe a Devourer is, since it can grab them and pull them away from a wall, then eat em... hmm... devourer... | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 04/04/2007 12:16 PM |
| rarely considered shadowdancer counters? i have a wild one for you.
trog captain
dragonmark heir
grell
grell attacks at +11 when you put something stinky on a dancer. DC of paralyzation gets kicked up to 16.
bring it!!
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Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 1:55 PM |
| I wonder if the insurgance of Shadowdancers will bring back the Helmed Horror.....
I think the way to defeat the Dancers is BLINDSIGHT. | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/04/2007 5:51 PM |
| | If it were that simple the Marilith would have a fighting chance. I think it's gotta be blindsight on something that is immune sneak attack and can also fight/survive. The Marilith would just simply die or route. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 04/05/2007 3:16 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/04/2007 5:51 PM
If it were that simple the Marilith would have a fighting chance. I think it's gotta be blindsight on something that is immune sneak attack and can also fight/survive. The Marilith would just simply die or route. Yup, Marilith might have Blindsight, but she still has a low AC and is not immune to Flanking and Sneak Attacks. So she is not a very good answer to the Shadowdancers.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 04/05/2007 4:49 AM |
| | If there was a way to beef up the Helmed Horror, he's a good option. Wasn't he tier 1 once...? | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 04/05/2007 5:57 AM |
| Also consider Hellcats... if you can MW them, they are +14/+14 for up to 30 damage. They have blindsight, they resist fire, and they have Conceal 11 with a decent AC.
Unfortunately, the 60HP could be better, and it doesn't help them vs area damage or targeted spells... though I'm pretty sure they have SR.
Could be frustrating for Fire Giant Forgepriests and Shadowdancers alike.
I'm just not sure the best commander... Pit Fiend costs a ton, Blackguard can be taken out by Shadow Dancers... Almost no LE commander tops 80HP, has Blindfight or has Immune Flanking.
You also need to get MW on the Hellcat, which makes one of them a half decent partner to a Fire Giant Forgepriest... but then you're in another FGFP band.
Dark Moon Monk can MW a bunch of Hellcats.
These kitties are also vulnerable to Ray of Enfeeblement.
The other problem, on top of all of this, is fitting in a flying assassin type to clear out an enemy Aasimar or Lantern Bearer. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 04/05/2007 6:14 AM |
| I wonder if the insurgance of Shadowdancers will bring back the Helmed Horror.....
I think the way to defeat the Dancers is BLINDSIGHT.
I thought about playing triple helmed horror as a spoiler band for everyone that brings shadowdancers but what does the Helmed horror do about the Firegiant + ultroloth that is suppose to make a big impact. Also F6 might not be enough to keep up with everything in the Meta...everything is speed 8+ | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 04/05/2007 7:32 AM |
| The only thing with the Hell Cats is, sucky dmg. The shadowdancer defensive rolls 1 attack and it loses the rend, 10dmg total on only 1 shadowdancer for 40+pts. Yuck. But, all it's resistances and conceal 11 (why did this thing not get invisibility???) is pretty good as a target for the shadowdancers to have to avoid - however, what else is in your warband that can be picked off? Not as bad as the ZWD, but it still isn't quite good enough.
Well, if we're talking strictly vs dancers, may I present - lord soth. With immunity to sneak attack damage, blindsight, abyssal blast, high commander rating, WHO CARES about his low attack bonuses vs CG? 25mgc dmg and cleave...
Yes, lord soth would indeed be hate for the shadowdancers.
Come to think of it, the Archmage has a good chance vs dancers too. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/05/2007 9:18 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/04/2007 9:44 AM
A 37pt tile grabber? And the shadowdancers jump behind your blocker and kill whomever they like. Then he moves, they do another 40-80dmg, then they port out - I still don't see how the ZWD is tech vs the shadowdancers...
maybe a Devourer is, since it can grab them and pull them away from a wall, then eat em... hmm... devourer...
I didn't say it was good tech against it. But it's a good idea to consider if you expect a heavy SD meta. 37 points that they really can't kill, and must avoid. Get something else to counter, this is just good tech to save points and cause disruption of their game plan. To me, that's enough for an almost guaranteed safe 37 points.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 04/05/2007 11:17 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/05/2007 7:32 AM
The only thing with the Hell Cats is, sucky dmg. The shadowdancer defensive rolls 1 attack and it loses the rend, 10dmg total on only 1 shadowdancer for 40+pts. Yuck. But, all it's resistances and conceal 11 (why did this thing not get invisibility???) is pretty good as a target for the shadowdancers to have to avoid - however, what else is in your warband that can be picked off? Not as bad as the ZWD, but it still isn't quite good enough.
Well, if we're talking strictly vs dancers, may I present - lord soth. With immunity to sneak attack damage, blindsight, abyssal blast, high commander rating, WHO CARES about his low attack bonuses vs CG? 25mgc dmg and cleave...
Yes, lord soth would indeed be hate for the shadowdancers.
Come to think of it, the Archmage has a good chance vs dancers too.
Yeah... I hear ya.
Hellcats are a war of attrition, and the Ultraloth makes them worse if they get RoEd.
Two of them with a Pit Fiend do give the big guy reasonable screening. He can't be sneak attacked by invisidancers, and the cats can cover a lot of flanks if they stay near the Pit Fiend.
Plus, his AC is high enough that the dancers aren't guaranteed hits even at +15 on a flank.
He can also blashphemy the dancers to stun them where they stand (too bad they aren't L6), and the whole warband takes offensive power away from FGFP bands.
I wonder if Shadow Dancers will be as popular as everyone worries about though...
It seems like a band that is already distasteful to play, and if anything goes wrong for them, they aren't all that hard to take out after spending their defensive roll. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 04/05/2007 3:07 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 04/05/2007 7:32 AM
Come to think of it, the Archmage has a good chance vs dancers too.
At XP, both Archmage warbands lost to Shadowdancer warbands. Granted it's only 2 games, but I'm not sure that the Archamge will do that well versus Shadowdancers.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 04/05/2007 3:40 PM |
| | Helmed Horror and Maug come to mind immediately. Shield Gaurdian is a close second (with a surviavable commander), eye of grumish is immune to flanks, storm rage shambler anyone??? Bone naga and the aforementioned devourer... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
|
Thrace
Sneak
51 Posts
West Chester, Ohio
| | 04/05/2007 3:59 PM |
| | Kolyarut laughs in the face of shadowdancers. 10 damage a swing, high AC, and a construct to boot. They don't have the speed to chase down Dancers, but they can stand up to them for two full rounds, and life drain will force defensive roll if the dancers want to kill one. | |
Let's make a thread about it. | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 04/05/2007 4:08 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 04/05/2007 3:07 PM Posted By greyhaze on 04/05/2007 7:32 AM
Come to think of it, the Archmage has a good chance vs dancers too. At XP, both Archmage warbands lost to Shadowdancer warbands. Granted it's only 2 games, but I'm not sure that the Archamge will do that well versus Shadowdancers.Â
I'm not at all surprised by this result. Archmage is a terrible match for multi-dancer bands. AM is a titan-killer (especially one that moves slowly and doesn't fly). Against dancers, well, a couple of sneak attacks and he could be running. A couple more, and he could be dead. Of course, there's still the outside chance of the dancers rolling poorly on their conceal checks, but still.
I suspect that a dancer band would take an AM band 8 or 9 times out of 10, if both bands were in capable hands (maybe less so if a lot of the matches take place on grotto). | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/06/2007 9:23 AM |
| I'm thinking the HH might be making the comeback to tier 1 based on the prevalence of dancers.
Maugs too... but mostly as a secondary hitter to balance the HH's weakness.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 04/06/2007 9:29 AM |
| Side question regarding the Shadowdancers and rules (needed for developing strategy). The edges of the map, except at exit squares, are considered walls. Are the Shadowdancers, then, able to use the map edges for shadow jumping?
Edit: found my answer - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11239663Â (in a nutshell, yes) | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 04/06/2007 11:51 AM |
| Posted By Faragdar the Wise on 04/06/2007 9:29 AM Side question regarding the Shadowdancers and rules (needed for developing strategy). The edges of the map, except at exit squares, are considered walls. Are the Shadowdancers, then, able to use the map edges for shadow jumping? Edit: found my answer - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11239663Â (in a nutshell, yes)
Faragdar - I read and re-read the old post and I'm not sure you are correct. If I understand it correctly, they were only talking about a particular map (temple side and hellside??? of the Broken Demongate). And it was discussed / ruled earlier in the post that unless there is particular artwork depicting a wall, then the edge of the map is not a wall.Â
Per Guy:
"The official rule is that the only map edges that count as walls are those that have wall artwork on them. In other words, large sections of map edges for lots of the maps *aren't* walls.
Orion72's issue is that the map edges on the Broken Demongate aren't clear in terms of the art. There might be wall art along some of the edges, but it's hard to tell."Â
Any comments?
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