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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
    
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 1:59 AM |
| The Complete books would be my choice. The feats and spells can be easily incorporated into any game. They really are just massive toolkits, and have lots of fun material for players and GM alike. If you can handle how feats and PrCs work, its easy to deal with.
The Races series are a bit specific flavour wise, and are horribly overpowered (damn Racial subs!).
The monster series is good, but Draconomicon is of limited use (how often do you use dragons?) and is full of "I hate my players" material (Metabreath feats). Libris Mortis was good, if you use lots of undead, but could have been better. Lord of Madness is very creepy, but should be used sparingly to preserve the mystery and horror of the creatures is covers. | |
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bombur
Sergeant
362 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 2:00 AM |
| You ought to be able to run a perectly good campaign with just the Core books (PHB, BMG, MM), especially if you are all new to the rules. Heck since you are new to the rules avoid the complete and races of series. Sure they give you more options but at this point do you really need them? Also money is an issue avoid anything you are planning to run a lot. Don't do Dragons much? No Draconomicon. No Psionics, no Expanded Psionic Handbook etc. Woo-Hoo, I just saved you a bunch of money on your game insurance... err... Anyway, as for what you should spend your money on, you might want to either think about buying a setting book(s) or the little adventures that WotC but out for third edition. If you are playing 3.5 they need a little modifing but you sound like an old hand so I don't think that will be a big deal.
To make a long post short, there are a ton of options out there for the latest rule set, some of which are broken and some of which are nigh on useless. But untill you are familiar with how the basic core rules work you are probably going to have a hard time telling which is which or what you and your players are interested in. Get some time with just core in and then figure out what you want/need (this wasn't as short as I thought it would be, oh well). | |
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MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 05/05/2005 2:25 AM |
| To begin with, just use the Core books. They are very, very complete just in themselves, with plenty of options. [)]
The Complete series are probably the next step, especially for your players.
"Races of..." and the Monster series aren't as useful in general play.
As a DM, I'd then suggest the Manual of the Planes; and the environ books (Frostburn, Sandstorm) if you're moving in that direction. However, the DMG2 may be even better for general play.
The Genre series (Heroes of Battle; Heroes of Horror) may also be of interest.
Cheers!
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Merric Blackman
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MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 05/05/2005 2:28 AM |
| Oh, and get Dungeon Magazine.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Corim Danex
Warlord
6562 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/05/2005 2:38 AM |
| | I agree that it may be best to use the core books for a full campaign. That will give you the perspective and understanding to know if you want additional sources, and if so, which direction you want to go. The 3.5 game makes a lot more sense after working through a full campaign. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 2:52 AM |
| If you're new to the 3.5 rules set, then stick to the three core books for now. I take a lot of the "Complete" material for granted, but I had the advantage of a blank slate. There are a lot of things that build off the highly tactical nature of 3.X combat, and it can be easy to get lost amidst that.
Stick to the 3 cores for now, and if you do want to step up, then go with the Complete books. For GMing, I echo MerricB's sentiments, but be wary of letting your players near the Environment books. Oh, and avoid the Planar Handbook like the disease it is, grab the Manual of the Planes. | |
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Link
Warrior
314 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/05/2005 3:25 AM |
| I totally agree with sticking to the core books.
Apart from that, every series has it's good and bad books: I like Races of the Wild (especially for the background it provides, but there are some nice new gaming elements in there as well), but I don't like Races of Destiny at all. Complete Adventurer is great (especially for player options), but I still don't really use Complete warrior. In general, I think the "races" is more of use to DMs than "Complete", but I wouldn't buy any whole series if I were you. Try to borrow some copies here and there and look for yourself what you can use.
As for the Type-themed books (Dracon, Libris, Madness): IMO there is nothing in there a creative DM would really miss in his game. Get the Monster Manual and add the 'fluff' yourself. | |
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bassman2972
Underboss
1671 Posts
The ville IN. AKA Hell on earth
| | 05/05/2005 3:29 AM |
| | I'd say just save your money and use the core books like so many others have said. I do find settings books interesting though to add a little history to the world you're playing in. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 3:40 AM |
| OK Link, that's weird. In my experience, Complete Warrior is probably the most used of them all. None of the Complete books was completely lame, although Divine wasn't up to the standard of the other three, I think that's partly to do with the fact that Deities and thus divine magic is so heavily linked with setting.
Oh, and call Races of Destiny by its proper name: The Complete Illumian. How much of the book was wasted on them?! | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2290 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/05/2005 5:10 AM |
| I'd say go with the "Complete" series for certain as was already said the weakest of these was the complete Divine but even then it is still of use.
The "Races" books are of limited use you may not like the new races offered in the books. But I do like the Stones and Wild books they have some things of interest. Destiny I didn't buy it looked totally useless to me.
I love Draconomicon, Libris Mortis and Lords of Madness are cool too but all are limited of use. | |
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Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 7:19 AM |
| | I'm of the opinion that if you are not famliar with much since first edition, nor are your players. Then just go core books to start. See where the games take you. There is nothing lacking from the core books, and you don't want to overload on the extras. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 7:39 AM |
| One thing that is worth mentioning though, if you do go ahead and snap up the Completes, it may be worth photocopying the expanded skill use sections from all of them to use alongside the Core books, even if you're running Core only. The situations may not come up often, but there is some really interesting uses for skills in there that help cover odd situations. Consistency is a wonderful thing, and anything that helps maintain it gets my vote.
Complete Adventurer is especially good for that. | |
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tdaraa
Sneak
163 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 10:08 AM |
| | If you have a decent laptop and don't mind sacrificing having paper, you can purchase them as PDFs at drive thru for generally 50 to 75% the paper cost. Decide from that which ones you just have to have in paper and buy those as money allows over time. Net cost is higher per book you actually get, but it saves you the risk of buying one you only need 3 or 4 pages of at full price. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3139 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 11:17 AM |
| Definitely stick with the core books at first. Learn the game along with your players. When people get up around 3rd-4th level, start looking at the Complete Books. Look at them with your players, and if they see something they would like to play, you can start incorporating those particular books (and using them for your monsters and NPC's [}:)])
As things progress, you may want to get the other monster manuals (which have a lot of high-level critters, but a few low-level things) and the special books like Libris Mortis (for an undead-focus campaign), Lords of Madness (for a Mind Flayer or Aboleth focused game, for example) or Book of Vile Darkness (for a Conspiracy of Extraplanar Evil campaign).
I make my own rules for races, so I can't speak to the Races Books. You may want to save those for your next campaign.
But for now, just focus on the Core Books, and learn the game. You may also want to get the Basic Set to acclimate your players to 3.5. It's not a bad "training adventure," and it has minis!
Good Luck,
JIM
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BigBC
Sergeant
620 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 2:28 PM |
| | Another good one to think about is Unearthed Arcana. This provides some interesting things different from the core rules. We use traits and reputation and one of our players has even taken a flaw to enable his character to get an extra feat. It has some interesting possibilities at least. | |
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Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 6:28 PM |
| Thanks for all the input. I was hoping that someone would really justify my urge to snag the Draconomicon, etc., but no such luck. [)] If they ever put out a book on Lycanthropes, though, that's a no-brainer!
I had already been leaning towards the "Big 3" philosophy (and maybe a couple other books like a Monster Manual 2 or 3, or Fiend Folio to expand on creatures), and this has pretty much clenched it.
Now, I just need to relearn some game mechanics, put the finishing touches on the plots, and finish designing my own race of Anthropomorphics. That shouldn't take very long... | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 7:59 PM |
| Dude, the Draconomicon is freaking awesome, go buy it! :)
Seriously though, great book, and good stuff for all levels in there. Best feature is probably having pre-statted dragons at all age levels for all 10 MM dragon types. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 9:12 PM |
| Ummmm...no. The crunch in the Draconomicon is horrible, and shows only hatred for your players.
I mean, Rapidstrike? Metabreath feats? Using 3 feats from that book I can make a dragon of any kind a GUARANTEED TPK. Using only 1 I can up a creature's effective CR by 2 without changing the XP earned. Lower Spell Resistance is a horribly broken spell, Assay Resistance from CA is much better. Dragoncraft items are a stupid idea, magic items that work in an Antimagic Zone? I guess Dragons are the new Elves, they're just better than anyone else.
And besides, any book that includes a Dragonslayer PrC that DOESN'T REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE EVEN SEEN A DRAGON has issues.
That said, the fluff and art are fantastic. Loads of Ron Spencer and Todd Lockwood art makes it a real feast for the eyes. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/05/2005 9:52 PM |
| | Eh, while I agree the dragonslayer entry requirements probably need to be more difficult, the not-having-seen-one thing doesn't bother me in a game where a ranger could take favored enemy for all sorts of things it hasn't seen. | |
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