Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
    
 | | 06/28/2005 1:41 PM |
| | recovered topic 5280 | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 1:41 PM |
| Mongoose.
Definatley need to be a mongoose. Or a squirrel. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 1:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
Mongoose.
Definatley need to be a mongoose. Or a squirrel.
now why would "I" want to be a mongoose or squirrel? [:)] | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 2:12 PM |
| Not sure that I can help you,but thought I'd throw out a great memory from First edition....
I was playing a higher level spell caster when we started G1, steading of the Hill Giant Chief.
My group was not to intelligent, and we got into trouble. We were escaping via a hole the ceiling (to vent a fire pit...), when one of the giants used a ladder to start climbing up, all the other giants crowded around waiting their turn to climb after us.
I used Polymorph other to turn the Hill Giant into a Blue Whale. Poor guy, he failed his save, though he did retain his "Hill Giant intelligence". He flopped around on the floor collapsing teh great hall...
As we escaped on my magic carpet, I did the same thing to one of the wolves in the courtyard... Another blue whale, so big that he flopped around bursting apart the steading in the front as well....
Boy was the DM pissed....
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:02 PM |
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A Frog for your opponent????
Or a Cat for yourself.[:D]
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"HA! Activate take 10 and you cant hit me."
"Once I start, I will not flater."
"BLOOD make the grass grow!" | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:31 PM |
| A troll, perhaps? Don't recall off the top of my head how many of its abilities convert.
Maybe the best combat creature I know of is a Xorn. Hard to hit (AC24, +14 from natural armor), good attack damage (4d6+3). It has damage reduction and a bunch of resistances, but, again, I don't know how many of these come through with polymorph.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 8:23 PM |
| Don't have my books handy but I guess it would depend on the situation you found yourself in...
Up high - giant hawk/owl
Underground - any sort of burrowing critter
Need to be small - pixie
Need to be big - Firbolg (I think, not sure on the HD)
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You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 10:03 PM |
| For sheer combat power, the Hags are hard to top.
Remember that you only gain extraordinary attack forms, no other qualities. So no senses, or regeneration or the like. Also remember that you can only go one size category in either direction. | |
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 10:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
Also remember that you can only go one size category in either direction.
where is that limit? (alter self spell?) I did not see a size limit other then not going too small. | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 06/29/2005 9:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by spikegif
quote:
Originally posted by Testament
Also remember that you can only go one size category in either direction.
where is that limit? (alter self spell?) I did not see a size limit other then not going too small.
Yes. From the SRD entry on Alter Self: You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 06/29/2005 1:30 PM |
| it really depends on who the target is.
If you're targeting a melee hitter (i.e. battle cleric, fighter)
Green hag is the way to go. requires caster and target to have 9 HD
19 str 12 dex 12 con. Medium sized +11 nat armor bonus. Great for a tank fighter, puts AC into the near unhittable range for your sword and board and full plate fighter.
Stone Giant also works well, but required 14 HD.
If you're targeting a wizard to go into combat
Troll- requires 7HD, very good con and str scores, decent natural armor.
Grey Render - requires 10HD, similar con and str as troll, slightly better attacks and moderately better natual armor.
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Sanity is a one trick pony, my friend, . . .but when you're good and crazy the sky is the limit.
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=mrfurious
braman@che.utexas.edu | |
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 06/29/2005 2:01 PM |
| | Could I "enlarge person" (large size) then "polymorph" into a hydra? (huge) | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 06/29/2005 4:19 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by spikegif
Could I "enlarge person" (large size) then "polymorph" into a hydra? (huge)
IIRC the various discussions and interpretations I've seen (this may even be covered in the FAQ), when you polymorph into something other than a person the enlarge fails because you're no longer a person.
YMMV, obviously.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 06/30/2005 12:42 AM |
| | Polymorph into Napolean Dynamite, then open up with your Bo Staff. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/30/2005 12:58 AM |
| | I believe the Xorn is an illegal polymorph form, as it is an outsider. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 06/30/2005 2:00 AM |
| | Once you have the HD necessary, nothing beats the Giants. Roper is another good form, the tendrils are awesome for crippling an enemy beater, or rendering enemy casters helpless. | |
Support awesome games: Play Hecatomb!
8-Bit Chibi Goths forever!
Champion of Mephistopheles
"Sorry! I was tryin' to open these beans!"
My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
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megamadrat
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 06/30/2005 6:35 AM |
| | if you are looking for good ambush material, a generic animal is often quite good, who would expect the party's spare horse to suddenly race forward and drop an energy burst or quill blast? | |
Einstein would turn in his grave;
God does play dice, and the dice are loaded!
My left nipple is in fact a horcrux.
Do not tweak the horcrux, it belongs to the Dark Lord! | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 07/01/2005 9:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I believe the Xorn is an illegal polymorph form, as it is an outsider.
I asked my friend (who plays the Wizard in question) how he does this. Turns out he's a Tiefling, and he's using Alter Self. Very effective at lower (up to sixth) levels.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 07/02/2005 5:21 AM |
| If you become a Hydra, do you get all those attacks? Regeneration?
Sorry, I know slightly off topic, but I'm not to familiar with this spell and my party wiz is starting to look interested. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Lady-Bast
Warrior
242 Posts
Central Illinois
| | 07/02/2005 3:20 PM |
| | Hello... a question very close to my heart. I was playing a red wizard in a faerun campaign. With the limitations of the polymorph spell, a great thing to change into is a Gargoyle. Good strength, good dexterity and a great constitution. Can fly and can talk, therefore you can still cast spells. A really great option for the spell. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 07/03/2005 1:25 AM |
| Having also played a wizard with polymorph... I can make a couple of suggestions. Personally my wizard never lowered himself to engage in hand to hand combat, that is what fighters are for. I preffered things that allowed me to cast spells and stay out of the way versus go up and brawl. With that in mind, a gargoyle is a great suggestion, another thing that does not have great defense but is also overlooked is a harpy.
If for some reason you decide that you do want to go and rip someone's arms off a Troll is probably your best choice of 8HD or less.
If you are facing off with a bunch of fighters and want to scare them... a rust monster causes most armored men to flee in terror.
Oh a Hydra is not allowed because of the size... but you do not gain the extraordinary special abilities of the form such as fast healing or regeneration.
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"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 10:49 AM |
| Whoa... dude, this is getting confusing.
First off:
People are getting alter self and polymorph confused it seems.
Alter self alters your form to a form of the same type and can only be within one size category.
Polymorph doesn't care what your size or type is, you merely change into the form.
That said, I like the Troll form [:P] | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 2:48 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kiirnodel
Whoa... dude, this is getting confusing.
First off:
People are getting alter self and polymorph confused it seems.
Alter self alters your form to a form of the same type and can only be within one size category.
Polymorph doesn't care what your size or type is, you merely change into the form.
That said, I like the Troll form [:P]
I agree for the most part. But YMMV regarding the size limitation. Some DMs interpret the wording of the Polymorph spell to mean that, other than the "Fine" limitation, you're still limited to the restrictions imposed by Alter Self (most of the judges I've played with, in fact, the creatures).
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/11/2005 3:16 PM |
| | I interpreted it as identical to Alter Self, except as noted. I was under the assumption that you were limited to 1 size category larger. Does anyone know if there is errata on this? | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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megamadrat
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 4:31 PM |
| | having gone and looked just about everywhere for errata on the spell, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that the spell does allow you to change into a creature with more than 2 size catagories difference with the only exception being no smaller than fine | |
Einstein would turn in his grave;
God does play dice, and the dice are loaded!
My left nipple is in fact a horcrux.
Do not tweak the horcrux, it belongs to the Dark Lord! | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 6:49 PM |
| | I've had good luck with the treant as an early polymorph form - solid AC, good damage, and you have 15 foot reach for touch spells. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 7:18 PM |
| Polymorph just says no form smaller than fine, that's all. It says it functions like alter self however, so one could assume that, but there aren't a ton of forms that are 15 HD that are not...say huge and up, there are some, but most of the big hit die stuff of the spectrum get out of reach.
However, do we have a clarification? I'd really like it if it was cleared up.
edit: Check out the psionic power 'metamorphosis' basically a spelled out polymorph. | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 07/11/2005 9:01 PM |
| No, don't check out Metamorphosis, it functions like a 3.0 Polymorph. For starters, it allows objects.
Polymorph is as Alter self, except that it gives you ability scores and extraordinary attack forms as well as Gross physical qualities. Thus, the size limitation from Alter Self stands. | |
Support awesome games: Play Hecatomb!
8-Bit Chibi Goths forever!
Champion of Mephistopheles
"Sorry! I was tryin' to open these beans!"
My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 07/12/2005 5:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
No, don't check out Metamorphosis, it functions like a 3.0 Polymorph. For starters, it allows objects.
Polymorph is as Alter self, except that it gives you ability scores and extraordinary attack forms as well as Gross physical qualities. Thus, the size limitation from Alter Self stands.
I guess its how the viewer looks at it, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying thats how I interpreted it. Likewise why would the psion get a better version of polymorph at the same level? | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 07/12/2005 8:56 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by megamadrat
having gone and looked just about everywhere for errata on the spell, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that the spell does allow you to change into a creature with more than 2 size catagories difference with the only exception being no smaller than fine
It's bad form to post the results of your research without listing at least some of the evidence which led you to that conclusion. Just an FYI...simply saying so don't make it so. I'd be interested in what you found.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
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megamadrat
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 07/12/2005 5:57 PM |
| having shown Testament what i had found, we decided it does not count because it is a Skip Williams article. The example i had found that had led me to those conclusions was of a (small) halfling polymorphing into a (Large) Brown bear
I have just gone looking even harder and there is nothing more out there one way or another as far as i can find to say one way or the other. All the other examples ever used by pretty much everyone else involve only 1 size shift | |
Einstein would turn in his grave;
God does play dice, and the dice are loaded!
My left nipple is in fact a horcrux.
Do not tweak the horcrux, it belongs to the Dark Lord! | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 07/12/2005 6:31 PM |
| | It would be sort of odd if the polymorph spell added the language about no forms smaller than Fine if it wasn't ditching the alter self restrictions on size. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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delguidance
Sergeant
394 Posts
| | 07/14/2005 12:48 AM |
| My gaming group never used the one size limit.
I had a good time polymorphing into a Girallon on occasion. Just remember your hit points don't change. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 07/14/2005 1:50 AM |
| Actually, your HPs do change. You get the Con of the form that you change into, and that can change your HP big time.
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"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 10/11/2005 5:44 PM |
| Just an update.
Ideas for 10 HD or less? | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 10/12/2005 1:39 AM |
| | Annis Hag and Green Hag. They really take some beating, especially considering the natural armour boost and the fact that they're both still humanoids. | |
Support awesome games: Play Hecatomb!
8-Bit Chibi Goths forever!
Champion of Mephistopheles
"Sorry! I was tryin' to open these beans!"
My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 10/12/2005 11:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
Annis Hag and Green Hag. They really take some beating, especially considering the natural armour boost and the fact that they're both still humanoids.
is the annis hag in the MM 1? | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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