ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
    
Plane of Shadow
 | | 05/16/2007 1:55 PM |
| From what I have gathered, there are 176 LG minis, 205 CG minis, 226 LE minis, and 255 CE minis (multi faction minis are included in both factions).
When subdivided:
There are 32 LG commanders, 140 other LG minis, and 4 huge LG minis.
There are 34 CG commanders, 165 other CG minis, and 6 huge CG minis.
There are 36 LE commanders, 184 other LE minis, and 6 huge LE minis.
There are 31 CE commaders, 211 other CE, minis, and 13 huge CE minis.
I just finished a unit in math (Permutaions and Combinations) and decided to have some fun. All calculations I do are 8 fig warbands (200 points) with repeptitions (E is just so you know the next number is an exponent). As some you can tell right off the bat some combinations are over 200 points, but the general solution should still be right. Here's what I've figured out.
0 commaders
LG - 140C8 = 2.9 x 10E12 different LG warbands w/o a commander.
CG - 165C8 = 1.1 x 10E13 different CG warbands w/o a commander.
LE - 184C8 = 2.8 x 10E13 different LE warbands w/o a commander.
CE - 211C8 = 8.5 x 10E13 different CE warbands w/o a commader.
1 commander
LG - (140C7)(32C1) = 5.7 x 10E12 different LG warbands w/ 1 commander.
CG - (165C7)(34C1) = 1.9 x 10E13 different CG warbands w/ 1 commander.
LE - (184C7)(36C1) = 4.5 x10E13 different LE warbands w/ 1 commander.
CE - (211C7)(31C1) = 1.0 x10E14 different CE warbands with 1 commander.
2 commanders
LG - (140C6)(32C2) = 4.6 x10E12 different LG warbands w/ 2 commanders.
CG - (165C6)(34C2) = 1.4 x10E13 different CG warbands w/ 2 commanders.
LE - (184C6)(36C2) = 3.1 x10E13 different LE warbands w/ 2 commanders.
CE - (211C6)(31C2) = 5.3 x10E13 different CE warbands w/ 2 commanders.
3 commaders
LG - (140C5)(32C3) = 2.0 x10E12 different LG warbands w/ 3 commanders.
CG - (165C5)(34C3) = 5.7 x10E12 different CG warbands w/ 3 commanders.
LE - (184C5)(36C3) = 1.1 x10E13 different LE warbands w/ 3 commanders.
CE - (211C5)(31C3) = 1.5 x10E13 different CE warbands w/ 3 commanders.
4 commaders
LG - (140C4)(32C4) = 5.5 x10E11 different LG warbands w/ 4 commanders.
CG - (165C4)(34C4) = 1.3 x10E12 different CG warbands w/ 4 commanders.
LE - (184C4)(36C4) = 2.7 x10E12 different LE warbands w/ 4 commanders.
CE - (211C4)(31C4) = 2.5 x10E12 different CE warbands w/ 4 commanders.
5 commaders
LG - (140C3)(32C5) = 9.0 x10E10 different LG warbands w/ 5 commanders.
CG - (165C3)(34C5) = 2.0 x10E11 different CG warbands w/ 5 commanders.
LE - (184C3)(36C5) = 3.8 x10E11 different warbands w/ 5 commanders.
CE - (211C3)(31C5) = 2.6 x10E11 different warbands w/ 5 commanders.
6 commaders
LG - (140C2)(32C6) = 8.8 x10E9 different LG warbands w/ 6 commanders.
CG - (165C2)(34C6) = 1.8 x10E10 different CG warbands w/ 6 commanders.
LE - (184C2)(36C6) = 3.2 x10E10 different LE warbands w/ 6 commanders.
CE - (211C2)(31C6) = 1.6 x10E10 different CE warbands w/ 6 commanders.
7 commanders
LG - (140C1)(32C7) = 4.7 x10E8 different LG warbands w/ 7 commanders.
CG - (165C1)(34C7) = 8.8 x10E8 different CG warbands w/ 7 commanders.
LE - (184C1)(36C7) = 1.5 x10E9 different LE warbands w/ 7 commanders.
CE - (211C1)(31C7) = 5.5 x10E8 different CE warbands w/ 7 commanders.
8 commaders
LG - (32C8 ) = 1.0 x10E7 different LG warbands w/ 8 commanders.
CG - (34C8 ) = 1.8 x10E7 different CG warbands w/ 8 commanders.
LE - (36C8 ) = 3.0 x10E7 different LE warbands w/ 8 commanders.
CE - (31C8 ) = 7.8 x10E6 different CE warbands w/ 8 commanders.
I now realize this should be in the skirmsih forum (sorry).
I wasn't sure if I was supposed to multiply the solutions by 8! or not (You don't have to order the minis right?).
One thing I realize is we have way too many minis.
Get out of it what you like. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 05/16/2007 2:09 PM |
| This better not be the old bit where you type in 58008 and look at it upside down on your digital calculator.....  | | | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/16/2007 3:23 PM |
| Fun with math....coming soon??
Is this supposed to be some sort of place holder? What's the point? | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/16/2007 3:46 PM |
| | I'm building tension while calculating. Slowly, but surely I'll finish. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/16/2007 3:47 PM |
| | ? | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/16/2007 3:49 PM |
| | I can feel an off topic post ... | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10131 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 05/16/2007 3:52 PM |
| The suspense is building,I can hardly contain myself... | | | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/16/2007 3:57 PM |
| Posted By WakeXX on 05/16/2007 3:52 PM The suspense is building,I can hardly contain myself...
Had to quote the smiley. Too true.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/16/2007 4:49 PM |
| There you go.
What did you expect Desert of Desolation spoilers?? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/16/2007 5:40 PM |
| Maths is more fun when you interpet it  | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10131 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 05/16/2007 6:03 PM |
| | I tried doing those math puzzles like Sudoku and whatnot and they just aggravated me... | | | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 05/16/2007 6:28 PM |
| Guys dont be too hard... Its better that some one put Math here than put bad post. Im agree that math without interpretation is lost in some way...
I really thnk that your permutation have some lacks, because in teh game exist an word called "metagaming", this word limit you amount of commanders and units per permutation... Why? I dont really like to use Grim Necromancer, I hate it!, Its not competative....
If you limit your commanders adn units you can taka more realistic results.... for example:
LE have ... "36 LE commanders, 184 other LE minis, and 6 huge LE minis"
but in real world LE its the more limited and less variable faction reducing the amount of unit (accord to LE toolkit) to:
LE have ... "4 LE commanders, 23 other units and 0 huges"
reducion the amount of possible warbands to 20% in comparison with your original value...
And How want to do an warband with 8 comamnders!!! thats crazy... I prefer to use permutation among 1 commander and possible "other" units per faction...
Its fun, but you need to be more clear.... and less off topic
Ryoga (Sorry Im scientist I love statistics)
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/16/2007 6:46 PM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 05/16/2007 6:28 PM
Guys dont be too hard... Its better that some one put Math here than put bad post.
It wasn't the math that people were complaining about. It was starting a thread called "Fun with Math..." and then having the first post say, "...coming soon" for quite a while before posting.
If you are going to start a thread, then be ready to post the comments you are starting the thread for. Don't start a silly place holder and then add the comments later.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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yack
Commander
3164 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 05/16/2007 6:48 PM |
| | I suck at math...numbers are my enemy! (I'm a DM ) | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/16/2007 7:06 PM |
| 1. Why 8 commanders?
Because I was at 3 and thought, why not?
2. Do some of you not understand the numbers?
2.9 x10E12 = 2 900 000 000 000 different possible warbands.
3. Good idea Ryoga, I'll go over the factions and do this again (with competative minis) if I have enough time to waste again.
Oh, and one last thing Ryoga, they were all combinations, not permutations. No order, just picking then out of a box. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9034 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/17/2007 2:03 AM |
| | ....and i thought this was going to be some kind of deep statistical analysis on which current warband/faction/creature is the strongest (based on certain meta assumptions of course) | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1529 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 05/17/2007 4:27 AM |
| neat idea doing that...
Being picky... the permutations are likely to allow multiple uniques in a warband?
Now... I have to try all CE.. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
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zenthrus
Commander
4834 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/17/2007 5:48 AM |
| Remember: 1+1=1
Calculating the number of potential warband configurations is interesting, but there are a very limited number of combinations that are actually tournament viable
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Temysry
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 05/18/2007 1:37 PM |
| Obviously many of the bands will not be competitive, but many of the bands you have counted will be more than 200 points. For that matter you'll probably have even more that are far below 200 points as well. | |
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www.gelatinousdudes.com
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md3
Sergeant
696 Posts
| | 05/18/2007 3:25 PM |
| Come on change the topic title to "useless permutations."
I agree with some of these guys, if you are going to work the numbers you should at least keep in mind a few things:
1) You can't duplicate uniques
2) 8 commanders is unreasonable
3) Keep the 8 figure 200 point limit in mind
4) What about warband building, summons, and those builds where 3 figures count as one?
5) I'd use a database to correlate the correct results, not just some random musings
6) what about duplicates, do you account for the possibility of duplicates
7) what about those pesky ANY aligned figures
 I like the idea of only using the stats based on the alignment toolkits
Maybe someone can create a random warband generator based on just the toolkits. See if the generator is good enough to generate some of the current and past Tier 1 warbands.
Then someone can run stats on the likely hood that a warband would beat another, now that is something I would like to know. | |
"You are not the sum of your miniatures."
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psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 05/20/2007 11:28 PM |
| 5800835007
heh | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/21/2007 8:34 AM |
| ^wow that must be a good calculator to get 10 digits 
Also I have a question about the Warband combonations...do the combonations in clude things like...8 kobold miner warbands or triple beholder lich? or stuff that is just so random but it IS a combonation. | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/21/2007 12:02 PM |
| Posted By md3 on 05/18/2007 3:25 PM
Come on change the topic title to "useless permutations."
I agree with some of these guys, if you are going to work the numbers you should at least keep in mind a few things:
1) You can't duplicate uniques
2) 8 commanders is unreasonable
3) Keep the 8 figure 200 point limit in mind
4) What about warband building, summons, and those builds where 3 figures count as one?
5) I'd use a database to correlate the correct results, not just some random musings
6) what about duplicates, do you account for the possibility of duplicates
7) what about those pesky ANY aligned figures
1) I know, this was made just to show the general number of warbands, not exact.
2) I already said, I was at 3 commanders and thought why not so I went to 8.
3) See 1.
4) See1.
5) I don't have things like Excel.
6) No, that would be both a permutation and a combination (I think).
7) All double or any alignment figs were included in all alignments they could be in. Ex. CG/CE minis were included in CG and CE (recorded once in each). | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/21/2007 12:06 PM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/21/2007 8:34 AM ^wow that must be a good calculator to get 10 digits Also I have a question about the Warband combonations...do the combonations in clude things like...8 kobold miner warbands or triple beholder lich? or stuff that is just so random but it IS a combonation.
10 digits? I got those numbers with exponents (Incase you weren't joking).
I explained duplicates in my last post (aka, no). | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Autoxdsm
Sergeant
814 Posts
Myrtle Beach, SC
| | 05/22/2007 12:53 AM |
| 10 digits? I got those numbers with exponents (Incase you weren't joking).
I was taking about the post above mine. the 5800835007... | |
Champion of the Brainstealer Dragon
Desert of Desolation Called Shot: Medium Brown Dragon
***Winner of WBC VIII and XII*** | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 05/22/2007 6:34 AM |
| Posted By Autoxdsm on 05/22/2007 12:53 AM 10 digits? I got those numbers with exponents (Incase you weren't joking).
I was taking about the post above mine. the 5800835007...
Oh, you didn't quote so I supposed it was pointed at me. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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