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Subject: Sick of 8 activations?

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Vrecknidj
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04/08/2007 2:20 PM  
Large Silver Dragon
Marut
Hill Dwarf Warrior

My new band.  The Large Silver flies to a victory area, the Marut eventually catches up, and then I hope I win.



Dave

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Faragdar the Wise
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Albuquerque, NM, USA

04/08/2007 3:28 PM  
Absolutely. Sometimes to you just have to sacrifice activations to play what you want.

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04/08/2007 4:41 PM  
Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/08/2007 2:20 PM
Large Silver Dragon
Marut
Hill Dwarf Warrior

My new band.  The Large Silver flies to a victory area, the Marut eventually catches up, and then I hope I win.



Dave

Actually, that does not sound too bad.  Maybe on the Drow Outpost.  Better yet, Kings Road (Shadowdancer hate).  Of course with no commander you'll have a fat chance of getting the map you want.Â

But still, that's a lot of hit points, 2 Breath Weapons, Blindsight, and high AC.Â



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The Fortress of Solitude

04/08/2007 5:34 PM  
The Marut and LSD could certainly take a while to kill. Heck, this warband ain't half-bad. You'll definitely be getting tile points for a while. Looks like it could take on Dancers pretty well too.

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Zyla
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04/08/2007 6:27 PM  
Alot of people are too caught up in the "must have 8 activations" mindset when making a warband. 8 activations is good if it has a benefit to the warband, there is no point in reducing a good 6 activation band to 8 activations when those extra 2 activations wont do anything for the warband, and will in fact make it weaker.


scruffydude7
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Rock Hill, SC

04/08/2007 7:23 PM  
How about:

Large Silver Dragon
Ulmo Lightbringer

Similar to the Marut idea, but depends a lot more on enemies failing paralysis and stun saves. Also, Ulmo can keep up with the LSD a bit better.

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vanrulzz
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¯\(°_o)/¯

04/08/2007 7:42 PM  
is there any way to increase Tickle me Ulmo's damage?  if it werent for the 5 damage strikes i would use him.

Vrecknidj
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04/08/2007 7:47 PM  
Ulmo can do a lot more on a stunning attack if he's under the Young Master's command.

He's a monster when he gets a flank.

I posted another Ulmo option in another thread.

Dave

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vanrulzz
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¯\(°_o)/¯

04/08/2007 7:50 PM  
Doh!  Just noticed +15 sneak atk, holy crap.

Vrecknidj
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04/08/2007 8:07 PM  
Posted By vanrulzz on 04/08/2007 7:50 PM
Doh!  Just noticed +15 sneak atk, holy crap.


Exactly.  Now you see his value.

Quite the dude.  Nice high level, awesome AC, etc.  The only drawback is the relatively low hit points--that, and he HATES constructs.

Dave


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Thrace
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West Chester, Ohio

04/09/2007 12:39 AM  
105 Pit Fiend
94 Steel Predator

Graa!

Let's make a thread about it.

Vrecknidj
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04/09/2007 5:47 AM  
I saw that one too Thrace. I was looking through the factions for different low-activation combos. That's another gross-looking combo.

Dave

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Sector 2814

04/09/2007 9:14 AM  
Yeah, that looks mean, and I think Drow Outpost would be really strong for it.

Really, Fire damage is the only worry it would have. Horrors, Octo-skull, Vlaakith. Anything with fire damage would be a bad matchup.

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Faragdar the Wise
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Albuquerque, NM, USA

04/09/2007 9:27 AM  
What about good old Elminster + Archmage or Archmage x2 + Xeph?

Hill Giant Chieftain, Hill Giant Barbarian, Ogre x2

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jacksonm
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River City

04/09/2007 2:00 PM  
I won a 200 point sanctioned tournament and took out our best local player with this fantastic foursome. Fire Giant Forgepriest, 2 Redspawn Fire Belchers, and a Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat.

Sirohk
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04/09/2007 3:35 PM  

How about:

 

Lord Soth 98

Beholder Lich 64

Chraal 35

Warrior Skeleton 3

 

200 well spent points.Â

 

Good luck killing this warband.  Abysmal Blast, Wariior Skeleton to traget Chraal BW on Invisible warbands.  Beholder Lich on 6 or more can Heal up Soth.Â


 


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alepulp
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Manchester, England

04/09/2007 4:44 PM  
I like this one:

Fire Giant(117),Beholder(83)

A nice blocker

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04/10/2007 4:25 AM  

Lord Soth
Steel Predator
Greenspawn Sneak
Map: Hellspike

CR6 gives you a good shot at map and side.  Using the forward start area, you can use the Steel Predator for a first turn sonic cone on the opposing warband followed up by the abyssal blast from Soth.

 


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froffenhoffer
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04/10/2007 5:37 AM  
FGFP
Cad collector
fodder

Or.

War trollx2
gauth for paralyze
kobold miner
kobold sorcerer.

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iluvxtina
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04/10/2007 1:09 PM  
Only an example:beholder-soth.Low activations and a high victory ratio.Not a tier 1 warband but very low activations and competitive

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Vrecknidj
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04/11/2007 7:08 AM  
Beholder plus Lord Soth qualified in a few places, if I recall--two years ago. And, I know that it was a powerful spoiler band back then. It was awfully hard to kill Soth at the time because there wasn't much that could do enough damage fast enough to thwart the Beholder's ability to heal him. This was back in the days of 12-activation bands, so it wasn't uncommon to see a huge pile of fodder get wasted by the abyssal blast, and that evened things up. And, it was back in the days of tiles, so it wasn't too hard to get excellent placement and make the Beholder that much harder to get to.

Dave

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Vrecknidj
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04/11/2007 7:11 AM  
Last night, I was surprised that this band did as well as it did:

Solar
Couatl
Arcane Ballista
Timber Wolf
map: Dragondown Grotto

The Ballista took out a Black Dragon in a single hit (35 damage + 10 fire + failed morale check). The snake's swiftness put another one at 45 (passed morale). The Solar took a shot at a 95-hp Werewolf Lord (thanks to the T-Wolf) with the Slayer Arrow and the WWL failed. So, that was basically game.

On Hellspike, it would have been a different story, I think. But, with Commander 5, the Solar band is reasonably likely to win its map and that screws the Triple Black band (and hurts UltroForge as well--though the Dragonmark can make the FGFP immune to the cold bolt and that helps a lot; still, 35 damage a pop is nothing to laugh at).

Dave

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Dordledum
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Netherlands

04/11/2007 9:11 AM  
Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/11/2007 7:11 AM
Last night, I was surprised that this band did as well as it did:

Solar
Couatl
Arcane Ballista
Timber Wolf
map: Dragondown Grotto

The Ballista took out a Black Dragon in a single hit (35 damage + 10 fire + failed morale check). The snake's swiftness put another one at 45 (passed morale). The Solar took a shot at a 95-hp Werewolf Lord (thanks to the T-Wolf) with the Slayer Arrow and the WWL failed. So, that was basically game.

On Hellspike, it would have been a different story, I think. But, with Commander 5, the Solar band is reasonably likely to win its map and that screws the Triple Black band (and hurts UltroForge as well--though the Dragonmark can make the FGFP immune to the cold bolt and that helps a lot; still, 35 damage a pop is nothing to laugh at).

Dave

Couatl +  Arcane ballista on Dragondown Grotto. If my opponent plays it, I'd give up once map init is lost.

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Valter
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Berlin, Germany

04/14/2007 11:57 AM  

Give up?
Why would you do that?

None of the pieces has Blindsight, so conceal can do wonders...
Forest squares also can not be shot at, if not adjacent to.

Thanks for reading,
Valter.


Vrecknidj
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04/14/2007 12:02 PM  
Posted By Valter on 04/14/2007 11:57 AM

Give up?
Why would you do that?

I'm pretty sure he's just referring to his odds. And, admittedly, they're pretty bad in that case (well, I have a hunch what he's playing is why I say that).
None of the pieces has Blindsight, so conceal can do wonders...
Forest squares also can not be shot at, if not adjacent to.
That's not true.

The Forest Terrain clarifications say:

forest: (terrain) Forest squares are considered difficult terrain. Forest provides cover against ranged attacks. A creature in a forest square has cover against melee attacks unless the attacker is adjacent to a nonforest square in the creature's space. (Reminder: Melee Reach attacks count as ranged attacks for purposes of all cover rules, including these.) Line of sight (but not line of effect) is blocked if the line touches a corner of a forest square or 2 edges of the same forest square. A creature can still trace line of sight to creatures and squares in its own space as well as to adjacent creatures and squares.
Additional Forest clarifications:
Blindsight does not allow a creature to see through forest. The Blindsight glossary definition lists the things that it counters, and neither Forest terrain nor the effects of Forest terrain are among those things.
Against ranged attacks and Melee Reach attacks, a large or larger creature always gets cover from forest terrain when it's in at least one square of forest terrain.
Against non-Melee Reach melee attacks, a large or larger creature always gets cover when it is entirely in forest.
However, a large or larger creature is only partially in forest gets cover only if the attacker isn't adjacent to a nonforest square in the creature's space.
If forest gives a creature cover versus all adjacent enemies' melee attacks, that creature can move without provoking AoOs, can make ranged attacks, and can cast non-touch spells even if it is threatened by those enemies.


Dave

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My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right!

Valter
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Berlin, Germany

04/14/2007 12:33 PM  

OK, but Guy himself answered at least four posts about forest (they are all in his archived section, somewhere on page 26 and further) and said as much:

You can not shoot out or into a forest square if your (medium sized or smaller) mini is not adjacent to the one (also medium sized or smaller) you are shooting at.

That is just mine practical interpretation of the whole forest terrain clarification.

Of course I have no idea what warband the previous poster is playing, but I play only medium or smaller sized minis - so the "cover from forest and large creatures" section is something I forgot to say since I never use it for myself (the opponent does, naturally).

With conceal I meant pieces that inherently have it, like Duergar Champion and the like.


Valter.


Vrecknidj
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04/14/2007 1:54 PM  
Posted By Valter on 04/14/2007 12:33 PM

You can not shoot out or into a forest square if your (medium sized or smaller) mini is not adjacent to the one (also medium sized or smaller) you are shooting at.

Yikes! That looks like a invalidation of the ruling that's in the latest FAQ. My own best guess is that a judge at an event would look at the two rulings and go with the more recent one.

Dave

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My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right!

Valter
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Berlin, Germany

04/15/2007 12:55 AM  
Hi,

The thing was (and it hasn't changed since then - I just didn't get it right) that a mini can't shoot at anything that it doesn't have line of sight to.
The (for me and my buddies - hard to understand) sentence in the forest clarification about lines touching corners and sides says just that (LoS is not "Line 12)":

If one medium sized (or smaller) mini sits in a forest square and there are no adjacent creatures to it, there is no LoS originating to or from it (that square) because a line would surely touch a corner of a forest square (reply to CarnivalKid on 10-29-2006, the only one I have printed on paper).

It is not just my interpretation because the post was dated somewhere in october 2006 and the forest clarification was the same then. Guy also elaborated specific examples:

Ballista sits entirely in forest and a Hill Giant Barbarian is adjacent to it (no matter if also in forest or out) - the ballista can shoot at the adjacent HGB because it has cover from it. It couldn't shoot at all if there were no adjacent creatures because there would be no LoS to or from it (it sits entirely in forest).

A diagram where a medium sized archer creature sits in a forest square and wants to shoot someone outside and not adjacent. Guy said it can't because there is no LOS between them. The archer creature in forest needs to be adjacent to an enemy to shoot it (or step out of the forest).

There were at least three similar posts where someone asked almost the same question and the answer was always NO.

If the latter ballista were to be partially in forest (with, say 1 square not in) it could shoot out at anything it has a LoS from that free corner. It could also be shot at (with +4 AC because the other 3 forest squares would provide cover).

I will try and find the posts again and print them ALL out since there seems to be quite an ambiguity originating from the forest "clarification".

Me and my buddies played forest up to two weeks ago like the following:
A (medium sized or smaller) creature in an outer forest square has LoS from the outer corners of the square and other creatures have LoS to it in a similar manner. It has cover (melee and ranged). If the creature sits in "deep forest" (one square deeper in, or in a odd forest square surrounded by other forest quares) then no-one has LoS to it and it has no LoS.

The way it is now completely changes how an Archmage and ranged bands are to be played on such maps.

Thanks for reading,
Valter.


Later edit:
in the Wizards official DnD minis forum under "Guy's rulings archive" under page 11 anyone can see for themselves what he said. There are three posts that explain the ambiguity quite clearly. You have to activate the "show threads older than 30 days" option in "My Profile" to see them.
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