Pagansexy
Sergeant
980 Posts
    
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Pagansexy
Sergeant
980 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:08 PM |
| | Or you could always roll behind the screen. I occasional "cheat" in order to keep the players alive and the story rolling. Of course if they do something stupid and or have been playing their characters in an evil manner, then I have no mercy. I won't cheat to kill them off for being evil but I will defiantly bump up the CR and frequency of encounters. | |
Life is a journey may yours be long, full of wine women and song.
My Have/ Want List::My Trades::Zenko's Price Guide | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:09 PM |
| My PCs call this dice I own "The Killer DM D20" or "The D20 of PCBane +5"
It's pretty scary... It seems to pick favorites every now and then... I'm not so supersitious but that die creeps me out. | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:09 PM |
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I have that happen to me sometimes. I usually tone it down a bit, however if it isn't something that will outright kill a pc (and I don't feel that the PC is doing something stupid and deserves death) I usually let it stand. My players are fairly resourceful and enjoy a good challenge, hence having one of them be sucked into a river or contract severe hypothermia almost seems to give them a sense of glee as they debate the best way to try and fix the horrible event that has befallen them.
Of course once the cleric can start bringing people back to life, all bets are off in my games [}:)]
-Diomedes
EDIT: Ah yes, and I /always/ roll behind a screen to give me a chance to cover for such rolls.
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/14/2005 12:12 PM |
| | Please retire those dice for our PBEM game. [:D] | |
No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Bad Trader
Cha0tic g0od
Skirmisher
0 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Please retire those dice for our PBEM game. [:D]
LOL, why did I know you would say that?[:0]
I do roll behind the screen. Like I said, I will shave some numbers.
Cg | |
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Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:35 PM |
| | As a DM it's sometimes neccesary to cheat so that characters don't go down to stupid bloody death. But at the same time, sometimes the dice kill a character and you have to let it happen. If the risk of death is not real in a game then it's not a game, it's storytime. I hate to lose a charcter to stupid death, but a heroic one makes the character worthwhile. And if I think the DM is keeping me alive and I should be dead three times over, the character loses it's flavour and then I just want it to die so I can move on. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/14/2005 12:41 PM |
| If Pc's die because of their own stupidity, I never fudge dice.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
If Pc's die because of their own stupidity, I never fudge dice.
AHA! I do that too! It's usually pretty bad when... hm... Sense Motive to asses teh threat. "Dire Threat, you will most likely lose" "SWEET! More EXP! CHARGE!" The rest of the party leaves and he still insists on fighting...
Why? | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 12:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
If the risk of death is not real in a game then it's not a game, it's storytime. I hate to lose a charcter to stupid death, but a heroic one makes the character worthwhile.
I agree 100%, dying defending a group of fleeing villages is a cool way to go, getting decapitated on a surprise round by an eye of gruumsh since you just happened to be standing closest to where he appeared is a bad way to go.
-Diomedes | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 1:22 PM |
| I, too, dislike stupid character death, but what can you do? They decided to fail that RL INT check, and ran their character pell mell into whatever hopeless, preventable, dire death trap you presented said character with. Oh yeah, that sucker's toast, or maybe a nice gumbo -- depends on the region. [}:)][)]
However, if the party is really working hard, trying to make it through all of the challenges reasonably and mostly thorougly, I won't kill them outright. Oh, making them beg for mommy or change those trousers afterwards is definitely a good DM reward for a well-planned slaughter encounter. [)]
I see the dice as the ultimate equalizer. If your character is too unbalanced -- it happens, despite what we do -- then a few crits will stick, and depending on the source, "Roll that FORT save!" Ah, the joys of mass damage... However, it is harder to take out the characters who try to keep the rest going, notably the cleric, but not always. I generally ease up on those guys a bit, and give them enough to keep them interested. They already have their hands full with the party. | |
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 1:56 PM |
| | on the other hand, I rolled either a 1 or a 2 three rounds running when a 3 would have hit the much DEX drained warmage. | |
I am a leaf on the wind...Urrk!!--Wash, "Serenity" | |
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Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 03/14/2005 4:23 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Grim
on the other hand, I rolled either a 1 or a 2 three rounds running when a 3 would have hit the much DEX drained warmage.
Yeah, but like said above, it's an equalizer...I was too weak to die. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 03/15/2005 2:20 AM |
| I haven't been a DM much, but here is my opinion:
I think that I would let the rolls stand as is and then allow the player to join in the next session as a character of the same level. I know that the player might be a bit down about the whole thing. But, as can be seen by the many posts above, this can be a difficult decision to make. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/15/2005 8:18 AM |
| I game with a guy who also DMs from time to time. He has this black D20 and it's amazing this thing will roll 20s at the most unfortunate (for the players) times.
However, as uncanny as it sounds, he will also roll 1s at the most unfortunate (for the DM) times.
I've seen him roll 20s followed by 1s on more than one occasion. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 03/15/2005 5:02 PM |
| For the most part, I take a pretty hard line with dice rolls, but at the same time, sometimes randomness is just stupid and should be done away with, especially if it gives illogical results.
There are times when I just pretend to roll and simply assume success or failure based on the logic of the situation, and the same goes for player rolls where sometimes I just totally ignore what is rolled and go with a predetermined solution.
Neither the DM nor players should be slaves to randomness. However, players seem to always think that randomness is good. This is because all players are dumb. So the solution is to simply not tell them. | |
Bite me. | |
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Knight of Wuzz
Wuzzard
-827 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 6:09 PM |
| My experience has always been that a DM's dice never rolls below 18 when attempting to hit against a fighter type with high armor class, but yet always seems to roll low, 5, when trying to hit against a mage with low armor class.
Hmmmmm. | | | |
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Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 6:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wuzzard
My experience has always been that a DM's dice never rolls below 18 when attempting to hit against a fighter type with high armor class, but yet always seems to roll low, 5, when trying to hit against a mage with low armor class.
Hmmmmm.
Yeah, it's funny. I've noticed in many games, no matter who DMs that rogues, diplomats and wizards all seem to be surprisingly good at not getting hit. Maybe it's just good Kharma?
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"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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Doctari
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 7:00 PM |
| A 3rd edition wizard at 5th level in a combat situation should have a armor class around 28 (or higher if he has cats grace running). Even in 3.5 he will have 23 or so. Its not like they are paper thin.
As far as other diplomat types (bards and the like).. well the gods watch out for the lucky and the foolish.
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New year, New season. We are all unbeaten. | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2026 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 8:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
There are times when I just pretend to roll and simply assume success or failure based on the logic of the situation, and the same goes for player rolls where sometimes I just totally ignore what is rolled and go with a predetermined solution.
I also use this as a way to get players from one place to another quickly. Over-rolling should avoided just like over-role playing. Keep the game going at a logical, steady pace, but if stupidity rears its ugly head---KILL IT! (or at least don't pull punches).
One thing, don't tell your players if you shave a roll or two (or ten) because the trust factor will be gone and will lose its flavor. | |
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"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
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Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 8:37 PM |
| Online and live I use karma points to help players over bumps. Karma, from SR, is just an expression of luck built up through good role playing. Players who kill their fellow group members, sow confusion and discord out of character, and generally make like a living hell for me, get few if any karma points. Characters who go the extra mile get lots. Going the extra mile includes recognizing other characters and reacting to their back stories, sticking to their back story, and any act that makes the game move forward.
A karma point is a reroll of the bad event, it is that simple. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
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Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 03/16/2005 11:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zeb
I also use this as a way to get players from one place to another quickly. Over-rolling should avoided just like over-role playing. Keep the game going at a logical, steady pace, but if stupidity rears its ugly head---KILL IT! (or at least don't pull punches).
One thing, don't tell your players if you shave a roll or two (or ten) because the trust factor will be gone and will lose its flavor.
Yah, definitely. I only do this maybe once a session. It just depends on whether the situation warrants it. Random is fun for the most part, but it can also be stupid. And there are definitely times when I speed things up during a session to get things moving. Otherwise, the players would spend an eternity discussing the relative nature of the ogre's chaotic, but not necessarily evil, inclinations in parallel with how society treats them... [V] | |
Bite me. | |
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bombur
Sergeant
362 Posts
| | 03/17/2005 1:05 AM |
| | Also as DM you are rolling your dice a lot more than the players, you will get more extreme results than they will just because you get more of any kind of results. | |
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What you need to know about trading with me. | |
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Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/17/2005 1:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by bombur
Also as DM you are rolling your dice a lot more than the players, you will get more extreme results than they will just because you get more of any kind of results.
Trick: have them roll their own attacks on themselves by monsters. He heheheheheheh | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4459 Posts
| | 03/17/2005 11:19 AM |
| quote:
If Pc's die because of their own stupidity, I never fudge dice.
Absolutely!
I'm running a VERY slow moving campaign. I cobled together Sunless Citadel, and a VERY heavy tweaking of the Temple From DL1 as a lead in to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. RttToEE is deadly, and probably has more reports of TPK than any published adventure that I've seen. I'm trying to plant all kinds of seeds in my cobbled together prologue. If I screw up an encounter with an unbalanced CR, I'm GOING to fudge some rolls. I want them to start the module, not get killed doing the introductory investigation.
That said, one of the adventurers (I think he was trying to see how far I'd go...) didn't run away when he was supposed to. He levitated straight up into the air in plain sight of an enemey wizard. 1 Lightning bolt later, he was rolling up a new character...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 03/17/2005 11:25 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slapdragon
Trick: have them roll their own attacks on themselves by monsters. He heheheheheheh
Wow, that's almost sadistic ;)
-Diomedes
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Zenako
Commander
3451 Posts
| | 03/17/2005 11:47 AM |
| The dice are what the dice are. However, the game should not be a slave to the dice and the "game" sometimes requires a not quite so random roll to remain fun for the gathering or people. We tend to play about 1/month, so causally knocking off a PC due to pure randomness early in a session would be bad. IF that crazy dwarf barbarian insisted on charging into the swarm of giants single handed and gets turned into dwarf paste, so be it. On a fresh group, I would let rolls fall where they may. No IK's exist as a direct result of some crit table so that is not a problem and fresh PC's can take some punishment and use up some of their healing. I tend to have a very good idea about how healthy all the PC's are at any given time. Fudging a die roll or two is much more likely at lower levels when the PC's are less capable and the ease of taking them down that much simpler. One good triple damage Crit from an Ogre with a large weapon can make it dirt nap time for lots of PC's. If the characters knowingly engage a powerful foe, then the dice rule. During a surprise encounter or random encounter, which is not central to the plot, at those times the punch might get pulled.
Care must be taken to not completely overrule the dice. Perhaps they do get criticalled, and to keep that always in there minds, let it stand, but then perhaps fudge the damage dice a bit. D10's and D12's have a big range, and that can make the difference between just going down and dying. I have no problem taking PC's negative and out of action for a bit, its the killing of them at lower levels that can muck up the game session a lot. | |
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Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 03/18/2005 11:15 AM |
| On this topic, I just got to quote the saying from Living Arcanis..
"Stupidity leads to Character Creation"
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/18/2005 11:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
[quote] RttToEE is deadly, and probably has more reports of TPK than any published adventure that I've seen.
Hmm, makes me want to run it. [}:)] | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 03/18/2005 11:21 PM |
| | Yes, many of my fellow players died in the return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Coincidentally this was alos one of the evil campaigns Iwe talked about in another thread...the one wher I was a necromancer...let em die, they continued to serve. It was great. Eventually my necro died and was replaced by a water genasi. In the temple of elemental evil...go figure. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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brazenwood
Sergeant
383 Posts
Etowah NC
| | 03/21/2005 8:24 PM |
| I have a confession to make about last Sunday's game. We've started a new campaign and its set on this really cool Isle called Teneir in the Sea of Solar Bards (a prestige class in my world) and the city they are in has a lot of ancient history with ruins outside the main walls. They were investigating the ruins when they chanced upon a group of warlike kobolds, i used 8 cr 1/4 kobolds, 4 crossbow kobolds and 4 warriors, a kobold champion to challenge our vow of poverty monk, and a 5th level Kobold sorcerer, armed with the fireburst spell from MHB...Anyway the party level was third, and they should have had a tough encounter, but my party usually blows through encounters up to 3 cr higher than they are...although one party memeber fell in a previous battle right before the kobolds.
I should have toned it down, but the party needed a lesson in humility and defeat. They are so cocky all the time and very strategic at the same time, which makes them highly successful. Anyway I had one of my usual lukcy streaks against them, luckier than i can ever recall being before though. I rolled over 22 natural 20's and a host of crit 19's! it seemned like every time i touched the dice, 20!
When most of the party was staggered (we play that your character stays staggered at 0 to half your con into the negatives) the party cleric rushed the kobold sorcerer and he cast fireburst for 5D^ reflex for half. i assumed he would make his reflex save (bad assumption) and the damage put him -5 past his - constitution level, so he died.
I felt kind of weird about it, because i remember designing the encounter for 4 pcs, and I also remember in the middle of combat a sadistic streak kicking in. I played my creatures to the hilt, as if i was in their heads and what i would do to prevail no matter what, and even though every last one of the kobolds died, we inflicted huge losses on the party. They couldn't even carry their treasure out of the dungeon, and are planning on going back to get it...anyway, thanks for hearing my confession. i love this new campaign, but the party was being hunted by a blood cult for their interfering anyway, and now the party leader is dead, so maybe they'll lay off them for a while and i can get back to Dming without vengeance, and i will stop rolling so many dang 20's during a session. i so wanted to fudge some of them when it came down to the wire, but part of me just took over, and said, oh well, the party's gonna have a bitter day..
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Kelly Lee Phipps
Visit my New Fantasy World Website: www.astrofantasy.com
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Satsujin Kingyo
Underboss
1247 Posts
| | 03/24/2005 10:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pagansexy
Or you could always roll behind the screen. I occasional "cheat" in order to keep the players alive and the story rolling. Of course if they do something stupid and or have been playing their characters in an evil manner, then I have no mercy. I won't cheat to kill them off for being evil but I will defiantly bump up the CR and frequency of encounters.
Whats wrong with an evil PC? You should'nt make it your mission to off a PC for being evil. (Evil characters usually cause less in-party conflict than than a paladin does.) You should make it your mission to run a fair game. Granted, it is best to go on full alert when a player asks "can my character be _ evil?", although one can generally tell by intuition whether or not allowing a person to play an evil PC is a good idea. (You know of what I speak...)
I have NEVER fudged a roll, nor will I ever. I can understand why some may be inclined to, but I play the dice as they roll. Doing this helps remind PCs their characters are not untouchable. | |
Drumsticks can also be chicken. -Tardy Turtle | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 03/24/2005 11:16 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Satsujin Kingyo
quote:
Originally posted by Pagansexy
Or you could always roll behind the screen. I occasional "cheat" in order to keep the players alive and the story rolling. Of course if they do something stupid and or have been playing their characters in an evil manner, then I have no mercy. I won't cheat to kill them off for being evil but I will defiantly bump up the CR and frequency of encounters.
Whats wrong with an evil PC? You should'nt make it your mission to off a PC for being evil. (Evil characters usually cause less in-party conflict than than a paladin does.) You should make it your mission to run a fair game. Granted, it is best to go on full alert when a player asks "can my character be _ evil?", although one can generally tell by intuition whether or not allowing a person to play an evil PC is a good idea. (You know of what I speak...)
I have NEVER fudged a roll, nor will I ever. I can understand why some may be inclined to, but I play the dice as they roll. Doing this helps remind PCs their characters are not untouchable.
Evil has never failed to cause inner-party conflict, and as long as the pally isn't lawful stupid he hasn't caused conflict in the group either (That lawful stupid paladin was pretty funny) BUT, I've heard myths of evil parties working out. Just as lnog as the whole party is tolerable of each other, maybe its just the players I've DMd for.
Also: I dislike fudging rolls, but I'm not going to ruin my own plot because a dice did that. Dice are too important to ruin an epic. | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Satsujin Kingyo
Underboss
1247 Posts
| | 03/24/2005 2:06 PM |
| Here's the thing. Evil people do whatever is most profitable for them. Causing conflict with those you rely on to watch your back is not very profitable. Hard-to-take evil PCs and Lawful Stupid paladins are both played by the same type of person. Diablo 2 addicted high school students who grab every piece of treasure they can, use what they need and sell the rest. (No offense to Diablo 2 addicts or high school students, as I am both, but you get what I'm saying.)
It all falls to the player.
P.S. a dice roll can't ruin your plot IF you always have a back-up plan. | |
Drumsticks can also be chicken. -Tardy Turtle | |
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