The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
    
 | | 06/06/2005 11:58 AM |
| | recovered topic 4447 | | | |
|
The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 11:58 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by warty_nosed_goblin
... would alignment/class matter?
That is exactly what would matter. I would have a different response if i were playing each alignment/class combo ... and that is a lot of responses ... | | | |
|
CarrionCrawler
Underboss
1760 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 11:58 AM |
| | Adopt them! Kobold army! Yay! | |
Vindicated Night Below Champion of the Digestor!!! Knight of the OozesIcons called shot: Angry MobThe stink of rotten meat surrounds this multilegged creature with a segmented, 10-foot long body. Eight writhing tentacles protrude from its head, growing directly from below its clacking mandibles and tooth-filled maw. | |
|
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10802 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 06/06/2005 2:12 PM |
| My current character... a Barbarian would likely eat them. Later on he might realize that they were Kobold eggs, then agian he might not.
I'm realy tempted not to get a WWMPCD? as a T-shirt. Unfortunatly most of it involves hitting stuff till it stops moving.[:p] | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
|
2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 2:41 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by warty_nosed_goblin
so after the PCs have killed all the combatent kobolds, what do they do with the eggs ...
I'd say it'd be the perfect time to make an omlet.
Come to think of it, the unarmed women/children could be made to cook for you. Yeah, that'd do nicely. [}:)] | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
|
devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 2:50 PM |
| We went through a similar moral delima in one of the online games I'm in. We got attacked by an orc band, took the fight to them and managed to capture several. Had some creative challenges talking through that one since we had a paladin and a cleric both who had unjust feelings of simply killing them outright.
Alot would depend on how your player's play their PCs. If they're a bit noble and righteous have them simply spare their lives and drive them off to the netherlands. A bit on the fence turn them over to whatever passes as the local law - saves them from certain decisions even if they might not approve of what's done from there. Or if they're a bit evilish, sell the whole lot to slavers and bag some coin.
Lots of gray area you can exploit that forces them to decide but keeps the peace as well. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
|
Vimes
Warrior
259 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 2:59 PM |
| | Well.. the party I'm in now, would probably gather up the eggs, and head towards the nearest town. Find a mage, or something along those lines, and sell the eggs for a tidy profit. That or sell them to one of the pirates that inhabit the town we are currently visiting. | |
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=vimes
Succesful Trades: Camp0243 x2,Master Elminster,GeG,W33zrfan,Eldarion(in person),Pale Rider x16 (in person), ArchmagusXar x2,pan,griffrat,Kithmaker, Kyrin x2,Ckissee,raland x2,rav950,brez,simage,ivid5,cavedweller,Count Dooku x2,qillan_dvra x2,Quiet Gargoyle, berus316,bassman2972,Krush, Noghri,The_Duke
Pending Trade:jacksonm,shadroth | |
|
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 5:49 PM |
| | Most characters I have played would leave the eggs and the unarmed, because they are what we traditionally consider to be "good", meaning that they don't do evil, not even to those who are evil. my current character however would crush them all, as he is a champion of his race and eliminates any potential threat to his race. If kobolds attack those of his kind, then they are to be eliminated for the greater good of his people. he's the sort of heavy duty, extreme prejudice, chop off the thief's hands at about the neck kind of character that normally I would never play. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 5:56 PM |
| Have the cleric bless the eggs! They might end up being good kobolds that way. [)] That, or you have Holy Eggs of Antioch! Hand Grenades cost extra. As does the counting of three. Ahem.... [:D]
It really depends on how far you want to take it. Most of the time, I ignore these kinds of things as a DM. I know many players who don't do well with such moral questions, so I (or others) remove them to keep the game fun for everyone. | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
| |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 6:06 PM |
| Age old D&D question.
First, the DM has to decide on one VERY important element of his campaign setting: that is, is evil inherent, or learned?
If it is learned, then killing innocents is... well... killing innocents, and is therefore evil.
If it is inherent, then killing evil is... well... killing evil, and is therefore good, or at the very worst, neutral.
Second, he has to inform his players of this little tidbit of his world so that they know how to act accordingly. | |
Bite me. | |
|
adept
Warrior
336 Posts
| | 06/06/2005 8:18 PM |
| go egg some houses [}:)] and for the ones alive you can easily make them slaves [}:)] they have a brittle moral as it is...
What?
ok now that im done thinking about the evil campagin I am in I would say you should leave it up to your local town. Bring them there and let them decide their fate. That way you are acting lawful and cannot be tried for anything wrong.
quote:
If it is learned, then killing innocents is... well... killing innocents, and is therefore evil.
If it is inherent, then killing evil is... well... killing evil, and is therefore good, or at the very worst, neutral.
Second, he has to inform his players of this little tidbit of his world so that they know how to act accordingly
I agree with this. In the books I tend to think that any creature that says "ussually" can be changed if raised correctly(but still more inclinded to its orginal alignment). Anything that says "always" cannot be changed due to oaths, traditions, rituals, ect... | |
| |
|
Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 12:10 AM |
| My current PC is amoral and vengeful. His argument would be that the survivors (presumably including the elderly and stay-at-home mates of whichever gender) had had their chance to stop the raiding, and since they didn't, they can only be considered amoral. Hence, *stabbity*
He would also make the argument that the eggs are doomed anyway, as are most of the younglings, given that their caretakers and family are dead, and any that survive would be forever embittered against the populace in general and the party in specific, so why run the risk?
He would, of course, be most vehemently opposed by the LG psychic warrior and the sentimental rogue. In fact, I think he'd be opposed by most of the party. As usual. [:D] | |
I now have a Have/Want list updated with all my rares! Stop by to take a look!
Trade References: www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8560 | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 4:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Korhal_IV
My current PC is amoral and vengeful. His argument would be that the survivors (presumably including the elderly and stay-at-home mates of whichever gender) had had their chance to stop the raiding, and since they didn't, they can only be considered amoral. Hence, *stabbity*
How often does he stab himself? | |
Bite me. | |
|
Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 6:20 AM |
| Take the eggs to the Republican University and donate them to the Department of Arcanobiological Studies. Arrest the other Kobolds and turn them in to the authorities for relocation. Or sell them into slavery, since slavery is legal in both the Republic of Hydebarad and the Empire of Hetran. Kobolds are very popular choices for domestic servants.
Note that slavery is NOT considered evil in my homebrew, and there are considerable laws about the treatment of slaves. They actually have better protection than most citizens in the Republic, since harming another person's slave is considered a crime against the person of the slave, and a crime against the owner's property! | |
Support awesome games: Play Hecatomb!
8-Bit Chibi Goths forever!
Champion of Mephistopheles
"Sorry! I was tryin' to open these beans!"
My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11225 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 06/07/2005 7:16 AM |
| Leaning towards omelets myself.
Although you could take the eggs, hatch them, then brainwash/program the kobolds for a few years, send them back to their people, they take control of various kobold tribes and presto, Kobold army. | |
Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 7:24 AM |
| Let's not forget that in one of those eggs could be a kobold who grows up to be a fearsome CG kobold ranger, wirleding dual sickles and followed by his magical black housecat.
Actually I think I want to play this character. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 06/07/2005 9:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
Let's not forget that in one of those eggs could be a kobold who grows up to be a fearsome CG kobold ranger, wirleding dual sickles and followed by his magical black housecat.
Actually I think I want to play this character.
LoL! Can I be in that campaign? [)]
As for the moral dilemma if a PC is good, murder is never an option, especially of children and babies. Of course all those teenage kobold brats still have tender meat! Hmmmmmmmm Barbeque! [}:)] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11225 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 06/07/2005 9:20 AM |
| | I'm of the opinion that characters of good alignment should not and would not kill helpless noncombatants, even if they are evil. | |
Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 9:57 AM |
| In Manyhavens, humnanoids such as goblinoids and gnolls are "kill on sight." The only exceptions are kobolds and orcs. When humans came to Manyhavens, the demihumans made them agree to spare kobolds and orcs. Something about a "great debt." [Kobolds and Orcs actually helped the demihumans in the last Great War vs. Evil, i.e., the human worhippers of Kali.] Naturally, frictions occurred between kobolds and orcs, but the humans negotiated treaties. Sparing of noncombatants are part of those treaties.
Having said that, I rarely put noncombatants in my dungeons. I don't want to put my players through that choice. 1) It's practically cliche, and I'd rather Do Other Things; 2) It only leads to intraparty strife, which is Not Fun; 3) It causes Angst, and since my players are all grown-ups who have experienced Life, we don't find Angst fun or particularly broadening.
Unrealistic? Maybe. But -- how do I put this? -- I don't care. The three reasons above trump any motivation for verite.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
|
Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| |
B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 8:04 PM |
| Hmm...like Sid, my current pc would yell "EXTERMINATE!" a bunch of times and launch hot death into their midst....but that's probably not the best solution. If the "adventure" is finished I think that I would reccomend that the kobolds be taken to town, not as hostages or slaves, but as new inhabitants who could help the town recover from the raids and learn a new way of life.
Alternatively, I would try to relocate them somehow. I just have issues with walking away from children and infants that are alone in the wild. That is just screaming for further hostilities.....man I take this too seriously [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
| |
|
Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9034 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/07/2005 8:08 PM |
| This is just our playgroup, but I had to ask our DM almost exactly the same thing, except with orcs. "Would the paladin in our group allow us to slaughter the moms and children?" He gave us the go, citing that they were inherently evil, but he said that it had to be a quick and clean death - obviously.
Of course, as one person mentioned above, other DM's will feel that evil is learned, and not inherent, thus disallowing the above. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
consumptive_desire
Sneak
67 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 9:25 PM |
| It depends entirely on your stance on if you believe people are inherently good / evil or become that way via cultural environment and upbringing. Personally, if you think they are evil / are destined to be so, kill them in a clinical and non-cruel manner.
My current character, a Thri-Kreen monk / Fist of Zuoken, would likely eat the eggs and take the children to the monastery where he was trained. | |
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem, see a fine picture and if it were possible to speak a few reasonable words."
-Johan Wolfgang von Goethe
-------------------------
"There are few things in this world less rewarding than throwing up and having nothing to show for it."
-Eric D. Jones
| |
|
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 9:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
Let's not forget that in one of those eggs could be a kobold who grows up to be a fearsome CG kobold ranger, wirleding dual sickles and followed by his magical black housecat.
Actually I think I want to play this character.
I think he should be named G'drizzle.
of course he'll have to adventuR with a goblin and that goblin's adopted human daughter, and an orcish barbarian.
Of course they will all need goatees, even the human daughter of the goblin. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 06/07/2005 9:39 PM |
| | Nice. Too much trek for you [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
| |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 06/08/2005 12:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
Let's not forget that in one of those eggs could be a kobold who grows up to be a fearsome CG kobold ranger, wirleding dual sickles and followed by his magical black housecat.
Actually I think I want to play this character.
I think he should be named G'drizzle.
of course he'll have to adventuR with a goblin and that goblin's adopted human daughter, and an orcish barbarian.
Of course they will all need goatees, even the human daughter of the goblin.
Now in that light I'd say stomp the little suckers, who cares about right and wrong, another RA Salvatore spinoff is to much to bear.
Of course I straight out said that no one in my campaign is allowed to play a dark elf, and if they do, ranger is out. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
|
Wynd of the North
Warrior
310 Posts
| | 06/08/2005 9:06 PM |
| | When you find the source of locusts do you spare the larva? Kobolds from a raiding tribe should be treated with no greater respect or note. I have never met a Kobold worth my spit and I can't imagine any would grow to suprise me. Even if they would have they cannot now for their pathetic parasite providers are now dead, they will soon follow. We can kill them or leave them to starve it matters not to me. I certainly won't be carrying the eggs anywhere. - Roahin Dhalm | |
Patience is a virtue and ignorance is bliss thus the world is full of stupid people waiting | |
|
B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 06/08/2005 9:42 PM |
| | Well....the main difference between kobolds and locusts is the fact that locusts aren't self aware. | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
| |
|
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 06/08/2005 10:05 PM |
| What's funny is the difference free choice makes. Locusts have no free choice, they react the only way they can, because they are not "self-aware" and so we have no guilt in killing the larvae. Kobolds have the choice to be or not act in a way we would consider evil. And since they can choose not to, it would be wrong to kill the young. In short we are saying that it is wrong to kill those capable of evil, but ok to kill those that are incapable of evil. "From a certain point of view" that is.
I actually do not agree with myself here, at least not entirely. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 06/08/2005 10:49 PM |
| | Do the sins of the fathers pass to their sons? Leave them alone, if they survive, they will no doubt give future adventurers a chance to exercise their sword-arms. - The Falcon, Battlemage | |
Email Offers | Trade History
Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 06/09/2005 5:42 PM |
| My current PCs would probably not even notice the eggs, one of them misses everything, the other one is paranoid, and would be convinced that a nearby statue is going to turn into a drestachan and kil them all.
(I can't wait to spring a roper on them, hehehehe, that should put the elf into histerics.[}:)]) | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
|
arbados
Underboss
1407 Posts
New York, USA
| | 06/11/2005 12:00 AM |
| | Always a tough call, but I give my players the benefit of the doubt in letting them destroy the eggs and young. One character I had was warring with orcs for hundreds of years (he was an elf). When his people finally got a chance to take out the orc civilization once and for all they decided that all the young had to die as well. It was a tough call, but I could underrstand the point. They felt that if these young were allowed to live that the wars would just come to fruition again in 10 or so years. If it was a paladin or good cleric I may have reacted differently. | |
Give me more MIND FLAYERS! | |
|
rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 06/13/2005 9:30 AM |
| Yep...tough call, and one that can define the campaign. Several years ago, we ran into the same dilemma with goblin children. My character at the time was an elf soul in a goblin body (long story). He absolutely hated goblins (because in reality he hated himself - once again, long story). Another party member was a Ranger with favored enemy - goblinoids. So, the two of us slaughtered the goblins and the rest of the party refused. Everyone stayed true to their character concept, and it made for some great roleplaying later.
There were all kinds of other cool things in that campaign, but its still remembered as the one where we massacred the goblin children. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
Have/Want List
Reference thread
Avatar Thread
| |
|
Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 06/13/2005 10:27 AM |
| ((Ooops, noticed I posted this in the wrong message thread))
The problem with me for this question is I have to think "Okay, which PC"...if it was Barrelbreak (my battlerager (well, as close as you were allowed in LC)) and his skunks, he would be chopping away singing "I met a kobold one day, and then I killed him and his sisters and his cousins and his aunts and his....(etc, etc, etc)" while my half-drow priestess of Denier/Monk/Loremaster would probably adopt them and raise them as priests and teach them to read and write. Then we have Lord Harvinder Rasquell Grimm who would probably let his loiness have dinner. And I could go on and on and on...
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
| |
|