Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
    
Flint, Mi
 | | 05/10/2007 8:35 AM |
| I feel the Cleric of Sune is a good piece though its commander effect can be iffy. At the same time though it can really be useful.
I've been trying to devise a warband around her that doesnt consist of frenzieds. One army I think can have some potential consists of:
Cleric of Sune
3x Longstrider Ranger
1x Goliath Barbarian
1x Graycloak Ranger
   -wolf minion
1x Wild Elf Warsinger
1x Changeling Rogue
Its versatille, hits rather hard especially when charging, my only concern is morale saves. If anyone has any suggestions please comment.
thanks
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VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| | 05/10/2007 8:37 AM |
| | I tried her with x3 Goliath Barbarians and the trickster, very good damage output with the reroll. Took out a Stone Giant Rune Carver/Couatl warband. | |
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Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
Flint, Mi
| | 05/10/2007 9:16 AM |
| I like that too. Did you have any trouble with morale? I like the quad hitter but invisibility can really help.
Something like this might work.
Cleric of Sune
3x Goliath
1x Longstrider
1x Trickster
1x Ragnara
1x Wolf
You have four hitters with magic weapon, reroll, good damage output and all invisible. | |
VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 05/10/2007 9:55 AM |
| I went:
Sune
3 Virtous Charger
Gnome
Aramil
2 Xephs
Was brutal, tordek died in round 2 even with close wounds cast on him. | |
Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
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TheChuck
Warrior
333 Posts
Mississippi, USA
| | 05/10/2007 10:22 AM |
| I used a band the other day that I really liked.Â
Storm Silverhand
Cleric of Sune
Dwarf Battlerager x2
Half-Ogre Barbarian x3
7 activations.
Storm made the barbarians fearless and had that nifty silver fire to lay down, as well as being a decent threat in melee herself. CoS gave out an important legions magic weapon.Â
Not sure how I would have done against a ranged heavy band, but my speed is decent so I prolly could have closed quickly enough.
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| | 05/10/2007 10:22 AM |
| Posted By Vendelphian on 05/10/2007 9:16 AM
I like that too. Did you have any trouble with morale?
Of course! But, with the amount of damage being exchanged there was only enough time to morale check 1 of the gogo's and he even rallied later on. That fight went really well for me. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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evildani
Sneak
111 Posts
| | 05/10/2007 11:14 AM |
| I like to use her with multiple xendriks and Wild Elf Warsinger. They Rock!
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 05/10/2007 12:14 PM |
| Posted By evildani on 05/10/2007 11:14 AM
I like to use her with multiple xendriks and Wild Elf Warsinger. They Rock!
So long as Sune and the WEW stay alive for a little bit, that band has a nice high expected damage output.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 05/10/2007 4:30 PM |
| I like a Frenzied Berserker version with Cleric of Sune:
Cleric of Sune 34
Frenzied Berserker 52 Frenzied Berserker 52 Dwarf Battle Rager 17
Dwarf Battle Rager 17
x2 Timber Wolves 10
Devis 6
Bat 6
Bat 6
200 pts, 10 activations
Other options I like include using the Gnome Trickster, Storm, more Dwarf Battle Ragers.Â
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Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 05/10/2007 6:26 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 05/10/2007 4:30 PM I like a Frenzied Berserker version with Cleric of Sune:
Cleric of Sune 34
Frenzied Berserker 52 Frenzied Berserker 52 Dwarf Battle Rager 17
Dwarf Battle Rager 17
x2 Timber Wolves 10
Devis 6
Bat 6
Bat 6
200 pts, 10 activations
Other options I like include using the Gnome Trickster, Storm, more Dwarf Battle Ragers.Â
There is something appealling bout sending 4 crazies into battle who have complete disregard for their own safety
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/10/2007 11:58 PM |
| | I played 2xFBs with sune and everytime I get crushed. There low AC causes them to take some easy damage. Maybe I will give it another shot. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/11/2007 3:46 AM |
| Sune can be an awful opponent to beat, but the downside of her CFX is that it works for your opponent just as well IIRC.
I love that you use longstrider ranger, I worship that piece. I think it is the best companion for the WWL out there.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
Flint, Mi
| | 05/11/2007 5:30 AM |
| | oh I know, what other piece can you get that has 80 hp, spd 12, 2 high attack bonus, and now some good commanders to put them with so that they are either fearless or have better dmg output. All for 34 pts. I wonder why they dont get used as much. | |
VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| | 05/11/2007 6:58 AM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/10/2007 11:58 PM
I played 2xFBs with sune and everytime I get crushed. There low AC causes them to take some easy damage. Maybe I will give it another shot. Me too. FBs are not my friends, I feel rushed due to the damage they take each round, and then once they get in to combat anyone focuses on them they drop. That's why I take the extra Battlerager for another beater.
I got to thinking though, maybe cast legion's magic weapon first, then invisibility. Run the Dwarves out to the enemy, then cone them with the air mephit at the end of the round... they'll still be invisible (you'll probably get your first round VPs) but most importantly - you won't be the only one taking damage from the cone.
I was always doing it the other way around, conning then invisibility then running out. I think this might make a big difference. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 05/15/2007 2:24 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 05/10/2007 4:30 PM I like a Frenzied Berserker version with Cleric of Sune:
Cleric of Sune 34
Frenzied Berserker 52 Frenzied Berserker 52 Dwarf Battle Rager 17
Dwarf Battle Rager 17
x2 Timber Wolves 10
Devis 6
Bat 6
Bat 6
200 pts, 10 activations
Other options I like include using the Gnome Trickster, Storm, more Dwarf Battle Ragers.Â
CoS,FB,GB,DBR x 2, GT, GCR, TW, Bat.
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They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 05/15/2007 2:50 PM |
| We're running a league in which we each grab a commander and go with it, and having much hmming and hawing I chose the Cleric of Sune. My warband for the first league day was:
Cleric of Sune
Shadowdancer x3
Xendrick Champion x2 (one of the best things to use with the Cleric of Sune imo)
Gnome Trickster
Wild Elf Warsinger
I was concerned about morale saves, but between being in visible and having defensive roll, it wasn't that big a deal. The cleric of Sune didn't really do anything other than run around granting her CFX to my gals (and trying to avoid granting it to my opponents). Although I was fortunate, my first opponent did have humanoids, but CG so low acs. Second opponent was undead, third was mina + dragons, and 4th was casters, so only my 1st opponent could really benefit from my CFX. | |
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 05/19/2007 8:16 AM |
| i don't think that i'd ever use sune without devis...it is a huge counter to her Command ability.
I had pretty good success with 2 FB's, Gnome Tickster & Sune + ...I'm just not that good so it
is hard to judge sometimes 
mark | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
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absalom_daak
Skirmisher
3 Posts
| | 05/19/2007 10:51 AM |
| Are you sure 'countersong' works?
I too thought of including Devis as a quick 6 point solution to the enemy benefiting from my Cleric of Sune but then I checked the glossary...
Countersong: Enemy creatures within 6 squares of this creature cannot benefit from their commanders' Commander Effects. The commander effects of enemy commanders within 6 squares of this creature do not function.
Thus, by my reading, countersong doesn't prevent enemies benefiting from commander effects that are generated from your warband.
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 05/19/2007 1:15 PM |
| I think the best use ive come up for for her is the following:
CoS
VC x 3
Gnome trickster
Aramil
xeph x 2
Killed a tordek round 2..
Or:
CoS
FB
VC
2x dwarf battleragers
aramil
filler. | |
Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 05/19/2007 6:54 PM |
| I keep trying to find a really good build with the CoS and I keep coming back to the same thought process:
CoS is a commander that is just a little too squishy for my tastes considering the highly mobile pieces that have been seeing a lot of play lately. Also, she's the type of commander that needs to be relatively close to the action but doesn't need to attack or cast spells after her legion's magic weapon (you can use a bat to deliver her heal spell). Finally, she needs to be mobile since accurate placement is absolutely needed to make the best use of her CFX. So, what's the best way she's able to do this? Make her invisible.
More than any other CG band I can think of, I think CoS bands benefit the most from invisibility. So, now that we have a gnome trickster in the band, what else makes the most sense? Well, he has one SS which would probably be the first spell he casts to break his invisibility, so ideally it would be cast on an ally that has a high attack bonus with decent damage. Even better would be if it was humanoid to benefit from the CFX. Therefore, Frenzied Berserker.
Now the band looks like:
Cleric of Sune
Frenzied Berserker
Gnome Trickster
Bat Familiar
with 81 points to spend and 5 activations to fill.
Now, to make the most of the CFX, you want to make as many melee attacks with humanoids as possible in a given round that are reasonably likely to hit. The best candidates IMO are: Xendrik Champ and Dwarf Battlerager but there is certainly something to be said for the Virtuous Charger and the Goliath Barbarian. So, we certainly have some options now. I've always been a fan of the Xendriks so my favourite build will use as many of them as possible. We can fit at most 3, so we now have 12 points left and 2 activations to fill.
CG has lots of wonderful fodder to use to fill out the band and for a while I was using the Wild Elf Warsinger and a Xeph for the last 12 points, but with my hitters being invisible until engagement, I found I didn't get as much milage out of the Warsinger as I'd hope. Instead, I got to thinking of what else could make the most out of what was already in the band. Devis is a great choice with all the Storm bands running around.  Assuming you can keep him alive, he works wonders for making otherwise fearless hitters run away after getting hit by the FB. With the last 6 points we'd like a tile grabber and the Wild Elf Raider fits the bill. Not only is he fast enough, but he'll be invisible and if you want to have him join the fight, he can flank and attack at +10 (15 magic) if CoS is nearby.
As far as map selection goes, you would really like something where your opponent can't drop any turn 1 fireballs or ranged attacks. Forest terrain isn't terrible for you, but it's better if can be sure that your first strikes all hit. Finally, it would be nice to have something open enough that you can swarm dangerous enemies with all 5 hitters (believe me, the gnome is a hitter!). For the last little while, I've been using mushroom cavern mostly because I'm so familiar with the map (and many other people are not).
So the final build is:
Cleric of Sune
Frenzied Berserker
Gnome Trickster
Xendrik Champion x3
Bat Familiar
Devis
Wild Elf Raider
Map: Mushroom Cavern
And there's my thoughts on CoS... | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 05/20/2007 6:22 AM |
| Indeed:
Stonecrusher asked "this was what i was talking about... My commander granting cmd effects to enemies, with an enemy in front of her and an ally countersong by her side... does the effect still apply to the enemy..."
Guy's reply: "Just to be clear: The commander effect still does apply to the enemy in that situation."
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=805467
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 05/20/2007 6:36 AM |
| I didn't think something like that even needed clarification. It's pretty clear from the wording of countersong that it wouldn't prevent enemies from getting Sune's CFX.
Regardless, Devis is still a very good include in a Sune band - especially if you can make him invisible. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 05/20/2007 6:43 AM |
| OK then, devis won't stop CFX to enemy units from Sune...but I would still use him.
Damn, can't believe i missed that one. | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
IHawk's Have/Want List | IHawk's Trade List | Completed Trades - 214 | Pending Trades - 0
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| | 05/20/2007 8:53 AM |
| | Use improved countersong to prevent CoS's cfx from getting to your enemy. Your choices: Warchanter or Voice of Battle. Take the Warchanter when it's invisible you'll get +4 to all your saves, but you lose a hitter. That really hurts. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 05/20/2007 1:46 PM |
| | Cleric of sune is great but has a big problem:storm silverhand.Think about that:when will be a better choice sune than silverhand?Rarely.But if combined with dual berserkers you can create one of the most damaging (and dangerous) warbands you can see.Combine her too with: Goliath barbarian,half ogre barbarian,shadow dancers (this girls fit well everywhere!) and cormyrean war wizard for interesting warbands. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 05/20/2007 3:07 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 05/20/2007 8:53 AM
Use improved countersong to prevent CoS's cfx from getting to your enemy. Your choices: Warchanter or Voice of Battle. Take the Warchanter when it's invisible you'll get +4 to all your saves, but you lose a hitter. That really hurts.
Unfortunately, this doesn't work either. Improved Countersong just says that enemies cannot be put under command by other creatures. They are still affected by "offensive" commander effects whether or not they are under command. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 05/20/2007 3:19 PM |
| Posted By iluvxtina on 05/20/2007 1:46 PM
Cleric of sune is great but has a big problem:storm silverhand.Think about that:when will be a better choice sune than silverhand?Rarely.But if combined with dual berserkers you can create one of the most damaging (and dangerous) warbands you can see.Combine her too with: Goliath barbarian,half ogre barbarian,shadow dancers (this girls fit well everywhere!) and cormyrean war wizard for interesting warbands.
The problem with comparing Storm and CoS is that they have very different costs and fit in entirely different warbands. Sune wants to be defended and simply needs to be in the right space to be effective, which makes her a great candidate for invisible bands. Storm, on the other hand has things to do every round - silverfire, spells, attacks. Invisibility would be largely wasted on her. The point difference between them (24 points) means you can fit another beater in a Sune band.
In the band I list above, with the effects of Sune and flanking, you can get your creatures attacking at:
FB: +19/+14 (35 magic)
Xendrik: +18 (20 magic) or +18/+13 (10 magic)
Trickster: +13/+13 (20 magic)
On top of that, you often get to make the first set of attacks since everyone will be invisible (and get another +2 on that attack). With 5 beaters all attacking at those kind of levels, you can dish out some serious damage and eliminate major threats before they have a chance to do anything in return. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| |
Tellian
Sneak
125 Posts
Germany
| | 06/06/2007 6:00 AM |
| What do you think about the following two warbands?
1x Frenzied Berserker
2x Virtuos Charger
1x Cleric of Sune
2x Graycloak Ranger
2x Minions
4pts Fodder
200/9Act/CR3
or
3x Virtuos Charger
1x Cleric of Sune
3x Graycloak Ranger
3x Minions
199/10Act/CR3
With the Legions Magic Weapon and the Magical Fang spells you can improve the medium BAB from the Chargers. If you flank with the Chargers or even get CFX from CoS working, you will be able, to hit nearly anything. Two or three Craycloaks can remove opposing fodder easily. Thanks to Legions MW they will also be able, to hit your opponents fatties even with DR. The Wolf Mininions can grab each VA you want and maybe one or another Stun attack strikes through. With 9 or 10 activations and easy fodder removing you also decide where and when the melee starts. Could these warbands compete in the current meta?
regards
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The journey is the reward | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6879 Posts
| | 06/06/2007 7:06 AM |
| | Too many large bases on the x3 Virtuous Chargers. The one with FB is pretty good, she could follow up behind the fast VCs and not get pegged to death before arriving. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7670 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 06/06/2007 7:59 AM |
| I'm always worried that she is going to give a big boost to my opponents.
With so many shadowdancer and VC bands out there, it's a reasonable fear...
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Tellian
Sneak
125 Posts
Germany
| | 06/06/2007 8:38 AM |
| Sure, the CoS is a two bladed sword, but her CFX is more important to minis with more then one melee attack. Next, the Shadowdancers will hit you most of the time anyway, with +13, charge and flanking, the +2 bonus from the CoS doesn't really matter. You boost only the damage by 5, but if your opponent plays Shadowdancers you will have more attacks then the dancers. Another point if you play with the CoS and your opponent plays humanoids, he maybe let your Commander alive to profit by the CFX on his own. If he attacks the CoS he still must save against the Amazing Beauty abillity.
If you play against VCs then ... aaahhhh... nothing then. You play VCs by your own mayby the same number or more then your opponent, the dice will decide about the game.
The biggest problem I see is, if your opponent plays Storm. If he can hold her out of melee you could get problems with fearless enemies. But heh every warband has somewhere bad matchups.
regards | |
The journey is the reward | |
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IANKAVIK
Warrior
211 Posts
COLOMBIA
| | 06/06/2007 9:10 AM |
| I have been used 1 x cleric of sune, 1 x storm silverhand, 1 x wild elf warsinger, and 4 x Half ogre barbarian, with very good results. However, this warband have many weak points:
First, low AC.
Second, depends on commanders, because without them the half ogre can´t hit with high stats and have to make Moral Saves.
Third, All the damage caused by spells or special abilities is taken enterely (almost always) due to the low Level of the HOB.
However, this warband is better than Frenzied berzerker and Longstrider Ranger for these reasons:
First, Berzerkers warband has lesser activations (only 2 hitters) and AC than HOB Warband. Berzerker hasn´t Melee reach 2. Berzerker take damage easier than HOB (she is bleeding), and the commander effect of Storm doesn´t serves here.
Second, Longstriders make lesser damage than HOB, doesn´t received the commander effect from Storm, Hasn´t Melee reach 2 and only can use 3 hitters.
Maybe needs spellcasters or ranged attack but, is effective to catch figures and to protect own commanders due to the size of the minis.
Ianka
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