quote:

---

Originally posted by Count Dooku

quote:

---

what i miss most, honestly, were character "kits" and "specialty priests"

---

They still exist...they are called Prestige Classses. Are they really that much different from Kits? (I never used them in 2nd Ed)

I have to agree with IanB's statement that there are less rules in 3rd edition. Theres alot of rules for every thing you do in 3rd..but they all use the same mechanic of trying to roll high to beat a DC or AC.
1st and 2nd had very different mechanics for many different tasks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bshugg

the 3.x books have breathed new life in to the DnD game system. Players are crawling out of the woodwork to play around my area. I love how easy it is for new players to pick up, and how you can custom make your characters with feats, skills and a balanced multiclassing system. If handled properly even prestige classes can be cool. Handled properly meaning used sparingly as rewards for in game play.

Now for the problems. Well, I love the rules and game system, but hate the 340238408328 different feats,spells and prestige classes that every new product seems to be packed full of. Its fun to pick abilities that work together to make powerful characters, but its not fun to cherry pick from among 14 suppliments to make the ubercharacter. As DM I can handle it pretty well, but have seen many other campaigns get ruined by it. A mix group can have trouble when an experienced player knows how to make overwhelmingly strong characters and the inexperienced players don't. Thats my only real problem with the rules system besides one specific skill "concentration" and how it applies to combat casting.

The only other downer with the 3.5 system is WotC's lack of support for adventures. In general 95% of the adventures made by other companies are terrible. WotC has made some stinkers, but over all they are better than the competition in this area. Its something I find frustrating as I get older and have less and less time to work on my campaign.

---

quote:

---

The only other downer with the 3.5 system is WotC's lack of support for adventures. In general 95% of the adventures made by other companies are terrible. WotC has made some stinkers, but over all they are better than the competition in this area. Its something I find frustrating as I get older and have less and less time to work on my campaign.

---

quote:

---

Brad, you know, that's a hell of a good point about adventures. I agree, it's the biggest loss in the transition to the newer game. Modules used to be fantastic, in fact, if you ask older players what they remember most from the product, they'll probably say it's a module. Many "old-timer" conversations revolve around these classics, yet what do we have now? They've hand-walked DM's through just about every other possible option, why stop short at modules and full-blown adventures.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PatEllis15

[quote]
What ties all the old timers together? "Remember the first time you ran into that Ogre in the caves of Chaos?" "Yea, I picked up the energy weapon and blew my head off in the barrier peaks" "We just killed the efreet and kept the artificats. We were all happy till the fighter stuck blackrazor into the thief" "Of course I stuck my head into the mouth of that piece of art work on the wall... Who knew Acererak was so cruel?" "I'd have liked to whip the arse of Markessa for what she did to us" "Yea, we renovated the haunted manion and made it our base of operations, complete with secret harbor for our new ship"

And on and on.

3rd edition lacks this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sterling40

specialty priests and kits are, in most cases, COMPLETELY different than prestiege classes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ghendar
There is no possible way that I could agree with this more than I do.
I wonder though, is it possible for WoTC to come up with mythic adventures like those of old? I'd like them to.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Count Dooku

Yeah....Wizards excuse is that only 1 out of 5 players is a DM.
So books targeting DMs only sell to 1/5 of the D&D players.
They then go on to say only 25% of DMs use published moduals.

I say nuts to that...I want more adventures!!!

Meepo winning that monster competion (you know he will) is proof enough that players a craving and loving adventures.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PatEllis15

p.s. And I can't let this go by without again beating my drum for modules complete with now out of print DDM figures to be released in boxes teh size of a Starter, with double sided maps, etc. Sell it for $25.00 and you've got an instant hit

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Iksander

Pretty much. I was trying to figure out why my games lacked that certain something that I didn't seem to have to strive for when I ran 2e games. In my opinion, I think that the flexibility allowed by a lack of rules and the fact that players can't question you as readily, meant a much easier, and faster flow to a game. I, and the players, didn't have measured limits, so consciously or subconsciously, we didn't limit our characters or the story by the rules.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MerricB

Did you buy the three Eberron adventures? I did, and I'm running them now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lab Monkey

quote:

---

Originally posted by sterling40

specialty priests and kits are, in most cases, COMPLETELY different than prestiege classes.

---

Specialty priests are really replaced by the cleric domain selection.

Kits are now covered by skill and feat choice, multiclassing (which was a mess in 2e) or prestige class at mid-higher levels.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Testament

Specialty Priest of Elistraee...EASY.

Domains:
War + Moon

Build towards Sword Dancer, and grab the Elusive Target tactical feat en route. Ewwww...Cleric with Elusive Target, I shudder at the thought.

---

quote:

---

Unfortunately, every time Wizards puts out adventures they don't get bought.

Did you buy the three Eberron adventures? I did, and I'm running them now.

There's a Forgotten Realms adventure coming out later this year.

Cheers!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MerricB

Unfortunately, every time Wizards puts out adventures they don't get bought.

Did you buy the three Eberron adventures? I did, and I'm running them now.

There's a Forgotten Realms adventure coming out later this year.

Cheers!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Testament


You cannot balance in game power purely with RP, it never works. Just look at the Tremere in Vampire: The Masquerade, whose clan weakness was PURELY RP based*, while they had Thaumaturgy, an insanely powerful discipline. EVERY powergamer who ever touched V:TM went straight for the Tremere.

*Worse, a 2 point flaw gave them the equivalent of a 6 point merit!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Capatain Harlock:
Well, I disagree slightly here. You CAN balance game power with RP.....if you have a strong GM and good strong role-players. The problem is most gamers will not do the role-playing and most GMs will not enforce it. So all the munchkins ruin it for us role-players

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wynd of the North

The one thing that has bothered me in 3.x is the whole fighters know how to use almost every weapon ever made. In a system that has rules for everything they convienently ignore the fact that most weapons take years to learn how to use properly. 3.x in my opinion in this way and many others dumbed down the game. To get back to what most are talking about there being a rule for everything, it leads to power gaming. If you look at all the rules you can optimise the most efficient expenditure of points. It seems a game more disposed to character building than role playing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Testament


You cannot balance in game power purely with RP, it never works. Just look at the Tremere in Vampire: The Masquerade, whose clan weakness was PURELY RP based*, while they had Thaumaturgy, an insanely powerful discipline. EVERY powergamer who ever touched V:TM went straight for the Tremere.

*Worse, a 2 point flaw gave them the equivalent of a 6 point merit!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by calvar

I don't know about you guys, but a thing i dont like very much of 3.x ed. is the fact of the monk being one of the more basic classes, I just dont like to see Bruce Lee against King Arthur. Off course at the end it is your game and you can eliminate that class (unless you are playing Oriental Adventures, which is fun to play too). Just IMHO :)

---