| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
    
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
 | | 07/29/2005 6:58 AM |
| | recovered topic 6650 | |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 07/29/2005 6:58 AM |
| From Merric's article
quote:
However, in this area, the needs of players - to have distinctive characters - clashes with the needs of DMs - to have simple stats to create. How this can be resolved is one of biggest challenges facing D&D. The game needs DMs for it to succeed, and if the job is too hard for the DMs, then the game has a problem.
Man, this is a HUGE peeve of mine. Making NPCs with many class levels is not only time consuming but a tremendous pain in the *ss. I just don't have the patience for it.
Sample stat blocks are a step in the right direction. I hope they take more steps. | |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Zardnaar
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 7:23 AM |
| I would hope 2008 at the minimum for 4th ed. Imagine the uproar.
1st ed mid 70's-89
2nd ed 89-2000
3.0 2000-2003
3.5 2003-2008-2010???
If WoTC are running out of ideas for sourcebooks (lets face it a few have been less than spectacular) 4.0 seems more likely. I think they've been printing the books to fast- look at the glut of books in just over 2 years of 3.5. 2nd ed at eat took a few years to saturate us with the Complete book series of races and class's. Wouldn't mind a 3.5 complete epic book though. | |
Trades: dj-chuckles (complete)
Sales: Kestral.ca
Bad Trade: Chaotic Good | |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 07/29/2005 7:49 AM |
| Look...improving upon somethign should never be discouraged.
If something needs fixing it should be fixed.
But my issue is that I pretty much buy every D&D book WotC spitts out. So when a 4th edition comes out..I have an entire bookshelf of worthless books. Thats alot of money down the toilet...and I really doubt WotC is gonna give me any kind of company credit for being such a good supporter of their product.
I know I have no one to blame but myself for buying all the Races of books and all the Forgotten Realms books (heck even Oriental Adventures and Ghostwalk). But still thats not really a good way to reward a valued customer.
And none of these books are going to be valuable later when 4th edition comes out. I still own 1st and 2nd edition moduals because they can be converted. Unfortunatly 3rd edition was obsessed with not releasing adventures and just comming out with books full of crunch...and books full of crunch is what will be come useless when a new system comes out (And NO...its not worth all the time you need to put in to convert it yourself).
Lets also talk about something near and dear to all of us on these boards...miniatures. What if 4th edition changes the facing rules like they did from 3.0 to 3.5? If facing and monster sizes was changed then the thousands you spent on minis becomes worthless for D&D. I dont even want to think of that prospect.
If 4th edition comes out in 2010 I would think WotC is moving to fast. It would be to soon IMO. And Im getting that creepy feeling it will be sooner than that.
I am really contemplating hanging up the towel if 4th edition comes out. I cant bear to think of starting my D&D collection over....again.
3.0 and 3.5 has released more stuff in the forms of books, Dragon and Dungeon magazine, and 3rd party companys that anyone can play in a lifetime....so if I stay with 3rd edition Im not worried about running out of adventure to play. Thats what would make Me not stepping foward into 4th editon easer.
What will make it hard to deal with is how I would have to stop my subscription to Dragon and Dungeon and I will no longer have books to look foward to. And if I ever wish to show my children D&D I would teach them an outdated system...and what good would that do them?
Its a really hard dilemma...thats why WotC needs to wait a long time....For the sake of people like me....and Im sure most of you. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 07/29/2005 8:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Look...improving upon somethign should never be discouraged.
If something needs fixing it should be fixed.
But my issue is that I pretty much buy every D&D book WotC spitts out. So when a 4th edition comes out..I have an entire bookshelf of worthless books. Thats alot of money down the toilet...and I really doubt WotC is gonna give me any kind of company credit for being such a good supporter of their product.
I know I have no one to blame but myself for buying all the Races of books and all the Forgotten Realms books (heck even Oriental Adventures and Ghostwalk). But still thats not really a good way to reward a valued customer.
Count, you and I disagree with some stuff but we are definitely on the same page here. If WoTC is smart, they will make 4th ED compatible with all the exisiting 3.5 books. Maybe release conversion documents like they did when they went from 3.0 to 3.5
I agree with Merric in that 4th won't be a radical departure from the mechanics of 3rd, but if they're smart, they will be compatible with each other. | |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 9:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zardnaar
I would hope 2008 at the minimum for 4th ed. Imagine the uproar.
1st ed mid 70's-89
2nd ed 89-2000
3.0 2000-2003
3.5 2003-2008-2010???
If WoTC are running out of ideas for sourcebooks (lets face it a few have been less than spectacular) 4.0 seems more likely. I think they've been printing the books to fast- look at the glut of books in just over 2 years of 3.5. 2nd ed at eat took a few years to saturate us with the Complete book series of races and class's. Wouldn't mind a 3.5 complete epic book though.
Well, the thing is, they are already telling the owners/creators of other game worlds/campaigns that they are coming out with 4e in2007. They are also telling those people that 4e will NOT be OGL/OGC.
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
| |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 07/29/2005 9:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Well, the thing is, they are already telling the owners/creators of other game worlds/campaigns that they are coming out with 4e in2007. They are also telling those people that 4e will NOT be OGL/OGC.
Dan Cooper
Can you give any evidence of that? I've seen nothing of that sort on ENworld and I'd be very surprised if that could be kept quiet. | |
Merric Blackman
| |
| 
Lab Monkey
Commander
4131 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 9:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Well, the thing is, they are already telling the owners/creators of other game worlds/campaigns that they are coming out with 4e in2007. They are also telling those people that 4e will NOT be OGL/OGC.
Dan Cooper
ACK! This would be my worst nightmare. Yes, please let us know where this information comes from. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4458 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 10:39 AM |
| quote:
ACK! This would be my worst nightmare.
Why?
If 4e IS OGL, then things move forward and evolve. If 4e is NOT OGL, then WotC simply takes the shotgun and blows there foot/face off.
As I understand it (Yes, I may be wrong) they cannot take back the the OGL. If WotC moves forward with a new system that is not OGL, then all the current OGL players clap with delite at all the (now) Grognards who are not willing to jump to a new edition so soon, and keep publising material for the 3.5 iteration of the OGL.
If you don't want to jump to 4e, you simply keep buying OGL stuff, and if WotC isn't making generic fantasy for the OGL, then other D20 publishers will leap to fill the vacuum.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
kestrel.ca
Underboss
1669 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 10:59 AM |
| 2007, heck even 2010 is probably too soon for me for a new edition. When 2e came out, I quit playing. I had all (or most) of the 1e books, and I wasn't interested in learning a new system. I didn't play for over a decade. It's quite possible that the same would happen with a 4e if it's not mostly compatible with 3.x.
| |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 91 || Pending Trades: 0 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/29/2005 12:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15:
Why?
If 4e IS OGL, then things move forward and evolve. If 4e is NOT OGL, then WotC simply takes the shotgun and blows there foot/face off.
As I understand it (Yes, I may be wrong) they cannot take back the the OGL. If WotC moves forward with a new system that is not OGL, then all the current OGL players clap with delite at all the (now) Grognards who are not willing to jump to a new edition so soon, and keep publising material for the 3.5 iteration of the OGL.
If you don't want to jump to 4e, you simply keep buying OGL stuff, and if WotC isn't making generic fantasy for the OGL, then other D20 publishers will leap to fill the vacuum.
Pat E
The OGL cannot be withdrawn. As for everything else you said, all I can say is 'What he said' I think you hit nail squarely on the head. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 4:49 PM |
| I really hate the sort of mentality that prevents progress.
Why do you care if they change the system? Your books aren't worthless unless YOU change to the new system. They're still perfectly functional for 3.5.
Screw compatibility. If it was a choice between being compatible to 3.5 and having a much better system, I'd choose the much better system 10 out of 10 times.
It's utterly ridiculous to whine about a change in system. Don't like, don't buy it. | |
Bite me. | |
|
IHawk
Underboss
1047 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 07/29/2005 5:28 PM |
| I am Torn on the issue completely.
I played 1st, second ed and had lots of fun. I like 3.0 & 3.5 way
more than the previous eds...and it took 3.0 to convince my wife to play...thac0 single handedly kept her from playing. So on one side, progress is great.
On the other hand, if the next ed is incompatible with current books, that will suck. It was not enitrely easy even to convert printed material from 3.0 to 3.5. That is a bunch of books to loose use of. I think we will have to wait and see the actual product before we can truely pass judgement.
mark kelly - Ihawk | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
IHawk's Have/Want List | IHawk's Trade List | Completed Trades - 214 | Pending Trades - 0
| |
| 
Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 5:38 PM |
| I agree with a lot of what's been said. I still feel it's too soon as, well, I still feel I've got a lot of exploring to do with 3.5 before I'm ready to be done with it. I suppose we'll see where it all ends up (hopefully with WotC still putting out books that I can use with my current game).
As far as the quality of books, the sad thing is I finally feel like they're getting better. The new books have a lot of good fluff in 'em for me.
As a random aside, there's an Eberron MMORPG coming out in about a year or so. I can't imagine it coming out in 2006 with 3.5 rules only to have them change the system in a year, it'd be bad marketing.
-Diomedes | |
| |
|
yack
Commander
3128 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 07/29/2005 8:12 PM |
| I'm not saying I can't handle change...but yes I agree this is waaay too soon! I was like kestrel.ca I skipped 2nd edition and went from 1st to 3 and 3.5
Now if 4th edition was a easy transfer from 3.5 it wouldn't be too bad but as Count Dooku stated if it isn't, its too much of a DMs nightmare to convert and he's right!
Iksander its not so we hate change its just that there is such great material in 3.5 that it would be a shame to not be able too use it when 4th edition comes out. (instead sitting on the shelve collecting dust cause its a total pain too convert).
Like the old saying if it ain't broken why fix it!(or better yet why so soon)
| |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 8:56 PM |
| Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh. It's just that this kind of thinking is prevalent not only in RPG's, but in everyday life. People seem to be opposed to progress just for the sake of it.
I just don't understand why you would be against it just because it's incompatible. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. It's like saying, "I hate GURPS, because it's incompatible with D&D!"
If GURPS comes out with a 5th edition, and you like 3.5... why do you care? The same should go for D&D. If WotC comes out with a 4th edition but you like 3.5... just don't buy it. Nobody, anywhere, is making you buy anything. And if you LIKE the new edition, well guess what, you're going to have to pay for it, because you can't get something for nothing. That's just the way the world works, people.
So why does it have to be compatible? What need does it serve? You spent $5,000 on 3.5 books, so keep playing 3.5. There is no NEED to upgrade. And if you do upgrade, then it IS an upgrade.
If anything, you should be disappointed that it IS compatible, 'cause then what you're really doing is paying for something only slightly improved. All that money again for just a bit of an improvement seems a waste to me. Better to spend it all on something much better, like an entirely new system.
People who stifle progress really bug me. | |
Bite me. | |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 07/29/2005 9:05 PM |
| quote:
If GURPS comes out with a 5th edition, and you like 3.5... why do you care? The same should go for D&D. If WotC comes out with a 4th edition but you like 3.5... just don't buy it.
Difference is when GURPS makes a 5th edition...WotC will still produce 3.5 D&D product.
If 4th edition comes out....3.5 will cease.
Yes I can continue to play 3.5...but there will be no new product released and it will become consistantly harder to find new players because I'd be the old coot stuck in 3.5
Plus..yeah 3.0 had flaws...3.5 has some flaws to....But its a really great system. There si no need for a revisioned 4th edition.
Its would be progess..but it would be progress for the sake of earning money..not progress to truly improve something.
Dont get me wrong...progress is good sometimes. I owned hundreds of VHS tapes but embraced DVD and replaced all my movies.
I love that George Lucas does his best to keep old SW movies up to date as FX technology progresses.
But for D&D...the system was just updated what feels like a year or to ago...we dont need progress to move that fast.
| |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
|
yack
Commander
3128 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 07/29/2005 10:06 PM |
| Perfectly said...
Plus fine we can still play 3.5 after 4 is released but too be totally honest how much new stuff that comes out will be 3.5???
Probably none after version 4(books,dungeon mag and so forth)everything will upgrade,and we love their products so too get new material we will have to upgrade too.
| |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 07/29/2005 11:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
If 4th edition comes out....3.5 will cease.
So?
So 3.5 ceases. Big deal. That doesn't make your uber collection of 3.5 materials redundant. You can still happily play 3.5.
And if you find you'd rather be playing 4, then of course you have to buy everything new. Why would you expect something for nothing?
And 3.5 could definitely see some improvements in a LOT of areas. | |
Bite me. | |
|
Pale Rider
Underboss
1001 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 07/30/2005 7:53 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by yack
Perfectly said...
Plus fine we can still play 3.5 after 4 is released but too be totally honest how much new stuff that comes out will be 3.5???
Probably none after version 4(books,dungeon mag and so forth)everything will upgrade,and we love their products so too get new material we will have to upgrade too.
Actually I would be surprised if all publishing companies stop producing 3.5 material. They can still publish under the OGL regardless of which system WotC currently promotes. This is especailly true if 4E isn't OGL. As for Dungeon mag I still use my 1E (and the even the occasional Basic D&D) adventures. Dungeon has always been about the plot, places and NPCs for me so i would continue to but it even if they go to 6E.
| |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
|
Lady-Bast
Warrior
242 Posts
Central Illinois
| | 07/30/2005 11:52 AM |
| My group has gotten frustrated with the glut of books and the impending doom, I mean impending release of fourth addition. I am also one of those that likes to buy books. It means that between the books and minis, My husband and I need to make 2-3 trips in when we game somewhere other than here. Our group has gotten so frustrated that we dropped one of our two games and started playing a different system. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It is fun not to know everything with just a brief description of the monster. It is new and refreshing and alot easier on my husband's poor back. We are still playing the campaign that has been running for a little over 5 years, but it is nice to do something different.
| |
 My Family Business http://www.likelylotusblue.com/
Maxminis Completed Transactions (29)
LDFF, IHawk (x2), Lab Monkey, simage, Cthulhufnord, Nixlord, ares71, vash9284, thom, kestrel.ca, Aswiercz (x2), Drakkengi, Corim Danex, pappabear5, phreak_storm, Stabmastaarson, Dungeon2004, kyrin, Mama Cass, Iyceman, LordStorm, Venport, QuietGargoyle, Chad the DragonLordofAiur (x2), Oryan77, blackthorne
| |
|
megamadrat
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 07/30/2005 12:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lady-Bast
My group has gotten frustrated with the glut of books and the impending doom, I mean impending release of fourth addition.
IMPENDING DOOM! Zim is baaack! beware the wrath of zim!
It must be Zim in control of WotC marketing, planning his world domination through the destruction of gamer brai | |
Einstein would turn in his grave;
God does play dice, and the dice are loaded!
My left nipple is in fact a horcrux.
Do not tweak the horcrux, it belongs to the Dark Lord! | |
|
yack
Commander
3128 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 07/30/2005 12:41 PM |
| Ok after a goodnight sleep..
I understand what you guys are saying, and I'll be honest I will take a glance at 4th edition when it comes out. But I just think its too soon, as stated above it been what 2-3 years and we are already talking about changing editions.(whats so wrong with 3.5 that they want to upgrade so soon?)
And no they are not making me change it is my own choice.I know that, I buy all the FR books cause I use alot of it in my game.
I guess we will have to wait and see, then again its not for another 3 years or so. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 07/30/2005 12:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Difference is when GURPS makes a 5th edition...WotC will still produce 3.5 D&D product.
If 4th edition comes out....3.5 will cease.
Yes I can continue to play 3.5...but there will be no new product released and it will become consistantly harder to find new players because I'd be the old coot stuck in 3.5
I am an old coot stuck in 1E/2E/Custom rules who has a bunch of old coot players who have no desire to even read anything 3E, much less 3.5; I do have several 3E and 3.5E books but I use them as reference to improve on our game. The only thing we adapted from 3E to our old coot's game is the d20 rules of combat.
It has been said, you don't HAVE to buy anything and you can always adapt your game or invent your own stuff. | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
|
Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 07/30/2005 1:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Well, the thing is, they are already telling the owners/creators of other game worlds/campaigns that they are coming out with 4e in2007. They are also telling those people that 4e will NOT be OGL/OGC.
Dan Cooper
ACK! This would be my worst nightmare. Yes, please let us know where this information comes from.
Source: Well, I will not give the name out, but he is the owner of a company that puts out a campaign world for D&D and runs probably the most popular non-WotC based RPGA campaigns.
Dan Cooper | |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
| |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 07/30/2005 5:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Difference is when GURPS makes a 5th edition...WotC will still produce 3.5 D&D product.
If 4th edition comes out....3.5 will cease.
Yes I can continue to play 3.5...but there will be no new product released and it will become consistantly harder to find new players because I'd be the old coot stuck in 3.5
I am an old coot stuck in 1E/2E/Custom rules who has a bunch of old coot players who have no desire to even read anything 3E, much less 3.5;
Damn glumag. It's too bad we aren't close enough to game together. I'd love to play some 1st ED stuff again. | |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 07/30/2005 5:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh.
Ya think? [eyes]
| |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 07/31/2005 1:35 PM |
| My thoughts on the upcoming 4th ed.
I can take it or I can leave it. If I do not enjoy it as much as 3.5 ed and I can still find players, I will stick with 3.5 ed. I would love to play some of the non-D20 games out there, like 7th Sea (one that did not work well in a D20 rules setting) and Warhammer Fantasy RPG (I remember playing that when it first came out about 17 years ago and had a lot of fond memories about the game, even with at least one player in the group being a total putz.)
Is it just me or are more publishers going back to non-D20 rules for their settings?
| |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
| |
| DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 07/31/2005 8:09 PM |
| I don't wanna see it because I love looking to new releases, but can'r afford to replace from the core up.
Whenever it happens, it happens. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6560 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 07/31/2005 8:27 PM |
| I have no interest whatsoever in D&D 4.0. I barely bought 3.5 core books, because it bugged me so much that they changed from 3.0 to 3.5. I don't like buying new sets of books. I am much more interested in improving the game by expansion--better written modules, etc.--than releasing a new addition. I don't think the primary motivation is progress, but financial. And I am already spending enough money on miniatures that I don't think it's fair to "upgrade" to a new edition. So what that the game has areas for improvement and it isn't perfect. I don't really think a "perfect" version is out there. I do think 3.5 is the best system they have made. However, I really would like some stability for the game instead of a new edition.
I don't care if people call me backwards for saying this. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 08/01/2005 4:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
I don't care if people call me backwards for saying this.
You're backwards [:p] | |
Bite me. | |
|
kyrin
Commander
3136 Posts
| | 08/01/2005 8:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
I don't care if people call me backwards for saying this.
You're backwards [:p]
But you're also right. [)]
Dropping a couple hundred dollars on a new edition is non-negligible, esecially when you consider that the people who play, say, chess don't have to "upgrade" every few years...
But the big issue for me is TIME. I really don't have the time to learn a new edition. I've already collapsed my gaming down to just D&D, 'cuz I don't have the time to learn a new system. 3rd Ed caught me at the right time: I was looking to get back into P&P gaming after a few years in LARP, and 3.0 was old-school enough to appeal to my aged heart, but improved enough to stimulate my brain. However, I STILL don't have it all down, with attacks of opportunity and "non-backward" armor class and giants with Giant Strength and oy gevalt. I'm 40 years old, and my brain is beginning to soften, and I don't think I can learn another system.
And that's the big reason I'll not be switching to 4th Ed any time soon.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/01/2005 9:03 AM |
| That's entirely valid.
I changed to 3.5e the day it came out because it fixed so many things that were irritating me about 3e, whilst retaining most of the structure. (The changes to the Ranger, Bard and Paladin were very significant, as were the changes to monster creation and advancement).
Heck, I even have the special edition PHB, and I'll be getting the special edition DMG as soon as I can scrape the money together.
Am I in a hurry to get to 4e? Definitely not.
When it does come out, I'm going to investigate it - and probably buy the core books, because I'll want to know what is going on. However, I won't automatically convert my campaign(s) over.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/01/2005 9:51 AM |
| quote:
I am much more interested in improving the game by expansion--better written modules, etc.--than releasing a new addition. I don't think the primary motivation is progress, but financial.
HEAR HEAR!!!
quote:
So what that the game has areas for improvement and it isn't perfect. I don't really think a "perfect" version is out there. I do think 3.5 is the best system they have made. However, I really would like some stability for the game instead of a new edition.
Hear this guy some more! He knows what he's talking about! :)
| |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/01/2005 10:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
I don't think the primary motivation is progress, but financial. And I am already spending enough money on miniatures that I don't think it's fair to "upgrade" to a new edition.
Absolutely correct. I have confidence that the designers at WoTC are primarily concerned with producing the best product they can, but Hasbro only cares about what makes money.
The idea of "progress" amuses me. So many people talking passionately about the progress of an RPG. We're not talking about medical or technological progress, it's an RPG people. Let's keep our prospective here. At the time when 3rd ED was announced, I heard people saying that the D&D system was obsolete? WTF??? How can a game be obsolete? We're not talking about computers here or surgical techniques from 4 decades ago, this is a freakin' RPG for god's sake.
Now, with all that out of the way, I think a 4th ED is inevitable. I think we all agree on that. Is it needed? Is it beneficial? Is it progress? I don't know. I don't have those answers. I know one thing though, 2007 is too soon. At least for me. Is it going to really be 2007, I don't know that either.
I know when the day is done it's all up to me whether I buy new books or not or whether I buy a new edition or not, but the release of a new edition this soon will completely alienate me.
That's just the way I feel.
| |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4458 Posts
| | 08/01/2005 12:09 PM |
| I too would buy 4E core books if they came out next year. But I hope they don't, nor for a long time after that.
I played D&D, and then moved to AD&D. It was a no brainer to get away from 1st edition and move to 2nd. I was happy there for many years... But I lose interest in the game. I really didn't like where the company was going (with the skills and power books...). When third edition came out, and ran out and found a group to play with. They were wrapping up a VERY long 2nd edition campaign, so I didn't even get a chance to really get going with third edition for more than a year after it came out (even though the DM and one of the players in our group was heavily involved in Living Greyhawk, they wanted to tie up the old Campaign first, and i don't blame them for not wanting to convert...).
That said, it was trivial to take my 1st edition or even basic D&D modules/supplements and use them with 2nd edition. The Change from 2nd to 3rd was much harder, though not impossible.
I expect that 4E will be to 3E was 2E was to 1. IF that makes sense! If it is, then a transition will be possible for people like me. They will run 3.x and use some new stuff, or adopt 4e, but use a lot of the supplements for 3.x that they never got around to.
As I don't get to play often however, full adoption of 4e by my group is highly unlikely. At least until 10 years or so have passed. We shall see if that lines up with its release.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
AnarionZelle
Underboss
1069 Posts
USA
| | 08/26/2007 4:00 PM |
| Posted By Captain Harlock on 07/29/2005 9:38 AM quote:
Originally posted by Zardnaar
I would hope 2008 at the minimum for 4th ed. Imagine the uproar.
1st ed mid 70's-89
2nd ed 89-2000
3.0 2000-2003
3.5 2003-2008-2010???
If WoTC are running out of ideas for sourcebooks (lets face it a few have been less than spectacular) 4.0 seems more likely. I think they've been printing the books to fast- look at the glut of books in just over 2 years of 3.5. 2nd ed at eat took a few years to saturate us with the Complete book series of races and class's. Wouldn't mind a 3.5 complete epic book though.
Well, the thing is, they are already telling the owners/creators of other game worlds/campaigns that they are coming out with 4e in2007. They are also telling those people that 4e will NOT be OGL/OGC. Dan Cooper
| |
Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x2,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuckI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/26/2007 4:40 PM |
| | ooh, AnarionZelle casts raise thread. | |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
GuJiaXian
Sergeant
636 Posts
Holladay, Utah
| | 08/26/2007 5:58 PM |
| | Of course, the information was spotty at best. Above, Dan Cooper claims that 4e will not be OGL/OGC compliant, while we already know that it will be. So, while they might have either had some inside knowledge or guessed very well, they certainly didn't know everything. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/26/2007 6:21 PM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/26/2007 5:58 PM
Of course, the information was spotty at best. Above, Dan Cooper claims that 4e will not be OGL/OGC compliant, while we already know that it will be. So, while they might have either had some inside knowledge or guessed very well, they certainly didn't know everything.
Very few people know everything. Still, those comments are interesting no?
| |
On vacation 6/29 - 7/5
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |