| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Dordledum
Commander
3397 Posts
    
Netherlands
 | | 08/29/2008 2:15 AM |
| Ok,
a friend of mine noted that a lot of people were using the Prisoner again, and we were both wondering why.
30 hp for 5 points is good of course, but that's about it.
Why use a figure which might get you additional vp, but never survives to reach a victory area anyway!
Move 5, with only a single move action per activation (bound: no attack actions).
Please, can anyone clarify his worth?
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
|
Brig
Skirmisher
26 Posts
| | 08/29/2008 4:26 AM |
| | Because per the errata he can make to move actions. The second one does not count as an attack action. Same goes Staggered and Confused creatures. They can now take 2 move actions. | |
| |
|
OhGodtheRats
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 08/29/2008 4:51 AM |
| Also I'm not sure if it's legit, but a bunch of people have been posting warbands with Prisoners on top of Warhorses. Something seems wrong with the idea, but that combo pretty much means you will get the extra victory points. If it's legit.
Me? I've included a Prisoner in my warband when I only had 5 points left and was already working on a "Win via extra Victory Points" strategy. | | | |
|
Dordledum
Commander
3397 Posts
Netherlands
| | 08/29/2008 4:53 AM |
| | Ah, I checked Oracle and it didn't say so, hence my confusion. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
| 
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 08/29/2008 5:07 PM |
| 1) The Prisoner has been fixed, as it were, so that he can use his Attack Action as a Move Action.
413.5.a. A creature can take any move action, including a replaces move power. A creature that cannot take attack actions is not prevented from taking a move action to replace its attack action.
2) The Prisoner on a Warhorse always has an adjacent ally and, thanks to the speed of the Warhorse, is likely to score Victory Points in the first round.
It is a 21-point, 2-activation trick to score you 5 more points, so it may not be worth it.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 08/29/2008 9:56 PM |
| | I like him with a titany piece that will survive... but that was 1.0. I still think he's worth it. It's a garunteed att or two that are not going towards your core pieces. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
|
Dordledum
Commander
3397 Posts
Netherlands
| | 08/30/2008 1:37 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 08/29/2008 5:07 PM 1) The Prisoner has been fixed, as it were, so that he can use his Attack Action as a Move Action. 413.5.a. A creature can take any move action, including a replaces move power. A creature that cannot take attack actions is not prevented from taking a move action to replace its attack action. 2) The Prisoner on a Warhorse always has an adjacent ally and, thanks to the speed of the Warhorse, is likely to score Victory Points in the first round. It is a 21-point, 2-activation trick to score you 5 more points, so it may not be worth it. Dave
the errata said as well:
Prisoner, Objective (Night Below, 40/60): A prisoner is awarded the victory points at the end of its turn.I don't see how you could get this to work 1st round then. 1st round: prisoner mounts horsey, at end of turn no extra vp because not in va.
D.
| |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3929 Posts
USA
| | 08/30/2008 3:36 AM |
| For a cost of two more points over a farmer you get +20 HP. He now becomes that much harder to kill, especially for a Thrall (now takes two swings). He can also be a big distracktion for the opponent if he spends any resources on it trying to kill it.Â
At the Championships I saw a lot of duel Prisoner warbands because they can march eachother to the Victory area and score +10 VP per round. It adds up fast and one needs to spend resources to take them out. And if you are spendijng time taking out Prisoners, your not spending time on your opponents beaters.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
Fundin Strongarm
Sneak
61 Posts
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
| | 08/30/2008 6:34 AM |
| At the Championships I saw a lot of duel Prisoner warbands because they can march eachother to the Victory area and score +10 VP per round.
How do they march each other to the victory area? They still need some other ally adjacent to them, don't they? | |
| |
|
OhGodtheRats
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 08/30/2008 12:00 PM |
| Oh man, if you saw a bunch of dual Prisoner warbands with the prisoners escorting one another, there's some seriously shadiness going down in your Meta. From the Card:
Chained: At end of round,
unless this creature is
adjacent to an ally other
than a creature named
Prisoner, it is eliminated
and the opponent scores
+5 VP.
That said, two prisoners don't seem so bad an idea, even if they do still need a non-prisoner escort. The +10 VP a turn definitely has a nice appeal to it....what's a good legal escort for the two of them? I keep thinking of ways to speed them up reliably and I keep coming up dry. Hobgoblin Marshal comes to mind though.
-Jared | | | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3929 Posts
USA
| | 08/31/2008 5:10 AM |
| Posted By OhGodtheRats on 08/30/2008 12:00 PM Oh man, if you saw a bunch of dual Prisoner warbands with the prisoners escorting one another, there's some seriously shadiness going down in your Meta. From the Card: Chained: At end of round,
unless this creature is
adjacent to an ally other
than a creature named
Prisoner, it is eliminated
and the opponent scores
+5 VP. That said, two prisoners don't seem so bad an idea, even if they do still need a non-prisoner escort. The +10 VP a turn definitely has a nice appeal to it....what's a good legal escort for the two of them? I keep thinking of ways to speed them up reliably and I keep coming up dry. Hobgoblin Marshal comes to mind though. -Jared
You are correct. They cannot "escort" eachother to the VP area and they were usually accompanied by a fodder piece (Goblin Runner or Merchant Guard). But they always seemed to be in marching to the VP area together in pairs. Weird, but at +10 VP per round (so 20 a round), well worth the cost. As I said earlier, also a definate distraction that has to be delt with.Â
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
IANKAVIK
Warrior
211 Posts
COLOMBIA
| | 09/02/2008 1:32 PM |
| I used to play with them in 1.0 only with duergar slaver champion, using him spell in prisoner. Then invisible with a couple of scorts (just like kobold zombies) and getting additional 10 VP.
In 2.0 i am not playing to score extra VP. I am playing to destroy the opponent enterely, so i don´t know how many useful is +5 VP for that miniature when an elf archer is effectively killing fodders with that range attack. | | | |
|
Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 09/02/2008 3:51 PM |
| There were quite a few prisoners played at the championships because having a VP lead is very important when there's a possibility that the game will go to time.Â
Furthermore, everyone knew there were going to be many Thralls at the championship. In a thrall vs. thrall matchup, you often have the situation where both thralls have well over 100 hp and are "practically" unkillable. So, you would need to destroy everything else in the opponent's warband and gain at least 5 rounds of tile points (since the thrall costs 43). If your prisoner has gained 5VP along the way somewhere, you'd only need 4 rounds of tile points. That's a big enough difference to go from defeat to victory.
Besides, in warbands with multiple bodyguards, you have to devote quite a few resources to killing the prisoner before he has racked up quite a few points.Â
IMO, he's better than he was in 1.0 since he scores his +5VP immediately upon reaching the victory area - regardless of if he has an escort or even if he survives the round.
Despite not being able to take attack actions, he can still take two move actions which lets him cover much more ground. Many of the bands that featured prisoners included the Hobgoblin Marshal which could motivate a prisoner if need be (15 squares total), or the Mercenary General who could give them +2 speed (14 squares total). This is enough to get them to victory areas on the first turn from either side of Jungle Temple or Flooded Ruin. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
| |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |