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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
    
United States
 | | 04/08/2008 7:39 PM |
| So, I've been thinking of ways to abuse the Large Gold Dragon's power to get VPs.
The Broken Demongate is a map where it's really, really easy to get critters onto Victory Areas. It's remarkably hard to prevent your opponent from doing so, however.
But, with a Delver Sergeant, if you can get all 10 figures onto a Victory Area, and pull off this trick for three rounds, you'll have 150 points (of course, so might your opponent). However, thereafter, if your Large Gold can kill 50 points worth of enemies before your opponent can manage to get 50 more points you're (wait for it...) Golden.
Fane of Lolth might offer something similar. If you get the correct side, you can, effectively, turtle, just like in the old Large Silver Dragon on tiles days.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3168 Posts
| | 04/08/2008 7:54 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/08/2008 7:39 PM
So, I've been thinking of ways to abuse the Large Gold Dragon's power to get VPs.
The Broken Demongate is a map where it's really, really easy to get critters onto Victory Areas. It's remarkably hard to prevent your opponent from doing so, however.
But, with a Delver Sergeant, if you can get all 10 figures onto a Victory Area, and pull off this trick for three rounds, you'll have 150 points (of course, so might your opponent). However, thereafter, if your Large Gold can kill 50 points worth of enemies before your opponent can manage to get 50 more points you're (wait for it...) Golden.
Fane of Lolth might offer something similar. If you get the correct side, you can, effectively, turtle, just like in the old Large Silver Dragon on tiles days.
Dave
Baby Bulette LIKE Turtles! Yum! And the Large Fire Elemental and Fire Archon love 'em too, for that matter!
JIM
aka kyrin
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 04/09/2008 7:33 AM |
| | I dislike the broken demongate.I prefer the fane of loth map like you said with the silver warband.Maybe I,m wrong but I have obtained my best results with the drow outpost map,putting the golden in the center and breath ,kill,breath...I defeated a dual rhino-rider in three turns | |
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Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
Flint, Mi
| | 04/09/2008 9:55 AM |
| | I've played against the LGD probably 4 or 5 times, all on Kings Forest. I have yet to beat it. With 32 AC in the forest he is incredibly hard to hit. Plus the farmers can get to a victory area pretty easy on this map as well. My closest chances at beating him were with triple dol dorns. They dished out a great amount of dmg but it just wasnt enough. I couldnt hit accurately. My next good chance was with triple Werewolf champs. They dealed enough dmg to kill him and then some but the LGD kept healing with cleric of pelor. Its a very powerful piece. | |
VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 04/09/2008 10:08 AM |
| | Heh, great find. LGD with his powerful breath and double atack should be able to gather those 30-40 points needed to win. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 04/09/2008 3:09 PM |
| Posted By Vendelphian on 04/09/2008 9:55 AM
I've played against the LGD probably 4 or 5 times, all on Kings Forest. I have yet to beat it.
With 32 AC in the forest he is incredibly hard to hit.
Plus the farmers can get to a victory area pretty easy on this map as well. My closest chances at beating him were with triple dol dorns. They dished out a great amount of dmg but it just wasnt enough. I couldnt hit accurately. My next good chance was with triple Werewolf champs. They dealed enough dmg to kill him and then some but the LGD kept healing with cleric of pelor. Its a very powerful piece.
How do you get AC 32 in the Forest? I believe the LGD is AC 30. I do not see anywhere in the rules where Forest grants a bonus to AC. Forest can grant Cover versus Ranged Attacks, and even block LOS, but no bonus to AC. Are you still thinking DDM 1.0?Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2558 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 04/09/2008 8:51 PM |
| you shouldnt have posted this
now people will use it
and i will lose.
thanks dave | | | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 04/10/2008 5:58 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 04/09/2008 3:09 PM Posted By Vendelphian on 04/09/2008 9:55 AM
I've played against the LGD probably 4 or 5 times, all on Kings Forest. I have yet to beat it.
With 32 AC in the forest he is incredibly hard to hit.
Plus the farmers can get to a victory area pretty easy on this map as well. My closest chances at beating him were with triple dol dorns. They dished out a great amount of dmg but it just wasnt enough. I couldnt hit accurately. My next good chance was with triple Werewolf champs. They dealed enough dmg to kill him and then some but the LGD kept healing with cleric of pelor. Its a very powerful piece. How do you get AC 32 in the Forest? I believe the LGD is AC 30. I do not see anywhere in the rules where Forest grants a bonus to AC. Forest can grant Cover versus Ranged Attacks, and even block LOS, but no bonus to AC. Are you still thinking DDM 1.0?Â
That'd be AC 34. He's halfway there.
---
And yes, if you encounter a band with less acts, you get +15 points for every one missing. | |
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2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
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Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 04/10/2008 6:34 AM |
| | Exactly: kings road map was viable with 1.0 rules,but not anymore since forest do not grant extra AC.I insist, drow outpost is a very good map with the golden one.I have to test the broken demongate map | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 04/10/2008 7:05 AM |
| So, I tried this last night. I was up against three Shadowbane Inquisitors and an Eternal Blade.
I was on the evil side of Broken Demongate, and managed to park nearly all my figures in the opponent's victory area. As the first three rounds played out, I scored the following points: 45 + 25 + 25 (I had a Delver Sergeant). My opponent scored 25 + 15 + 15 as he left some of his pieces behind to gather points.
Still, it came down to a single die roll. He had one Shadowbane Inquisitor left (with which to attack). I was ahead 193 to 64 and the Large Gold Dragon was at 10 hit points. He needed a 9 to hit me and rolled a 5. Had he hit, he would have been at 204 and would have won the game. The game lasted only 4 rounds, but maneuvering was sometimes key (as was the timing of attacks), and so we ate up the hour.
I learned a few things. 1) I needed another Merchant Guard (I had two and an Iron Defender--the Iron Defender is to grabbing regular assault points if I don't win map); 2) if possible, I need to get the LGD onto a victory area too, but, more importantly, I cannot put him in a spot where he's over-exposed (my opponent got all four hitters adjacent to me); 3) enemy Merchant Guards can cause problems; 4) it would be wonderful to be able to heal the LGD, but a Cleric of Pelor costs too much; 5) I used 3 Elf Archers, and they turned out to be very good for the band.
Worse, a couple Large Shadow Dragons could swoop in (if they timed it right) and wipe out all or nearly all my fodder. This would be hard to protect against. And, while I might be able to get 50 points from one use of the Champion power, it's not likely I'd be getting too much more. And, once they're all gone, I'm so sorely out-activated that I'll have trouble pulling out a win. That said, in this case the LGD will be hitting for 35 points and so basing anything with fewer than 75 hit points could do me some good. If the Delver Sergeant in this band can survive the breaths, then the Illuminator could just be the key to pulling it out. Still, I don't fancy the odds of LGD against three Large Shadows.
And, while AC 30 is really high, there are a LOT of figures that can get boosted to over +20, and even with my enemies only hitting me half the time, the LGD is really the only offense in the band, and if he dies, I lose.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
Flint, Mi
| | 04/10/2008 1:17 PM |
| | Thats good that i've been informed on this. We have been reading in the rules that cover grants a -2 attack and forest grants cover. So therefore +2 AC in forest. But I've been wrong before and im sure I'll be wrong again. Either way though LGD is very good. | |
VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/10/2008 1:25 PM |
| Hmm, now this has promise.
Good find, Dave. I wonder what other Maps would be good...
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 04/10/2008 4:04 PM |
| Posted By Vendelphian on 04/10/2008 1:17 PM
Thats good that i've been informed on this. We have been reading in the rules that cover grants a -2 attack and forest grants cover. So therefore +2 AC in forest. But I've been wrong before and im sure I'll be wrong again. Either way though LGD is very good. Please check the rules again. The -2 ATT for cover would be for ranged ATT only. Melee ATT would not incur this penalty.Â
Unless someone can convince me otherwise.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 04/10/2008 8:03 PM |
| One more thing, and this probably seals the deal against me running this band: a badly-timed critical would have dropped the LGD earlier, and I would have had no chance to win at that point. Even bodyguards are no good if you hadn't chosen to redirect the attack first. So, given that you're going to get critted once or twice (at least) in a long tournament, this could turn a win into a loss more easily than in a non-titan build.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 04/11/2008 3:15 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/10/2008 8:03 PM
One more thing, and this probably seals the deal against me running this band: a badly-timed critical would have dropped the LGD earlier, and I would have had no chance to win at that point. Even bodyguards are no good if you hadn't chosen to redirect the attack first. So, given that you're going to get critted once or twice (at least) in a long tournament, this could turn a win into a loss more easily than in a non-titan build.
Dave
If one can build a warband with the LGD and the Dwarf Battlemaster, he can use his Champion power to negate a critical.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 04/11/2008 3:55 PM |
| Hmm. The problem, of course, is that the LGD costs so much that purchasing a trick like that may become prohibitive. Nevertheless, I will look into it.
One thing that really stands out about the LGD band is that whether you're playing it or against it, you have to very cautiously decide whether to place a figure on or near a victory area--after all, you cannot afford to get too many points behind on the "free" 5 points. But, you also run several risks when doing so, like bunching up chumps against an area or close attack or failing to give your archers a target, etc. Each activation takes on new and interesting problems. One thing I noticed is that this favors players who can handle the stress of such little pieces turning out to be so important. If you're playing the LGD, you cannot afford to lose your little guys (not that anyone can, but it's more of an issue here), but, you also cannot afford to do something important with them (such as getting the 5 points). And, of course, your opponent is pushed into the same dilemma.
I have not yet entirely written off this option. (The 20-damage-on-a-miss, rechargeable breath weapon is really, really huge.)
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/11/2008 3:58 PM |
| I think it's a good option, but it you would have to test it very heavily, to know the band inside and out, so when those tough decisions come up, you can make them quickly.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 04/11/2008 5:44 PM |
| All bunched up like that you would also be vulnerable to ranged area attacks, the howling hags balefull whispers, the drow wand mages wand blast or icy rays and the Emerald orb wizards sudden spikes. The y are all easy for the dragon to kill but doing so would pull him out of the victory areas and probably set him up to be dogpiled by the enemy.
Having said all that I love Large Gold bands, try putting a halfling paladin in there, no charging and healing for the dragon.
Large Gold
halfling paladin
2 merchant guards
4 elf archers
farmer
only 9 activations but now you have some ranged to pick off thier fodder. | | | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/11/2008 7:14 PM |
| I wonder how it would test against Driders and Shadow dragons. Those would be my biggest concerns.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 04/12/2008 11:31 AM |
| LGD 140
Palach 21
2 MG 16
Archers 20
Farmer 3
200/9
Maijstral's version. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 04/12/2008 12:23 PM |
| | For me,the main problem with LGD is the rot scarab swarm,seriously man.If your titan gets stunned two times (and this occurs a lot),you will loose for sure.And of course,the other main problem is triple LShD warbands.How do you deal with it? | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 04/12/2008 12:55 PM |
| | It shouldn't be that bad, you can still breath on it abd kill it in one attack. The second swarm will then be attacked by dragon and dropped by some bodyguards or such. I will try it on the next league evening. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Vendelphian
Warrior
212 Posts
Flint, Mi
| | 04/14/2008 9:29 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 04/10/2008 4:04 PM Posted By Vendelphian on 04/10/2008 1:17 PM
Thats good that i've been informed on this. We have been reading in the rules that cover grants a -2 attack and forest grants cover. So therefore +2 AC in forest. But I've been wrong before and im sure I'll be wrong again. Either way though LGD is very good. Please check the rules again. The -2 ATT for cover would be for ranged ATT only. Melee ATT would not incur this penalty. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.Â
Yea we got that. We were just thinking in terms of say hitting around a corner. Not all squares are clear so you get a cover bonus. It seems like in forest, all squares would not be clear therefore -2 attk and in 1.0 forest granted cover and so we got the two all mixed up and yea we didnt really look at the forest rules were it says only cover against ranged. But looked it up and it seems pretty clear. | |
VENDELPHIAN CHAMPION OF ELDEVERE
As the once great Zanin Arthasad would say...
ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Lets charge the gates!!!! | |
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