Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
    
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
 | | 09/14/2007 10:25 AM |
| Hi every one,
I see that WoTC makes new propouse to create new Epic units to build little more competative units. I question myself if some people has good results with EPIC Dread Wraith, warbands, test and what people think about EPIC Mind Flayer Lich.
I don't have the oportunity to test this units very well but I still propouse some warbands here:
Warband 1
EPIC Dread Wraith 186pts
Beholder 83pts
BlueSpawn Slayer 145pts
Dragon Mark 34pts
* 52pts On commander and fodders.... Im not sure
Urthok? + Duergar?
Rakshaza? + Snig?
Warband 2
EPIC Mind Flayer Lich 191pts (DC 25 paralisis!!!)
Cadaver Colector 103pts
Aspect of Nerull 81pts
2x Dragon Mark 68pts
Dark Naga 41pts
* 16pts fodders
I awaits your comments
Ryoga
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/14/2007 3:51 PM |
| Beholder is a better healer than Nerull. Plus you can boost him with Naga.
Commander could be either ultroloth or Shuluth, synergizes with Naga. | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/14/2007 3:51 PM |
| Beholder is a better healer than Nerull. Plus you can boost him with Naga.
Commander could be either Ultroloth or Shuluth, synergizes with Naga, or maybe Urthok fo CR plus Naga. | |
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tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/14/2007 8:38 PM |
| Well I do not have a beholder but I was thinking something a little bit more like this
Epic Mind Flayer Lich 191
Beholder Lich 64
Bone Naga 62
Dark Naga 42
Count Strahd 93
Bat Familliar 6
Kobold Miner 3
Zombie White Dragon 37
Map: King's Road
You can go two ways with this band, play keep away and use the Bone Naga, Beholder and MFL to pummel at range or you can go the in your face way by using the quick dimension door on the MFL to get right up there and either start paralyzing or stunning(use Strahd's one spell to boost the damage on the MFL if you go this route.) | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 09/14/2007 9:35 PM |
| Posted By tahjn on 09/14/2007 8:38 PM
Well I do not have a beholder but I was thinking something a little bit more like this
Epic Mind Flayer Lich 191
Beholder Lich 64
Bone Naga 62
Dark Naga 42
Count Strahd 93
Bat Familliar 6
Kobold Miner 3
Zombie White Dragon 37
Map: King's Road
Tahjn... i dont know if you know that you beholder can interrupt you spells.....
My only reason to use Aspect opf Nerull than Beholder with Epic Mind Flayer lich is that ANTI-MAGIC RAY prevents Mind Lich to cast his spells... I dont want to see my quick dimension door fails because Beholder.....
Mind Lich + Beholder = Bad Idea....
Better use AoN
| |
Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
|
Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/15/2007 3:22 AM |
| Posted By tahjn on 09/14/2007 8:38 PM
Well I do not have a beholder but I was thinking something a little bit more like this
Epic Mind Flayer Lich 191
Beholder Lich 64
Bone Naga 62
Dark Naga 42
Count Strahd 93
Bat Familliar 6
Kobold Miner 3
Zombie White Dragon 37
Map: King's Road
You can go two ways with this band, play keep away and use the Bone Naga, Beholder and MFL to pummel at range or you can go the in your face way by using the quick dimension door on the MFL to get right up there and either start paralyzing or stunning(use Strahd's one spell to boost the damage on the MFL if you go this route.) I also got the idea of using Strahd just a few minutes ago:)
I know the antimagic ray sucks, but it can be negated by good positioning. And when you start attacking, you will not use spells. Plus, I don't have Nerull:)
A weird idea just struck me: :)
Horned Devil 247
Mind Flayer Lich 191
Bone Naga 62/ Ultroloth 62
500/3
Now this rulez, don't you think? :) :D
Two swift Dim Doors plus ranged support or powerful commander...this looks like a lot of fun, I must try this.:)
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 09/15/2007 4:46 AM |
| Posted By Ryoga on 09/14/2007 10:25 AM
Hi every one,
I see that WoTC makes new propouse to create new Epic units to build little more competative units. I question myself if some people has good results with EPIC Dread Wraith, warbands, test and what people think about EPIC Mind Flayer Lich.
I don't have the oportunity to test this units very well but I still propouse some warbands here:
Warband 1
EPIC Dread Wraith 186pts
Beholder 83pts
BlueSpawn Slayer 145pts
Dragon Mark 34pts
* 52pts On commander and fodders.... Im not sure
Urthok? + Duergar?
Rakshaza? + Snig?
I awaits your comments
Ryoga
Ryoga - I like both of your warband ideas, but I like the Epic Dread Wraith a touch better (mainly as I don't have the Epic Mind Flayer card yet). And I tend to agree that the Beholder is a good choice to pair up with the Wraith. Using the Bluespawn Godslayer is a nice addition for a hitter versus Tiamat and Bahamut (or other beaters).Â
In your warabnd almost everything is Fearless. I might drop the Dragonmark and forget about a commander and go with something like:
Epic Dread Wraith 186
Beholder 83
Bluespawn 145
Beholder Lich 64
x3 Kobold Zombies 12
Dire Rat 4
x2 Warrior Skeletons 6
500 pts, 11 activations
Lots of blockers for the Beholders and the Godslayer as a hitter. Plus the Beholders can do thier eye rays on the blockers.Â
Another option I just though of would be to add Lady Vol - Undead Fearless Commander who has Aura of Fear.Â
Cheers.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
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tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/15/2007 6:17 AM |
| Actually the Beholder Lich does not have the Antimagic Eye
He has Unhallowed Sight which gives all undead in his line of sight attack +1 and also prevents anyone in his line of sight from using turn undead(I'm looking at you Van Richten.) | |
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Ryoga
Underboss
1124 Posts
Coquimbo - Chile / Italia
| | 09/15/2007 11:31 AM |
| Posted By tahjn on 09/15/2007 6:17 AM
Actually the Beholder Lich does not have the Antimagic Eye
He has Unhallowed Sight which gives all undead in his line of sight attack +1 and also prevents anyone in his line of sight from using turn undead(I'm looking at you Van Richten.)
Sorry I miss copletly the word "Lich"... I think only about Beholder.... :D sorry
I dont really like the B.Lich too much..... no enough autodamages, too much random powers, and low healing undead power....
I really dont consider this Tier 2 unit in epic games, even in 200pts games.
SIROHK:
Again thanks for your opinions, but this time I disagree, because units like EPIC Dread Wraith and Beholder needs maps with good line of sight, and some times you need win inits because EPIC Dread Wraith is more fragile than It seems.
Commander is likely thing in Beholder + E. Dread Wraith warbands...
Thanks
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Dealing with new life... new country and life without DDM :(
Some day I will be back in board | |
|
tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/15/2007 11:58 AM |
| Actually I find the lich to be better than the regular beholder when paired with magic casting undead (MFL, Bone Naga) or other magic users (Dark Naga)
When going with units like the Dracolich or Epic Aspect of Nerull or the Epic Dread Wraith the regular beholder is better(but still more expensive.)Against Epic mage bands (Elminster + Archmages or even the LSC.) the regular Beholder is also better.
The key to winning Epic battles has always been versatility. In Epic you see so many different and off the wall warbands. Probably the most dominant single epic piece in the meta here(if you could call it a meta) would be the Epic Solar. He does too much damage and still has room for more support than any other epic figure. Whenever I even think about an epic band I always test it out first against an Epic Solar. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 09/16/2007 4:57 AM |
| I played in an Epic tournament yesterday and it was won by an Epic Mind Flayer Lich warband (not me). The winner played something like:
Epic Mind Flayer Lich
Beholder
Dread Wraith (maybe Epic)
Dark Naga
Filler
I will post a tournament report in the Tournaments section later today / tommorrow.Â
He is definately a solid piece.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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TheChuck
Warrior
333 Posts
Mississippi, USA
| | 09/17/2007 11:04 AM |
| I played in an Epic tourny yesterday and this is what I played.
Epic Mind Flayer Lich
Cadaver Collector
Count Strahd
Beholder
Snig + Sniglets
Greenspawn Sneak
Kobold Zombie
In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have playtested a new card in a tournament, but alas, at least I still had fun! I could/should have won the tournament, but I played far too aggressively with the Lich then I should have. The first round a destroyed a Storm Giant/Lyrander Skyfire combo. But then I lost to Epic Raistlin/Epic Thrall and lost to Epic Storm Silverhand/Epic Wulfgar.Â
Note to self: Epic Mind Flayer Lich does not work as an aggressive beater.
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/20/2007 3:39 PM |
| | Epic Mind Flayer Lich would be okay in a balanced meta-game, but it loses some of its punch because of all the Bahamuts and Tiamats (we normally play 1000 pts now) flying around. For that reason, I much prefer your epic Dread Wraith warband. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 09/21/2007 4:26 AM |
| | Exactly.The epic mindflayer lich is not a very bad piece becasuse her average stats and decent cost.But it becomes completely useless because two things: first-Only bahamut/tiamat/tordek and storm warbands are available in competitive tier 1 epic tournaments. Second-You are going to face a lot of bahamt/tiamat warbands wich are inmune to paralisys so,never use a mindflayer lich. | |
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tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/21/2007 5:41 AM |
| | Yes the dragon aspects are immune to paralysis but not to stun. In fact none of the top warbands you listed are immune stun. The Mind flayer lich is a finesse piece its not a beater. | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/21/2007 9:36 AM |
| Tordek gets shredded by MFL.
Agreed it's not a pure beater. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 09/21/2007 5:29 PM |
| This is indeed a fun piece to try to build around.
Mind Flayer Lich (epic)
Fire Giant Forgepriest x2
Dragonmark Heir of Deneith x2
Bat Familiar x2
Urthok the Vicious
Hobgoblin Marshal
Timber Wolf
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tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/22/2007 5:44 PM |
| I actually have been testing with the Mind Flayer Lich and the Dread Wraith in Epic.
basic band has been something like this
Epic Dread Wraith
Epic Mind Flayer Lich
Dark Naga
Beholder Lich
Kobold Miner x4
Bat Familliar
Map: Teleport Temple
If you can get a Bestow Curse from the Beholder Lich to land on Tordek (only a 20 percent chance with the Naga nearby,) Tordek has to get a 14 or 15( depending on if you took someone with Divine Protection or not) to save on the paralysis, after that its 65 damage for a full attack from the lich and 80 or 100 damage from the Dread Wraith on a full attack. Against the Solar its about the same story( though the 50% miss on the Wraith is nice.) I have not tested against Bahamut yet. Against him and Tiamat I think stunning will be the best idea. | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/23/2007 1:32 AM |
| Posted By tahjn on 09/22/2007 5:44 PM
I actually have been testing with the Mind Flayer Lich and the Dread Wraith in Epic.
basic band has been something like this
Epic Dread Wraith
Epic Mind Flayer Lich
Dark Naga
Beholder Lich
Kobold Miner x4
Bat Familliar
Map: Teleport Temple
If you can get a Bestow Curse from the Beholder Lich to land on Tordek (only a 20 percent chance with the Naga nearby,) Tordek has to get a 14 or 15( depending on if you took someone with Divine Protection or not) to save on the paralysis, after that its 65 damage for a full attack from the lich and 80 or 100 damage from the Dread Wraith on a full attack. Against the Solar its about the same story( though the 50% miss on the Wraith is nice.) I have not tested against Bahamut yet. Against him and Tiamat I think stunning will be the best idea. Tordek biggest weapon here is his high AC. The it only takes one successful Paralysis to and some heavy damage on him. He also doesn't have SR and MFL is immune electricity.
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2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
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Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
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tahjn
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 09/23/2007 10:09 AM |
| Well I usually have the Dread Wraith go hunt fodder to buff up its hit points. Still trying to find a band that can beat this one. Against Tiamat or Bahamut its really dependent on how lucky your opponent is with the incorporeal rolls.
I have been trying some different bands to see what kind of results I can get. An interesting one I came up with is
2x Epic Golden Protector
1x Epic Rikka
1x Harmonium Guard
2x Man at Arms
not exactly the most competetive band but having 3 epics in one band is just crazy. Thinking of trying an Epic Van Richten band to see how that holds up against this one. My biggest worry though is the mirror match.
Speaking of which, for the Chill Touch effect on the Beholder Lich, does it have to roll incorporeal to effect the Dread Wraith. I think it could go either way, on the one hand it deals 5 damage and as such would have to make the save but against the effect of a turn undead then it wouldn't require the save. | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 09/25/2007 2:07 AM |
| | If you target an Undead, you have to use Turn Undead iirc. So no roll required. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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