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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
    
Australia
 | | 04/13/2005 1:00 AM |
| | recovered topic 2298 | |
Merric Blackman
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/13/2005 1:00 AM |
| Eberron (one B and two Rs) is the correct spelling. [:)]
I've heard some very good things about it; but it hasn't come into Ballarat yet.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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| Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 04/13/2005 7:08 AM |
| I had a flip through it at my last rpg session. One of my fellow players picked it up. I really liked it. It had me very quickly considering races as viable options, the same races I had dismissed when I looked throught the eberron sourcebook.
I take back anything I said about this book before it came out. Almost.[)] | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 04/13/2005 7:32 AM |
| | *sigh* Yet another book to get. | |
Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Satsujin Kingyo
Underboss
1247 Posts
| | 04/13/2005 3:03 PM |
| | Oh definetely, anyone know if Poison Dusk Lizardfolk got some spotlight in "Other Races of Eberron"? | |
Drumsticks can also be chicken. -Tardy Turtle | |
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 04/14/2005 1:21 PM |
| I am just curious is they add or change anything of substance from the Eberron Campaign book (like perhaps giving the Warforged a level adjustment, as an example). Also, is it OGC or still closed content?
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
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Stabmastaarson
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 04/14/2005 9:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Satsujin Kingyo
Oh definetely, anyone know if Poison Dusk Lizardfolk got some spotlight in "Other Races of Eberron"?
That's a big negative. I was hoping for some more info on them as well. Ah well...lots of other good stuff though | |
Better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/14/2005 9:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Captain Harlock
I am just curious is they add or change anything of substance from the Eberron Campaign book (like perhaps giving the Warforged a level adjustment, as an example). Also, is it OGC or still closed content?
Warforged don't have a level adjustment.
It's still closed content.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 04/19/2005 9:25 PM |
| Eberron is where it is at.
It irks me that I have to wait months after the rest of the world has this stuff to get the material.
I'm still waiting on the novels I ordered at the beginning of the year to arrive in Australia. I can get the hardcover versions here for $46.00 - forget that! | |
I have always been here. | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/20/2005 12:10 AM |
| Where are you, Glauron?
It's rare that a new D&D RPG book is delayed more than a month here in Ballarat, and I've even had them before they were released in the USA! Races of the Wild is a case in point.
Ballarat got "Races of Eberron" and "Lords of Madness" in yesterday - it probably would have been sooner but the owner of the FLGS has been away for the past two weeks.
Novels are slightly more delayed into the regular bookstores. I got "City of Towers" through my FLGS last month; it arrived in bookstores in Ballarat a week or so ago.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/20/2005 12:13 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Scarecrow
I looked through this book yesterday, and was fairly impressed. Was just curious if anyone owns it and what thier thoughts were on it.
Bought it yesterday (along with Libris Mortis, Sandstorm and Lords of Madness - I've been catching up).
Looks pretty good so far. You've got to like a book that has a feat called "Jaws of Death"!
Jaws of Death [Warforged]
Gnashing teeth and a powerful set of jaws allow you to bite foes.
(Gives a 1d6 bite attack, counts as a secondary natural weapon).
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Scarecrow
Sergeant
788 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 1:02 AM |
| | Sounds great so far. Thanks Merric. Out of curiosity, might you be giving us a write up on it in a couple of weeks? I've found your past reviews pretty helpful. | |
I need a newcastle... | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/20/2005 1:41 AM |
| I'll see what I can do. With four new D&D books, a couple of new novels and a couple of campaigns to run (and write adventures for) I've been fairly busy recently. [:)]
I do intend to write one, though.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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| 
Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 10:31 AM |
|
Hey guys, I just got it yesterday.
I must say. I really like this book. Let's start with my bias, I do like Eberron. Yep, I like Forgotten Realms too, and I have (as some of you probably know) a secret burning passion for planescape, but I do play Eberron a fair amount.
So I picked up a copy of Races of Eberron and started flipping through it. I was expecting to not flip too much until I encountered dense stat blocks and scads of little pictures of people firing beams of light from their orifices with captions like "Super Destroyer Prestige Class" and "Yet ANOTHER Prestige Class". But wait, I saw pictures but where were the pages upon pages of Stats and rules? Biting my lip I flipped to the table of contents where I had to actually look up where feats/spell/prestige classes were (they were shorter and waaaay at the back).
Yes! The return of fluff has returned with all its' fluffy goodness! As I am playing a changeling right now in a game, I flipped over to that section and started reading there. The section opened with a story about what a changeling might do on a given day (full of flavor and fun). It then continued to discuss the different mental attitudes of changelings towards their state in life and how they might respond in terms of outlook and action (great for NPCs and PCs).
Around this time I was interrupted as I had to go actually take care of my duties and responsibilities around the house, however as I set the book down I slid and grabbed the back cover. What's that back there? Why they included a section from Keith Baker's book "The Dreaming Dark". While it may seem like more WotC cross promotion, flipping through it actually gave me some more nice flavor text for the setting.
All and all, I really am enjoying my read through the book. Lots on the races, who they are, how the work in Eberron, how they can work in /not/ Eberron, some fun exotic weapons, a few feats, a few prcs, and a few spells/infusions.
I vote: Buy it if you like Eberron at all. Even if you don't run an Eberron game, I think there's a lot of potential here. A lot of the racial outlooks seem like they could be lifted and plunked on a couple of monstrous races and turned into an organization in any game setting (so you don't even have to import the Eberron race). I can't reiterate enough that I see myself as a sort of scavenger of ideas, picking over this book and that book for content that I like. This book has a /lot/ more to pick through than most of the other races books that I've picked through IMO.
-Diomedes | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 10:41 AM |
| YAAAAAAAAAY!!! THANK YOU [:D]
I just wanted to know hte fluff/crunch ratio and thanks for that Dio, I'm definitely buying this. | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 1:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
Jaws of Death [Warforged]
Gnashing teeth and a powerful set of jaws allow you to bite foes.
(Gives a 1d6 bite attack, counts as a secondary natural weapon).
Nice, it makes me want to play a Warforged Monk named Bitey. Well, I guess it would fit better with a Warforged Barbarian. Still, you gotta love biting things! | |
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 2:19 PM |
| | Really? All my players saw that feat and thought of "Jaws" from the 007 movies. I think I heard a few muttered themes from the Jaws movie as well. Who takes a feat like that? How animalistic do you want your pc to be? Well, we had an anthropomorhic lizard in our party at one time but that was different. :P | |
I am a leaf on the wind...Urrk!!--Wash, "Serenity" | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/20/2005 2:34 PM |
| | [Homer] I call the big one Bitey [/Homer] | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 9:09 PM |
| Its an impressive book, loads of great fluff in there. The chapter on Warforged blew me away, they thought it through quite well. Their outlook and the upheaval they've caused in society has been taken into account quite well.
I do have a few concerns with the power level of some of the feats and other abilities in there. The Swiftwing stream of shifters worries me a bit, as does one of the feats in there for [shapechanger] subtypes (I forget the feat's name). With the expenditure of two action points, I can make a 1st level cleric's enlarge person last for SIX MINUTES?!
And as usual, the Racial Substitution levels are a powergamer's wet dream. Don't believe me, take a look at Changeling Rogue, now throw the Improved Feint ability in there. Or worse yet, any of the Shifter selections! Shifter Rangers and the fact that a Swiftwing can gain a FLYING TIGER? Shifter Wilders gaining the Egoist list and regaining PPs when they shift? Or Shifter Druids giving up an animal companion for extra spells and stat boosts? Then again, the problem of Racial Sub levels has been there since Races of Stone.
All in all though, a very good book. The PrCs are interesting and fit well into Eberron, and the fluff is top-notch stuff. | |
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Stabmastaarson
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 9:12 PM |
| Nice Diomedes, I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm excited by all the flavor that's been added lately in WoTC books. I enjoy the hell out of Eberron and seeing all that background info was great.
I give it a thumbs up, well worth the money
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Better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not
My Have/Want list
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/20/2005 11:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
And as usual, the Racial Substitution levels are a powergamer's wet dream. Don't believe me, take a look at Changeling Rogue, now throw the Improved Feint ability in there.
Uh - give up Trapfinding for the ability to Take 10 on Bluff checks? Why is that good?
quote:
Or worse yet, any of the Shifter selections! Shifter Rangers and the fact that a Swiftwing can gain a FLYING TIGER?
A flying tiger with a fly speed of 20 feet (Average). 1/day (unless a lot of feats are burnt on shifter feats). Oh, and your ranger must be 14th level to even have a tiger.
quote:
Shifter Wilders gaining the Egoist list and regaining PPs when they shift?
Well, unless the shifter burns a lot of feats on shifting, this is once per day and 9 PP at 20th level for a class that has 343+ PPs. It isn't exactly scary.
Even with 7 shifter feats, this is 4/day.
The Shifter also has a -2 Cha, meaning a loss of about 10 PP at 20th level, compared to a regular character.
The access to the Egoist list looks good... until you remember that a Wilder has a very limited number of powers known. 11 maximum at 20th level! Yes, they have a slightly greater array of power choices, but that's it.
quote:
Or Shifter Druids giving up an animal companion for extra spells and stat boosts?
That's an interesting ability. I can't evaluate how powerful it is, though. The Ability bonus is the most significant; the extra spells are weak. (An extra 3rd when you can cast 5th level spells and an extra 6th when you can cast 8th level spells are not shatteringly powerful).
Animal companions are a significant druid ability; losing your animal companion should give significant benefits.
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Merric Blackman
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 04/21/2005 1:31 AM |
| One by one:
Taking 10 on bluff, to FEINT IN COMBAT, and get sneak attack every round. Makes for one heck of an assassin, and/or the ultimate social rogue.
For the ranger, take the natural bond feat at third level, and get it at 11th. All the rest, lets see. Wildhunt stream, healing factor or shifter ferocity at first, shifter instincts at 6th, Extra Shifter Trait: Swiftwing at 9th. This is off the top of my head, give me the books and half an hour and I can come up with much worse.
The Shifter Wilder is once again nasty as all heck, the main concern for Egoist access is Metamorphosis. 1st level feat is Metamorphic Transfer, and the rest are Shifter feats. OR, ignore Metamorphosis and take Fission and Fusion. Once again, you take shifter feats and you can now Shift to offset the effects of a blown surge. I did forget that Shifters had a Cha penalty though, so you got me there.
The Druid one I really need to sit down with my calculator and work with, but the fact that you can have a +6 bonus to a stat at higher levels, and your Spirit can manifest as an animal companion of that level ANYWAY means that in the long run, you give nothing up.
Of course, my usual caveat on D&D applies here, a dedicated build can break anything. The problem is though, that Racial Sub levels make it easier. The fact is, that if one is trying to just optimise, not even powergame a Shifter, you take heaps of shifter feats, which uberises all the abilities their Racial Subs give. It all feeds together.
That, and the fact that I have nothing but contempt for the fact that the racial sub levels reinforce stereotypes, and the idea is flawed. I'm a Dwarven Fighter*, so I'm tougher and better than another fighter? Riiiiiiight.
*-Still probably the most broken Racial Sub scheme in any of the books. Nothing is given up by two of the three levels, and it gives a d12 HD! | |
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glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 04/21/2005 1:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
Where are you, Glauron?
Cheers!
Hi Merric,
I'm just a bit north of Ballarat in a suburb on the SW outskirts of Sydney. The local gaming store has had issues with Wizards are refuses to stock their stuff, but will purchase through third parties, to order. So I get stuck in the long supply chain.
I can drive 45 minutes to a shop Burwood (inner city suburb)to buy my cases of minis. And I could probably take a one - hour train ride each way to the city to get the books at Tin Soldier. Or I could drive 9 hours south to Ballarat and say hi. [:)]
I know the book will be good. All the ECS material is. Descriptions here have me drooling. I might get on a train tomorrow. | |
I have always been here. | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 04/21/2005 2:12 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
One by one:
Taking 10 on bluff, to FEINT IN COMBAT, and get sneak attack every round. Makes for one heck of an assassin, and/or the ultimate social rogue.
Why is Taking 10 for Bluff so much better than rolling a d20 for the check? This isn't Take 20. On average, you're actually worse off.
A flanking or invisible Rogue can make multiple sneak attacks in a turn without giving up all but one attack for a Bluff check in any case.
quote:
For the ranger, take the natural bond feat at third level, and get it at 11th.
A 45 hp tiger with a 14 AC is not significant even at 11th level, flying or not.
quote:
The Shifter Wilder is once again nasty as all heck, the main concern for Egoist access is Metamorphosis. 1st level feat is Metamorphic Transfer, and the rest are Shifter feats. OR, ignore Metamorphosis and take Fission and Fusion. Once again, you take shifter feats and you can now Shift to offset the effects of a blown surge. I did forget that Shifters had a Cha penalty though, so you got me there.
Metamorphic Transfer requires manifester level 5th; Metamorphosis can only be taken once 8th level is reached.
Of course, Metamorphosis could also be taken by another race with the Expanded Knowledge feat, albeit two levels later.
quote:
The Druid one I really need to sit down with my calculator and work with, but the fact that you can have a +6 bonus to a stat at higher levels, and your Spirit can manifest as an animal companion of that level ANYWAY means that in the long run, you give nothing up.
You might want to look at that second ability again - the shifter has to summon the animal first (Full Round action, Stamdard action from 12th), then transfer the spirit (move action), and loses the other bonuses for the duration (1 round/level, per normal summon spell).
quote:
The fact is, that if one is trying to just optimise, not even powergame a Shifter, you take heaps of shifter feats, which uberises all the abilities their Racial Subs give. It all feeds together.
In the case of the Wilder how much of a bonus are the shifter feats really giving the Wilder's core competencies? Very little at all! The Wilder is effectively a spell-user, and the shifting feats don't significantly improve the Wilder's psionic abilities.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 04/21/2005 5:29 AM |
| Swiftwing is probably a bad example for the Shifting companion, as is the tiger. Mostly a case of my Druid playing coming to the fore. Longfang Elite + Beasthide Dire Weasel is better for the d4+1 unsaveable con damage.
For the Wilder, sub around the feat order then. Someone else has my XPH and RoE right now, so I can't break them out to start twinking. And I have seen some nasty combat based Wilder builds, the fact that you no longer need the Expanded Knowledge to get some of those powers (which augment your combat power significantly) is a huge boon. Heck, it actually means that they can get Animal Affinity, and start augmenting it via a wild surge to send their stats through the roof!
Meh, I think it may be better if we just agree to disagree. On the matter of psionics though, I will love RoE forever for making Soulknives a class with some actual power. | |
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My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 04/22/2005 3:25 AM |
| Hey for those whom have it, did they change the cover??
While I notice the WotC still have the brown cover, I noticed elsewhere the book with the same blackish style of the other Eberron books. Which did they go with? | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 9:54 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
Hey for those whom have it, did they change the cover??
While I notice the WotC still have the brown cover, I noticed elsewhere the book with the same blackish style of the other Eberron books. Which did they go with?
Sadly, the went with the non-eberron cover. This is tragic as when I plunk books down on my shelf I like to nod and give a contented sigh, "Yes, yes, look at all those spines, they look so nice together!". Now I need to place the Eberron setting next to my core books so that the spines go together while not disrupting subject matter:
XXXXABBBB
X = core books
A = Races of Eberron
B = Eberron books
See, that way RoE can stay with the Eberron books, yet match the spines of the core books. Not my fav solution as I'd rather have my FR books next to my core books. Ah well ;)
-Diomedes | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 04/22/2005 2:17 PM |
|
I know how you feel, I don't have any Eberron books as of yet, still considering it, but I hate how the Draconomicon breaks up the pattern between Core Books, FR and my Races/Complete series. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
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Satsujin Kingyo
Underboss
1247 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 6:13 AM |
| Hey, an open question to anyone who has this book.
What were the racial substition levels, as in which three classes for each race? In particular, do they have RSLs for Shifter Druids? 'Cause right now I'm considering going to work on a cool idea for Shifter Druid RSLs, but I don't wanna do it if it's been done. | |
Drumsticks can also be chicken. -Tardy Turtle | |
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 2:19 PM |
| Well, what type of NEW information does this book contain? Would it be interesting for someone to buy who has no interest in the PC races of Eberron?
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 2:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Satsujin Kingyo
Hey, an open question to anyone who has this book.
What were the racial substition levels, as in which three classes for each race? In particular, do they have RSLs for Shifter Druids? 'Cause right now I'm considering going to work on a cool idea for Shifter Druid RSLs, but I don't wanna do it if it's been done.
Yeah, they've got one for shifter druid.
Captain Harlock, I'm not sure I understand your question. The book is loaded with new information. When you say you're not interested in the PC races of Eberron, does that mean that you're looking for expanded information on elves in eberron (there's some on that) does that mean that you're looking for spell and such? I really don't know what you're asking for. Can you try asking your question again in another way?
-Diomedes
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 2:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Diomedes
quote:
Originally posted by Satsujin Kingyo
Hey, an open question to anyone who has this book.
What were the racial substition levels, as in which three classes for each race? In particular, do they have RSLs for Shifter Druids? 'Cause right now I'm considering going to work on a cool idea for Shifter Druid RSLs, but I don't wanna do it if it's been done.
Yeah, they've got one for shifter druid.
Captain Harlock, I'm not sure I understand your question. The book is loaded with new information. When you say you're not interested in the PC races of Eberron, does that mean that you're looking for expanded information on elves in eberron (there's some on that) does that mean that you're looking for spell and such? I really don't know what you're asking for. Can you try asking your question again in another way?
-Diomedes
I am looking for expanded background information on the normal races and any Non-PC (or at least not the PC races that were listed in the Eberron campaign books) races. (Especially villianous races). Also for any new and interesting feats, spells, skills, etc, that do not involve Warforged or Shifters or Changellings or that other new race they introduced.
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
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Durandal
Sneak
86 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 8:06 PM |
| | Thus far, I've been a big fan of the Races of Eberron book - it really expanded my knowledge of how the new races in Eberron lived and worked, and even though I'm just a player in an online game, my DM sure thought it was fun stuff to play around with. :) | |
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Scarecrow
Sergeant
788 Posts
| | 05/01/2005 9:29 PM |
| I have to admit I was skeptical, but so far this book is great. This is by far one of the best D&D books I've bought in awhile. I'm not completely done with it, but all the close ups on the races were well done. The Kalashtar, which I once thought were the least intriguing race of Eberron, are much more interesting to me now. This book really fleshed things out. Left me wanting more.
Even though they may not be that powerful in game terms, the racial substition levels are a great way to add some much needed flavor to your game. I saw this first with the drow article in Dragon, with them getting a few racial levels for the soul knife class. The ability to make your blade into a bow. It was nice to see more of that in RoE.
So far, great book. | |
I need a newcastle... | |
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glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 05/04/2005 7:43 PM |
| MMMM. Finally got my hands on a copy. The book was up to expectations, and I look forward to reading every word in the days ahead.
If you want to see a picture of a mean ogre, this book has it, and much more.
I also bit the bullet and bought MMIII. More light reading with that. [:)] | |
I have always been here. | |
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