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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
    
United States
 | | 06/27/2008 1:43 PM |
| 
This one will be played on three times by players at the championship. It has some choke points (which you don't necessarily see at first).
If you win initiative, which side will you take, and why?
Talk about the map.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/27/2008 2:29 PM |
| As we look at it, I would choose the right side. I think it gives superior positioning and movement options.
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 06/27/2008 4:32 PM |
| You wouldn't rather move up into the outpost and strike from there?
Another advantage of the right side is that the joint victory area is closer to you.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 06/27/2008 5:15 PM |
| I agree with liking the right side. Seems to have better cover and closer to shared VP area.Â
Still, the Outpost side is workable.Â
All 3 maps like having ranged support in them.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1792 Posts
Portland OR
| | 06/27/2008 8:38 PM |
| | Of the three this may be the most balanced. It's the one I've played the most and it's very balanced on both sides. If you have squishier pieces the outpost is better but that's the main benifit. Flight and burrow are huge and large bases can be a total pain if unprepared. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 06/28/2008 7:26 AM |
| The maps seems to promote cautiousness. If you move out too quickly, on either side, you're subjected to all kinds of unholy ranged terrors. All three maps are favorable to a well-played Wild Mage. This really alters the game because this means everyone has to deal with the possibility of an untimely Stun or a particularly devastating crit (30 Thunder or 40 Fire; both are pretty awful, especially against support pieces in the rear).
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 06/28/2008 7:36 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 06/28/2008 7:26 AM
The maps seems to promote cautiousness. If you move out too quickly, on either side, you're subjected to all kinds of unholy ranged terrors. All three maps are favorable to a well-played Wild Mage. This really alters the game because this means everyone has to deal with the possibility of an untimely Stun or a particularly devastating crit (30 Thunder or 40 Fire; both are pretty awful, especially against support pieces in the rear).
Dave
I agree. Ranged Area ATTs (ie Wild Mage, Eladrin Pyromancer, Tombound Arcanist, that big Efreetti guy) can really ruin the day. Which gets back to careful movement, no bunching up, advance slowly, Merchant Guards for protection when advancing.  But someone has to stick their head out the door first.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3187 Posts
Netherlands
| | 07/01/2008 12:41 AM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 06/28/2008 7:36 AM I agree. Ranged Area ATTs (ie Wild Mage, Eladrin Pyromancer, Tombound Arcanist, that big Efreetti guy) can really ruin the day. Which gets back to careful movement, no bunching up, advance slowly, Merchant Guards for protection when advancing.  But someone has to stick their head out the door first. 
yup, units like the emerald orb wizard or wild mage can do a lot of hurt on this map. the right sight provides more cover. there are some sneaky lines of sight to shoot into the "outpost", and you can still be blasted away unless you are totally in the bottom half of the building.
D. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 07/01/2008 4:21 AM |
| The Elf Arcane Archer is going to love this map (and probably the other two as well).
For GenCon, it appears as though people will have to have some way of dealing with this...
Elf Arcane Archer x4
3-point chump x4
I don't know what the Archer's actual damage is (can't tell from the spoilers, I haven't seen an actual card). But, if it's good enough, it's going to be hard to deal with this from behind walls.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 07/01/2008 5:06 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 07/01/2008 4:21 AM
The Elf Arcane Archer is going to love this map (and probably the other two as well).
For GenCon, it appears as though people will have to have some way of dealing with this...
Elf Arcane Archer x4
3-point chump x4
I don't know what the Archer's actual damage is (can't tell from the spoilers, I haven't seen an actual card). But, if it's good enough, it's going to be hard to deal with this from behind walls.
Dave
High AC and pray.Â
Get there fast and take them out (they're not that tough). And they are +17 for only 15 damage. And they have to spend a round Recharging (at least per the spoilers).Â
Merchant Guards. Help protect the army.Â
Healing (what little there is).Â
Invisibility.Â
Conceal and pray.Â
I'm open to any other ideas?Â
Thank goodness they are only available to the Wild faction. But we still possibly have Storm Silverhand to go with the coming of the All Stars who might possibly pull in this baddie into Borderlands.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Wolfgang
Commander
2995 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 07/01/2008 5:43 PM |
| | i have to say i would take the right side also seems closer and more room to manauver | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1792 Posts
Portland OR
| | 07/01/2008 7:46 PM |
| | I wondered about the arcane archer myself... Seems fairly strong but thank the mini gods it wasn't BL! This wasn't the map I had in mind for them. It still tough. Anyone who can lay down 60dmg a round at range with no fear of retaliation for at least 3 rounds is scary. Bunch up and your eating 3 cones too... Not beat all end all but fun at least. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 07/02/2008 3:44 AM |
| Posted By Lord_rock on 07/01/2008 7:46 PM
I wondered about the arcane archer myself... Seems fairly strong but thank the mini gods it wasn't BL! This wasn't the map I had in mind for them. It still tough. Anyone who can lay down 60dmg a round at range with no fear of retaliation for at least 3 rounds is scary. Bunch up and your eating 3 cones too... Not beat all end all but fun at least.
How does one get 60 damage a round? At most 60 damage every other round.Â
Per ddmspoilers:
[] Faze Arrow use only with Long Bow attack ignores terrain that blocks LOS, recharge at the end of this creatures turn if it did not attack that turn.Â
So up to 4 of them shoot round 1, 60 damage, then spend round 2 recharging. 60 more damage round 3 if they are not based by then. On the smaller older maps they will be based by start of round 3, on the newer and larger maps, maybe not so (especially maybe so on the Flooded Ruins). Still, its only 60 possible damage every other round and I do not think that is a very good rate of damage output.Â
But overall I agree, a fun warband idea to play. And one in a warband might be very useful.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 07/02/2008 5:46 AM |
| The Archer's Longbow attack does 20 damage, so, four of them are doing 80 in a round. Of course, then they have to wait another round (and not attack at all during that round!). So, with the right bodyguards, the Archers aren't necessarily dropping anything (except bodyguards) that first round.
Imagine: Fire Giant Raider + Bodyguard x4, Wild Mage + Bodyguard x2, Wulfgar and Warhorse + Bodyguard x2, etc.
In every case, you can protect a piece that will then be a threat. With the Wild Mage, the threat might be immediate (stunning the Archer will be a problem). With Wulfgar, you have the ability to move 16 squares (more if you move both of them the first round and end with Wulfgar mounting) and shoot his line. There are dozens of other ways to deal with this, so long as you have bodyguards.
In Underdark, instead of bodyguards, you have the possibility of Conceal or Insubstantial. Also, while shooting through allies doesn't hinder the shooter, shooting through enemies does. So, the Mind Flayer Lich will have a 29 AC instead of 27, meaning that the Archer needs a 12 to hit, so that's no longer a guarantee.
Still, this means that Wild is terribly viable. Anyone without much testing time prior to GenCon can pack up four Elf Arcane Archers and have a chance against a number of bands.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Kevizoid
Sergeant
373 Posts
Southern California
| | 07/02/2008 10:48 AM |
| One is very likely to miss though...so 60 damage a round...as Matt said lol
'
and that band would so autolose vs 4 AA dave lol... | |
SoCal Colluder | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1792 Posts
Portland OR
| | 07/02/2008 12:18 PM |
| | yep... Figured in one miss... Also, after round 2-3 faze arrow isn't going to be use as they will rain of steel and likely to have visible targets by then. Their dmg potential increases as the game progresses. Still not the map I had in mind though... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 07/02/2008 12:42 PM |
| Isn't the Steel Rain thing +13? That's a 20% drop in likelihood of success from the arrow. So, even though more can get caught in the cone, most players are canny enough to prevent more than two from getting caught, and with the lower probability, the total damage output isn't likely to be that much higher.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 07/02/2008 2:20 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 07/02/2008 5:46 AM
The Archer's Longbow attack does 20 damage, so, four of them are doing 80 in a round. Of course, then they have to wait another round (and not attack at all during that round!). So, with the right bodyguards, the Archers aren't necessarily dropping anything (except bodyguards) that first round.
Dave
Argh, read the wrong damage line. 15 damage with his Basic ATT, and 20 damage with his Longbow ATT>Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
1792 Posts
Portland OR
| | 07/02/2008 2:34 PM |
| Rain of steel does target ref however... so the drop isn't very painful for most pieces and for some it is significantly better.
I doubt I would play 4x EAA more than once or twice for fun but 1 maybe even 2 should be great. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 08/03/2008 5:44 AM |
| It's amazing how quickly pieces with speeds of 8 or higher can get across this map. With the recent change to the Shift rules, and handful of creatures have become better suited to standing their ground on the shared victory area. For everyone else, that's a pretty awful place to get caught because you can't shift out.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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