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dorge
Sergeant
417 Posts
    
 | | 05/06/2007 10:32 PM |
| Vlaakith
Vampire Dire Wolf x2Â Â
Gravehound
Skelatol Gnoll
Warrior Skeleton x3
Just want some input on this band?
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SLIPKNOT-WAIT & BLEED
SLIPKNOT-(SIC) | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/06/2007 11:31 PM |
| Looks pretty mean. The damage output might be a little low for CE. The VDW are good but I really think for 96pts you can get in some big beaters that will put out more damage but still pretty vicious.
96pts for 2x VDW or 97pts Werewolf Lord and Large Black Dragon
And Gravehound sounds cool but I am not sure it wins the spot over a Quaggoth Slave.
I guess I just play CE with all aggressive pieces instead of tech. (Except I love the deathlock!) | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 05/07/2007 3:20 AM |
| Posted By dorge on 05/06/2007 10:32 PM
Vlaakith
Vampire Dire Wolf x2Â Â
Gravehound
Skelatol Gnoll
Warrior Skeleton x3
Just want some input on this band?
Welcome to the Boards!Â
IMO that's a solid warband. You'll give all the CG Storm PORC warbnds fits being Undead. And if you can get a first round Fireball off, woot. I have played a similar warband with some good success.Â
My only suggestions would be to put in a Cursed Spirit in place of the Gravehound - Incoporal can just frustrate an opponent to death. And I might be tempted to use a Hunting Hyena in place of the Gnoll Skleleton for a fast tile grabber.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 05/07/2007 4:19 AM |
| I say keep the Gravehound and play on the Ratfang Sewers. An effectively DC18 stun effect can really pay dividends.
Dump the skellies for Orc Warriors if you have them, though. Dollars to donuts they're a better deal.
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/07/2007 10:59 AM |
| Welcome!
Looks fun, I really want the VDW to work. We'll see, though.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 05/07/2007 1:22 PM |
| Posted By BoloBaby on 05/07/2007 4:19 AM
I say keep the Gravehound and play on the Ratfang Sewers. An effectively DC18 stun effect can really pay dividends.
Dump the skellies for Orc Warriors if you have them, though. Dollars to donuts they're a better deal.
Not necessarily. Under Vlaakith's CFX, the warrior skeletons do the same damage as an orc warrior (although the orc warriors have better a better attack bonus and are more useful against paralyzed things). But the main reason to use warrior skeletons is prevent those pesky thralls of blackrazor from gaining extra hp and the werewolf lord from gaining fearless. | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 05/07/2007 2:25 PM |
| Those are excellent points, Richard II - and, admittedly, ones I hadn't considered.
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 05/07/2007 3:42 PM |
| I'm really waiting until a good 30-50ish undead beater comes out before trying the lich queen again in serious play. VDW comes close, but I think the damage is a little lacking, but if he had two attacks it would be great. Next set when lady vol comes out we will need to completely analyze undead again but right now as far as undead and the lich queen go you can probably find all the succesful bands in the tourney thread. But who knows, you might have some NOST, or some unique way to play a band that makes it better, but if your gonna play CE i would run at least two LBD's right now because they are just too good.  Back on topic I think you should include cursed spirit(s) in the band and on rat fang sewers because you could lower opponents saves by 4? She might prove to be useful for CE constructs too if any of those show up that are competative.
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I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 05/07/2007 3:49 PM |
| Check out my Vlaakith Testing thread for a pretty good warband!
well someone pointed out that 2VDW are 96 and WWL and Large black are 97... what do else do you put with
Vlaakith
WWL
Large Black
???
24pts isn't much but lots of undead fodder is preferable obviously... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/07/2007 11:16 PM |
| Vlaakith
WWL
Large Black
Quaggoth Slave
Timber Wolf
Warrior Skeletons x3
200/8act
Map, maybe Keep of the Fallen King, Drow Outpost or Kings Road.
Looks good to me. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 05/08/2007 7:36 AM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/07/2007 11:16 PM
Vlaakith
WWL
Large Black
Quaggoth Slave
Timber Wolf
Warrior Skeletons x3
200/8act
Map, maybe Keep of the Fallen King, Drow Outpost or Kings Road.
Looks good to me. I'm not sure about this. While Vlaakith, the Werewolf Lord, and the Large Black Dragon are all good pieces, I just don't see much synergy between them. Vlaakith has a fireball to take out fodder, the werewolf lord wants to kill fodder so become fearless, and the Large Black Dragon has a line to kill stuff. I suppose the combo of fireball or line + cleave could be useful, but both the Werewolf lord and Large Black Dragon don't do magic damage, which may not be a big deal in some situations, but in others it can be downright crucial. I suppose you could try to use a map like Hailstorm Tower to get the magic circle, but that map has poor LoS for first phase fireballs. Also, using the Werewolf lord and large black, you do add some randomness to the band between the large black's less than awesome attack bonuses and the lack of fearlessness of the large black as well as the werewolf lord.
It's not to say that the warband is bad, but it just looks to me more like a bunch of good pieces thrown together without really gaining much from each other, although they do do some complementary things. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 05/08/2007 8:38 AM |
| Posted By Richard II on 05/08/2007 7:36 AM Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/07/2007 11:16 PM
Vlaakith
WWL
Large Black
Quaggoth Slave
Timber Wolf
Warrior Skeletons x3
200/8act
Map, maybe Keep of the Fallen King, Drow Outpost or Kings Road.
Looks good to me. I'm not sure about this. While Vlaakith, the Werewolf Lord, and the Large Black Dragon are all good pieces, I just don't see much synergy between them. Vlaakith has a fireball to take out fodder, the werewolf lord wants to kill fodder so become fearless, and the Large Black Dragon has a line to kill stuff. I suppose the combo of fireball or line + cleave could be useful, but both the Werewolf lord and Large Black Dragon don't do magic damage, which may not be a big deal in some situations, but in others it can be downright crucial. I suppose you could try to use a map like Hailstorm Tower to get the magic circle, but that map has poor LoS for first phase fireballs. Also, using the Werewolf lord and large black, you do add some randomness to the band between the large black's less than awesome attack bonuses and the lack of fearlessness of the large black as well as the werewolf lord. It's not to say that the warband is bad, but it just looks to me more like a bunch of good pieces thrown together without really gaining much from each other, although they do do some complementary things.
Richard II is right on the money.Â
And I'll agree with another poster that Vlaakith really needs its own 30 ish point beater to really be effective (or a decent Githyanki fighter type in that cost range). You need Undead to take advantage of Vlaakiths CFX, and Undead do not benefit from the LBD's Enforcer ability, so no synergy there. Â
And I'm not sold on the WWL. No MW, no Reach, and needs to get Fearless or he may run. So I would tend not too combine him in Vlaakith warband as you really do not need the 2nd commander.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/08/2007 9:00 AM |
| I definitely understand what you are saying and you are right all it is a bunch of good pieces thrown together because I think they are better than 2 vamp dire wolves.
I love the VDW and vlaakith is definitely the commander for them. I just don't think they are better beaters than some of the other pieces in CE right now. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 05/08/2007 9:07 AM |
| | Throwing in a Burning Skeleton as a Fireball target with all the invisibility floating around might not be a bad idea. | | | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 05/08/2007 9:32 AM |
| Posted By jacksonm on 05/08/2007 9:07 AM
Throwing in a Burning Skeleton as a Fireball target with all the invisibility floating around might not be a bad idea. What invisibility? Where? I don't see it...
(Ha - not a bad idea, though.)
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 05/08/2007 10:05 AM |
| that's unfortunatly what i feared it would be... it just almost hit perfectly point wise. I still like Vlaakith, VDW, thrall (or other hitter, Red Samurai perhaps) with undead fodder.
where is the next just plain old githyanki? We havn't seen a 10pt githyanki piece yet and we havn't seen a good mid-range beater from them yet. And one more viable undead beater would be nice as well... soon soon my minions... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 05/08/2007 1:15 PM |
| Posted By Richard II on 05/08/2007 7:36 AM Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/07/2007 11:16 PM
Vlaakith
WWL
Large Black
Quaggoth Slave
Timber Wolf
Warrior Skeletons x3
200/8act
Map, maybe Keep of the Fallen King, Drow Outpost or Kings Road.
Looks good to me. I'm not sure about this. While Vlaakith, the Werewolf Lord, and the Large Black Dragon are all good pieces, I just don't see much synergy between them. Vlaakith has a fireball to take out fodder, the werewolf lord wants to kill fodder so become fearless, and the Large Black Dragon has a line to kill stuff. I suppose the combo of fireball or line + cleave could be useful, but both the Werewolf lord and Large Black Dragon don't do magic damage, which may not be a big deal in some situations, but in others it can be downright crucial. I suppose you could try to use a map like Hailstorm Tower to get the magic circle, but that map has poor LoS for first phase fireballs. Also, using the Werewolf lord and large black, you do add some randomness to the band between the large black's less than awesome attack bonuses and the lack of fearlessness of the large black as well as the werewolf lord. It's not to say that the warband is bad, but it just looks to me more like a bunch of good pieces thrown together without really gaining much from each other, although they do do some complementary things.
Slight correction- The WWL wants to kill something, but it doesn't matter what. Enough ranged auto damage may allow the WWL to kill a more durable piece in roughly the same time frame, while applying the damage to a more key piece and doing more damage to your opponant's ability to deal damage back to you. I'm not by any means saying that the listed band is obtimum, and in general fodder is a good thing for the WWL, but its arguable that there is some synergy there as well- the auto damage can allow the WWL to gain fearless by killing an enemy titan/hitter.
Put another way, a failed fireball save could allow the WWL to kill a duergar champ in a full attack and still gain fearless instead of having to spend one of his attacks to kill a fodder, which seems a far more useful placement of 25 damage (at least to me). | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 05/08/2007 2:35 PM |
| | You are not going to use wardrummer?With vlaakith works really fearsome | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 05/09/2007 6:47 AM |
| Posted By dorge on 05/06/2007 10:32 PM
Vlaakith
Vampire Dire Wolf x2Â Â
Gravehound
Skelatol Gnoll
Warrior Skeleton x3
Just want some input on this band?
  Â
I've run Vlaakith, Vamp Wolf, Thrall, Quaggoth, Cursed Spirit, WS x2 and Orc Warrior.
Good band. A variation finished in the top four at the Pittsburgh Qualifiers from what I read in the reports.
Vlaakith has low to lowish command, so units that are fearless, or that can become fearless, don't need big command to stay around.
Vlaakith likes to start off with an early fireball. If he gets it, you will soften the enemy beaters and lower their activations, which makes it a lot easier to get a win.
The Vamp Wolf can be a great blocker unless the opponent can rout it with a Chill Touch (watch out for Rakshasas). It's hard to focus enough attacks on the wolf at once to kill it before it can get some health back. If the opponent is featuring Zaykas, damaging them with a fire ball makes them vulnerable to death by disintegrate, so hopefully you can weigh that to your advantage. The Vamp Dire Wolf is accurate and hits for 30 magic damage with Vlaakith's command effect.
I like combining the Cursed Spirit with Stun, New Thrall, or Disintigrate attempts.
If the opponent focuses on the Vamp Wolf, the Thrall can run around, fearless, eating up any low cost living units to boost it's HP.
A thrall with 125 HP is a scary opponent.
The Vamp Wolf and Thrall are good pairs for Vlaakith because the hit hard enough to avoid being ignored (especially with help from Stun on the wolf), but they can't be easily run off or killed. (although the Thrall certainly doesn't like a full round attack from the faster LBD)
This band is strong but in the current meta, it suffers somewhat vs multiple LBDs, which are immune to Vlaakith's paralysis, have high saves, and have just the right abilities to get rid of the Thrall without risking "new thrall".
I do like the Vlaakith band vs a lot of the Storm bands, which seem to be showing up more often than LBDs. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 05/10/2007 5:41 AM |
| Vlaakith is actually pretty cool. I keep thinking about ways to build competitive bands around her.
Vlaakith
Large Black Dragon x2
Cursed Spirit x2
Hyena x2
Warrior Skeleton
The LBDs do what they do best. And, from what we've seen so far this year, they're pretty good at doing it. Vlaakith, of course, is there for the spell support and the fun that comes later. The Cursed Spirits are fighting at +8 (10 magic) when near Vlaakith, and, since they should be flanking given their flexibility, that's +10 (10 magic) -- not bad for 11 points.
Given that Sacred Watchers don't seem to be prevalent right now, I'm not so worried about the Cursed Spirits (or Vlaakith for that matter). If they return, however, then this band is in trouble. And, while the Zakya Rakshasa could be a problem, two LBDs should be able to spoil their fun.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 05/10/2007 6:47 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 05/10/2007 5:41 AM
Vlaakith is actually pretty cool. I keep thinking about ways to build competitive bands around her.
Vlaakith
Large Black Dragon x2
Cursed Spirit x2
Hyena x2
Warrior Skeleton
The LBDs do what they do best. And, from what we've seen so far this year, they're pretty good at doing it. Vlaakith, of course, is there for the spell support and the fun that comes later. The Cursed Spirits are fighting at +8 (10 magic) when near Vlaakith, and, since they should be flanking given their flexibility, that's +10 (10 magic) -- not bad for 11 points.
Given that Sacred Watchers don't seem to be prevalent right now, I'm not so worried about the Cursed Spirits (or Vlaakith for that matter). If they return, however, then this band is in trouble. And, while the Zakya Rakshasa could be a problem, two LBDs should be able to spoil their fun.
Dave
That's actually a decent looking warband. If Vlaakith gets of her Fireball early to take out some fodder and damage the hitters, all the better.  There are two speedy tile grabbers in there. And the two Cursed Spirits can be very annoying.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/10/2007 9:20 AM |
| It actually looks pretty good. I've been trying to find a solid use for VDW, and this looks promising.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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