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Subject: [SPOILER] Wild Mage

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Sirohk
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06/12/2007 3:42 PM  
Another one posted over on Hordelings and ddmspoilers:

CG Wild Mage 29pts
Level: 7
Speed 6
AC 14
HP 30
Melee Attack +3 (5)
Type Humanoid – human
Special Abilities
Wild magic Aura (whenever this creature or any creature within 2 squares cast a damaging spell roll 1d20 and adjust the spells damage as indicated)
1-5 no damage
6-10 Normal damage
11-18 damage +5
19-20 double damage
Wild magic surge (whenever this creature’s wild magic aura increases the damage dealt by a spell this creature gets +5hp
SORCERER SPELLS
4th [] Force wave (cone 10 damage and push effect larger or small creature 3 squares; DC 18
3rd[][] hailstones(sight 15 cold damage to target and 1 other enemy within 6 squares and line of site to target; dc15
2nd [] [] fire burst (each adjacent creature 15 fire damage, can cast while adjacent to enemy; dc14) Ice knife (sight; 10 cold damage, -2 AC)

Enjoy.Â



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Adelaide

06/12/2007 4:01 PM  
Meh. Glad they are cutting down all the special abilities
Forcewave and hail stones are interesting new additions to the skirmish grimore.

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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

06/12/2007 4:48 PM  
hey
is WoTC kidding?

I cant believe that I see...

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06/12/2007 5:35 PM  
Ice knife looks kinda cool.

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Myrtle Beach, SC

06/12/2007 6:21 PM  
Wild magic Aura (whenever this creature or any creature within 2 squares cast a damaging spell roll 1d20 and adjust the spells damage as indicated)
1-5 no damage
6-10 Normal damage
11-18 damage +5
19-20 double damage


Holy crap thats a risk with a HUGE pay out. Definitely will be included in a few fun warbands.

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Lima, Perú

06/12/2007 6:27 PM  
And no love for LE?????

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Flint, Mi

06/12/2007 7:04 PM  
Posted By WakeXX on 06/12/2007 5:35 PM
Ice knife looks kinda cool.


I too am liking Ice Knife. Tied with Wild Magic Aura It could be a pretty good spell. Especially against Forgepriest.

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Lima, Perú

06/12/2007 7:14 PM  
Ice knife with double damage means: 20 ice damage + -4AC in a 19-20 roll?

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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

06/12/2007 7:25 PM  
Posted By MAURIZIO on 06/12/2007 7:14 PM
Ice knife with double damage means: 20 ice damage + -4AC in a 19-20 roll?

damages mauricio.... not AC...

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06/12/2007 7:43 PM  
Neato!!! Though I'm not sure about the no damage chance...

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Flint, Mi

06/12/2007 7:49 PM  
I can see the chance coming into play when a creature has say 15 or 20 Hp and he needs to be dead now. In this case the WMA will be really useful.

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Rock Hill, SC

06/12/2007 8:07 PM  
I kinda like the Wild Mage. It has some interesting spells. I could see it used with Cormyrean War Wizards for some wicked damage. It is a bit unreliable and squishy, but it sure does look like fun!

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Portland OR

06/12/2007 9:22 PM  
really brings dice rolling back into the game... this is a good thing... though probably non competetive... too bad they didn't reduce the dmg to 5 dmg on 1-5... woulda made everyone look at this piece a lot harder.

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Myrtle Beach, SC

06/12/2007 10:31 PM  
too bad they didn't reduce the dmg to 5 dmg on 1-5... woulda made everyone look at this piece a lot harder.


I agree this would have made it more competitive. I might include her with Mordenkainen just for fun.

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06/12/2007 11:05 PM  
I don't know man, it's only a 25% chance that you do no damage, the rest are just gravy. Roll one of each and you're still up 5 dmg, but roll one Double damage on a WarWizard's Lighning bolts or Rays, and you will totally ruin someone's day. Granted the odds of rolling the double are only 10%, but think of the sickness

Apply this effect to the Archmage and imagine what a 20 or 30 damage Mordy's sword would do. Gross. Not to mention empowered Magic Missiles and Acid Arrows.

How about Doubling the Warmage's shocking grasp... sweet. Even Mialee's MM becomes a threat to fodder like wolves.

Remember, if you need the damage to be stable, keep your casters away from her. Honestly, the biggest threat is giving your opponent the same advantage. But in the end look at her spells, they have effects that aren't all dependant on damage: pushback and -2 AC, at least they still do something.

Maybe it's just the gambler in me, but this looks promising (of course not on Vassal since the dicebot blows so damn much!)

Mano Vega

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Adelaide

06/12/2007 11:22 PM  
1/2 damage instead of no damage would of (will of?) seen a lot more play.
You would to be gambler to risk that 25% chance of Mordy's sword doing 0 damage

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06/13/2007 2:57 AM  
Posted By MAURIZIO on 06/12/2007 6:27 PM
And no love for LE?????


Hey, your Ultroloth has spell resistance against all this stuff.

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The Fortress of Solitude

06/13/2007 3:03 AM  
Posted By ManoVega on 06/12/2007 11:05 PM
I don't know man, it's only a 25% chance that you do no damage, the rest are just gravy. Roll one of each and you're still up 5 dmg, but roll one Double damage on a WarWizard's Lighning bolts or Rays, and you will totally ruin someone's day. Granted the odds of rolling the double are only 10%, but think of the sickness

Apply this effect to the Archmage and imagine what a 20 or 30 damage Mordy's sword would do. Gross. Not to mention empowered Magic Missiles and Acid Arrows.

How about Doubling the Warmage's shocking grasp... sweet. Even Mialee's MM becomes a threat to fodder like wolves.

Remember, if you need the damage to be stable, keep your casters away from her. Honestly, the biggest threat is giving your opponent the same advantage. But in the end look at her spells, they have effects that aren't all dependant on damage: pushback and -2 AC, at least they still do something.

Maybe it's just the gambler in me, but this looks promising (of course not on Vassal since the dicebot blows so damn much!)


I'm in the same camp as you, ManoVega.  Bring on the randomness.  I like high risk, high reward.  Probably why I mostly play the chaotic factions.  In the days before the Orc Wardrummer, I used to plead with my Orc Champions to not run off the board, 'cause I knew that if they stayed, I would probably win the game.

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06/13/2007 3:26 AM  
The only thing I'd be worried about is that there really isn't that much of a "high" reward here.  Doing some quick calculations, it's easy to see that the wild magic aura will actually *decrease* the average damage output of a spell if it would normally do more than 10 damage.  So - I think the best use will be by using a larger number of weaker spells.  The only other time it may be useful is for spells that normally do an odd amout of damage and have a save - but again, it only really helps if after the save you would have taken 5 or 10 damage.

Therefore, the best candidates are:
5 or 10 damage (save or not)
15 or 25 damage (with a save)

Based on that, magic missles are a good idea, as is the Ice Knife (which can be copied by the Wizard of Turmish!).  The Renegade warlock might also see some use along with the all but forgotten Half-Elf Sorcerer and/or Halfling Wizard.

Certainly an interesting piece, but I don't think you'll get the best milage out of her if just swap out a CWW for her in an existing build.

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The Fortress of Solitude

06/13/2007 3:30 AM  
Agreed. CWW is still too good as long as it has a Phalanx Spellcasting partner.

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06/13/2007 4:58 AM  
The Wild Mage is too high variance for the competitive community. I doubt we'll see him making much of an impact in the constructed meta.

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COLOMBIA

06/13/2007 5:36 AM  
This mini is potentially dangerous. Sometimes i don´t trust in the roll dice for some strategies.

Is a double edge rule... i don´t like that.



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Randolph, NJ

06/13/2007 6:35 AM  

The best scenario is when he is with a caster that has a lot or unlimited uses of spells. As well as long range, so if you fail to put n the hurt, you are not immediately in harms way.

The Archmage with his 15point EMM does not have to fret if one of them gets reduced to zero. He has lots and lots of them that can get increased.

I would sacrifice a fatted calf to the d20 gods prior to casting a Mord Sword next to the Wild mage - talk about putting the game up to the roll of a die!  

Halfling Wizard is an interesting choice.


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06/13/2007 7:13 AM  
She will be fun fun fun... I am not so sure about competitiveness, but what the hell any spell with damage x2 will be devastating.

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06/13/2007 7:18 AM  
Posted By tundrin on 06/13/2007 6:35 AM

The best scenario is when he is with a caster that has a lot or unlimited uses of spells. As well as long range, so if you fail to put n the hurt, you are not immediately in harms way.

The Archmage with his 15point EMM does not have to fret if one of them gets reduced to zero. He has lots and lots of them that can get increased.

I would sacrifice a fatted calf to the d20 gods prior to casting a Mord Sword next to the Wild mage - talk about putting the game up to the roll of a die!  

Halfling Wizard is an interesting choice.



I agree that long-range spells are another must.  By having a lot of casters, you could actually get the wildmages hp up quite a bit before the enemy closes with you.  The archmage is an interesting idea, but since all his spells do 15+ damage, you'd actually be *decreasing* his average damage output which is probably a bad idea.  I don't think I'd ever try to cast mordy's sword next to the wild mage - if I'm just going to run around and wait for something to die, I don't mind if it's going to take an extra round or two.

The more I think about the Wizard of Turmish, the more I like the idea.  How about a fun band consisting of:

Elminster
Wizard of Turmish
Wild Mage
Raistlin
Mialee
Xeph Warrior x2

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06/13/2007 9:12 AM  
This wildmage has a high cost so be carefully adding her to your warband.It can causes huge damage but with lady luck on your side.It is very risky.But I like it a lot because it has potential and it will be very funny for sure.And ,as you said,the ice knife is very good against LG super armors

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Portland, OR

06/13/2007 10:31 AM  

I'm wondering how it would combine with the Dromite Wilder. The two surge abilities are not identically named...so in theory, a Dromite Wilder's electricity surge could do 20 x2 x2 = 80 damage! Of course the Wild Mage would be exposed to that too, but I suppose you could negate this if you were running Storm + Dragonmark Heir.

Definitely too chancy for a serious warband, but it might be fun to try out anyway!

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06/13/2007 2:50 PM  
Spellcasting band may just become rogue...

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06/14/2007 8:10 AM  
This I like- its like a beholder with a CG twist!

Other fun- Spiritual Weapon has a pretty good chance of having its damage in essense doubled.

Combine with two halfling wizards to unleash the Magic Missile Apocalypse!

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Milton, Ontario Canada

06/14/2007 9:28 AM  
I think it could be very brutal OR suck huge chance at no damage thats crazy

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Adelaide

06/14/2007 4:55 PM  
Posted By Temysry on 06/13/2007 3:26 AM
The only thing I'd be worried about is that there really isn't that much of a "high" reward here.  Doing some quick calculations, it's easy to see that the wild magic aura will actually *decrease* the average damage output of a spell if it would normally do more than 10 damage.  So - I think the best use will be by using a larger number of weaker spells.  The only other time it may be useful is for spells that normally do an odd amout of damage and have a save - but again, it only really helps if after the save you would have taken 5 or 10 damage.



Would you mind showing your calcualations please? i'm not seeing how average damage would go down. I can see many spells not gaining a boost on successful save unles it is double damage bit the wild magic surge adds +5 damage on a 11-18, it doesn't reduce the damage to 5.

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Broken Hill

06/14/2007 6:02 PM  
Posted By Damien the Bloodfeaster on 06/13/2007 10:31 AM

I'm wondering how it would combine with the Dromite Wilder. The two surge abilities are not identically named...so in theory, a Dromite Wilder's electricity surge could do 20 x2 x2 = 80 damage! Of course the Wild Mage would be exposed to that too, but I suppose you could negate this if you were running Storm + Dragonmark Heir.

Definitely too chancy for a serious warband, but it might be fun to try out anyway!



This was the first thing I thought ! lol that would be so awesome the 1 in 8 time it happens that you roll well


The other piece it may be worth while with is Renegade warlock

also does this also work with heals?




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06/14/2007 6:13 PM  
its just that heals do damage undead so maybe?
im not sure if this makes him better or worse but it might be somethuing to consider


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06/14/2007 8:56 PM  
Posted By Bert the Troll on 06/14/2007 4:55 PM
Posted By Temysry on 06/13/2007 3:26 AM
The only thing I'd be worried about is that there really isn't that much of a "high" reward here.  Doing some quick calculations, it's easy to see that the wild magic aura will actually *decrease* the average damage output of a spell if it would normally do more than 10 damage.  So - I think the best use will be by using a larger number of weaker spells.  The only other time it may be useful is for spells that normally do an odd amout of damage and have a save - but again, it only really helps if after the save you would have taken 5 or 10 damage.



Would you mind showing your calcualations please? i'm not seeing how average damage would go down. I can see many spells not gaining a boost on successful save unles it is double damage bit the wild magic surge adds +5 damage on a 11-18, it doesn't reduce the damage to 5.


Sure...  for simplicity, I'll just calculate 20*(average damage) in two different cases.

Say you have a spell that does exactly 15 damage with no save.  Without the aura, you get 300.
With the aura, you can calculate 20*average damage by adding together all the possible outcomes with the aura.  On 1-5 you do 0 damage, on 6-10 you do 15 damage, on 11-18 you do 20 damage and 19-20 you do 30.  That gives 5*(0)+5*(15)+8*(20)+2*(30) = 295 which is slightly lower than if the aura wasn't there.

You'll see that if you take any other spell that does more damage, this difference between them increases.

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Adelaide

06/14/2007 11:00 PM  
Thanks, I see it now

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Myrtle Beach, SC

06/15/2007 2:04 AM  
Thats why you gamble and hope you will beat the average. I think she will be like the ELf warmage. Has some good abilities but only played for fun and will never see a qualifier or larger tournament.

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06/17/2007 9:15 AM  
Another way to calculate 15, 25, and 35 Damage spells with DC's do less damage with her is that at 15, they make the save and only does 5 damage, double 5, and its now 10. 5 Less then before. That is if you double it. Most likely is you will get +5 damage added. So thats now 15/2 (for save) and you get 5 damage dealt, now add 5 to that and you get 10, again. So now your odds of dealing less damage is 100%. 25% is no damage, and 75% for damage add/none added yet still make a save.

Now the thing that everyone seems to forget is that if you take a spell of 15 damage, don't use the aura, and they make the DC save, the damage is 5. And thats even lower then if you use the aura. See the Aura doesn't actually decrease the damage dealt at all! (except for that 25%) what the aura does matheticaly is Add damage for spells who's DC's saves made. And it really adds to Spells who DCs crush the target.

The weight is what is perferable, a spell who 100% does damage the normal way, SAVE/No Save. Or is it better to risk a 25% chance to have that spell Hurt the traget hard or atleast recorp some of the damage that spell was suppose to deal.

None of this math applies to Spells that deal 10, 20, 30, etc... Only ones that end in a 5. Spells that deal of "0's" Actually will get a boost in damage overall on Saves made and Saves failed.

The other angle on this Creature that is interesting is that enemy also gets the bonus. It is a true chaios piece like Sune. I see the only way to play this creature is to keep it far back and Dump every spell into Ice Knife. CG's average attack could really use the -2AC. While Aura Effects damage, Even if you role a 1-5 dealing no damage, the -2AC still goes through. Plus since it is a spell dealing 10 and has no DC, it gets an add in damage 75% of the time. I think overall, Its a good good creature that is worth its "risk" It will just take proper warband and stargety to use its ablity to the most.


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London

06/29/2007 7:18 AM  
Posted By Bert the Troll on 06/12/2007 11:22 PM
1/2 damage instead of no damage would of (will of?) seen a lot more play.
You would to be gambler to risk that 25% chance of Mordy's sword doing 0 damage


Posted By Vrecknidj on 06/13/2007 4:58 AM
The Wild Mage is too high variance for the competitive community. I doubt we'll see him making much of an impact in the constructed meta.

Dave


Now that WotC have said you roll for each Wild Mage & pick the best result. That removes most of the variance. Mordy's sword & wild magic becomes a distinct possibility.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

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06/29/2007 8:48 AM  
It sure does.  I did some more calculations based on the effects of being within two Auras at the same time.  The next average effect is that for a spell that does x damage, it'll be increased to ((1.1275)x+2.  I've taken the liberty of calculating some of the values and for spells in the 10-30 damage range, this is almost exactly a 5 point boost in damage.

So - looks like CG just got the equivalent of the red wizard if you use two wild mages at the same time.  They're even about the same cost (for the pair) and pretty much as squishy...Â

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06/29/2007 11:37 AM  
Pretty much as squishy except, they cast 2 spells/round versus the Red Wizard (cause there are two of them), they can't both be killed by the same melee attack (exceptions for Cleave, Whirlwind, Tailsweep and other things) or ranged assault.  They gain hitpoints each time an ally uses their aura.  And, most importantly, they have better partners to allign themselves with (IMHO).  CG beats the pants off of LE for spellcasters below 35 points.

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