| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
    
 | | 08/02/2005 8:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
As long as I have "Age of Worms", Greyhawk isn't being ignored.
Okay ignored isn't the right word. I'll say Greyhawk isn't as heavily supported as Eberron or FR.
Mind you, when has Greyhawk ever been heavily supported?
The periods of such are Gygaxian (most adventures were set in Greyhawk, but you'd be lucky to get twelve 32pg adventures in a year - no other source material), and From The Ashes, which so infuriated many fans...
Cheers!
Actually, I think it had lots of support back when.
G, D, T, Slavers, Salt Marsh all were Greyhawks. Then there was a second revival with the still to be topped Greyhawk City supplement and it 3 books, huge maps, and really impressive writing. At the same time Greyhawk Castle and some more got a huge infusion. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/02/2005 9:38 PM |
| The original era (Gygaxian) only had adventures, and the campaign setting (1980, then revised 1983).
There were 33 adventures (and I'm counting G1, G2 and G3 as individual adventures, though they only come to 32 pages in all) between 1978 and 1985.
In eight years, that's four adventures per year.
###
In the period 1988-1989, we got "Castle Greyhawk", "Puppets", "Gargoyles" and "Child's Play". Let's ignore that era.
###
1990-1993 was far more interesting with the lead-up to the Greyhawk Wars, and the Wars themselves. In that period, we had about 17 products.
They've got more pages. Still only four a year. Oh, and they've rewritten Greyhawk substantially.
###
The last period is 1998-2000. The "Reset" period, where things tried to get back to the state they were in 1983, without completely redoing everything. I can see about 12 products in that period.
###
The current period, 2000-2005, is the Living Greyhawk era. This year, I count about 20 Core adventures, 9 Perrenland regionals, and 6 Iuz metaregions that will be released.
While not all of the adventures are great, there are plenty that I've enjoyed. Iuz is currently invading Perrenland, after the new leader of Perrenland tore up the non-aggression pact. The Tenha's are trying to reclaim their devastated homeland, although the Palish want them to do it in the name of Pholtus. Oh, and the Scarlet Brotherhood are up to something. I don't know what it is, but they've certainly been turning up a lot.
Then, there are all the nice things Erik has been putting in Dungeon magazine. (The Abyss series; the Age of Worms, plus other things).
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 08/03/2005 12:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
I run my own world, with REAL gods. If someone held my copy of Avengers #9 hostage and forced me to DM in an "established" world, I guess I'd go Greyhawk, like I did in High School. Altho' I guess if one of my group wanted to DM Eberron, I'd give it a go...
So I don't know Eberron well enough to hate it.
Homebrew all the way, baby!
JIM
aka kyrin
Well at least you know how to spell Eberron Jim.
But about these REAL gods in your campaign????
Sort of reminds me of some exit interviews that were done when the Jurassic Park movie first came out. One woman said "It was great, you couldn't tell the real dinosaurs from the computer generated ones." | |
I have always been here. | |
|
Zardnaar
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 2:42 AM |
| | I really don'y know what to think of Eberron. I haven't read the campaign setting in enough detail. I did enjoy what I did read but I'm a blatant powergamer and it semed even more overpowered than FR. The races didn't appeal to much either. | |
Trades: dj-chuckles (complete)
Sales: Kestral.ca
Bad Trade: Chaotic Good | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 2:47 AM |
| Having played quite a bit of Eberron, it's just the same power level as the rest of D&D. Action points allow the PCs to meet slightly tougher threats, but that's about it.
Not really that much different from Greyhawk.
The level of magic-use is low-level; quite prevalent, but low-level.
There aren't really many high-level characters. Getting a Raise Dead spell is not easy.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 2:54 AM |
| With respect to the new races, only the Warforged is worrying from the aspect of balance; this is simply because it has some nice immunities.
The Changeling, Kalashtar and Shifter all are balanced.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11102 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/03/2005 6:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
As long as I have "Age of Worms", Greyhawk isn't being ignored.
Okay ignored isn't the right word. I'll say Greyhawk isn't as heavily supported as Eberron or FR.
Mind you, when has Greyhawk ever been heavily supported?
The periods of such are Gygaxian (most adventures were set in Greyhawk, but you'd be lucky to get twelve 32pg adventures in a year - no other source material), and From The Ashes, which so infuriated many fans...
Cheers!
What about all those 2nd ED supplements? Iuz the Evil, The Marklands, etc, etc and more recent modules, Doomgrinder, etc?
Yes, not nearly as much as FR, but it's something.
BTW, From The Ashes is one of my all time favorite supplements. | |
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 7:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
What about all those 2nd ED supplements? Iuz the Evil, The Marklands, etc, etc and more recent modules, Doomgrinder, etc?
Yes, not nearly as much as FR, but it's something.
BTW, From The Ashes is one of my all time favorite supplements.
See above. 17 in four years.
From the Ashes drove me from Greyhawk for years. I hated it with a passion, as did many others.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11102 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/03/2005 10:51 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
From the Ashes drove me from Greyhawk for years. I hated it with a passion, as did many others.
Why is that? | |
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 11:33 AM |
| quote:
Why is that?
Well.. I... Er... No, I'm not going to go there....
It was disliked for many reasons, it was enjoyed by others for those SAME reasons.
In my mind it was bad because it fractured the Greyhawk community.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:12 PM |
| I personally really like the From the Ashes stuff, and it always baffled me when the Greytalk crew would cry about it all the time. Carl Sargent is IMO the best designer TSR/WotC ever employed.
It is just not true that Greyhawk isn't supported, in any case. There are piles and piles of Greyhawk things being produced, it is just all through the RPGA, where it is annoying to get your hands on. I wish they'd bundle all the published living stuff into some mega-volume so I could buy it without having to jump through all the RPGA hoops. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:22 PM |
| That is why I say that Greyhawk is unsupported. Unless I can get my hands on it, it is essentially out in the dark.
Greyhawk did have much better support that Merric suggests. 33 modules in 6 years is not too shabby. The dark years he mentions actually has a single 180 page boxed supplement that was the best city adventure ever made (well, for chutzpah, I guess CSIO is better, but it is not as realistic -- 12th level fighter bar tenders and the like gets old). And the module support for Greyhawk was exactly what is needed, not large and expensive books.
I don't think Eberron is bad, but my three gripes are:
1) The books take up retail space that could be filled with Greyhawk.
2) Greyhawk modules work well in Eberron, but Eberron does not work well in Greyhawk, and
3) Greyhawk's setting is more generic allowing its modules to better fit into other settings. The two Eberron supplements I got proved difficult to use and only of limited value for my own setting. Nearly every Greyhawk product ever made (especially the modules but including the boxed sets) has been relatively simple to integrate into my own world when I needed a quick adventure.
Rather than create another world and leaving the old one behind (and it is left behind, unless one wants to mess with RPGA and the Living Campaign) they could have simply tucked the Eberron concept into some corner of Greyhawk and then went on with publishing Greyhawk supplements. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:30 PM |
| The old Gygax-era modules really aren't Greyhawk support, for the most part. The same generic quality that lets them easily be dropped into other games is the same thing that keeps them from qualifying as real setting support, in my opinion.
Contrast, as you mention, to something like the Sargent City of Greyhawk boxed set, which is fantastic, full of actual setting flavor, etc.
Module support is a thing of the past, except for via the RPGA or tiny low overhead d20 publishers. Unfortunately they just don't sell well enough. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 5:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I personally really like the From the Ashes stuff, and it always baffled me when the Greytalk crew would cry about it all the time. Carl Sargent is IMO the best designer TSR/WotC ever employed.
It is just not true that Greyhawk isn't supported, in any case. There are piles and piles of Greyhawk things being produced, it is just all through the RPGA, where it is annoying to get your hands on. I wish they'd bundle all the published living stuff into some mega-volume so I could buy it without having to jump through all the RPGA hoops.
That's my point, actually. There's more being written for Greyhawk now than at any point in the past. Even without going to the RPGA, you have what is published in Dungeon (which is significant).
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
The old Gygax-era modules really aren't Greyhawk support, for the most part. The same generic quality that lets them easily be dropped into other games is the same thing that keeps them from qualifying as real setting support, in my opinion.
Contrast, as you mention, to something like the Sargent City of Greyhawk boxed set, which is fantastic, full of actual setting flavor, etc.
Module support is a thing of the past, except for via the RPGA or tiny low overhead d20 publishers. Unfortunately they just don't sell well enough.
The modules had a lot more support than I think you realize. Not only were they localized, but as in Hommelet, they tied into a back story. But that was not allowed to get too out of hand.
But the reason I won't by any more Eberron and I hope no one else does is that I miss the era when I could pick up a nice module for the default setting. I also bregrudge the space wasted in excellent supplements like [i]Legacy[i/] trying to explain how a device or a rule must be modified for Eberron. 28 paragraphs of localization in a generic supplement (plus 28 more for the older Waterdeep) is 8 pages too much. Could have had two more legacy weapons in that space. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
|
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I personally really like the From the Ashes stuff, and it always baffled me when the Greytalk crew would cry about it all the time. Carl Sargent is IMO the best designer TSR/WotC ever employed.
It is just not true that Greyhawk isn't supported, in any case. There are piles and piles of Greyhawk things being produced, it is just all through the RPGA, where it is annoying to get your hands on. I wish they'd bundle all the published living stuff into some mega-volume so I could buy it without having to jump through all the RPGA hoops.
That's my point, actually. There's more being written for Greyhawk now than at any point in the past. Even without going to the RPGA, you have what is published in Dungeon (which is significant).
Cheers!
But one would have to get Dungeon, and my local library won't carry it (they actually tried, but Piazzo screwed up their PO so many times it went on the banned magazine list). Essentially, there is NO Greyhawk being produced. Greyhawk modules that I cannot order are not modules, they are rumors. When I walk into my gamestore and see a big shiny box full of Greyhawk (gad, how I would love them to rerelease an updated CoG boxed set) then I will admit that Greyhawk is still being supported. Right nown there is always some catch to getting the stuff. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 5:42 PM |
| Not buying Eberron won't make them print modules, though - there isn't a choice between modules and Eberron being made, there's a choice between hardcovers and modules being made. The failure of TSR and the success of WotC has more or less proven that the way they're going to be able to make money is by selling $30 reference hardcovers, not $10 one-use adventures.
I would guess that it is also generally true that players who don't use pre-made settings also tend to not use pre-made adventures, further narrowing the market for such things. Maybe I'm wrong on that, though. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 6:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Not buying Eberron won't make them print modules, though - there isn't a choice between modules and Eberron being made, there's a choice between hardcovers and modules being made. The failure of TSR and the success of WotC has more or less proven that the way they're going to be able to make money is by selling $30 reference hardcovers, not $10 one-use adventures.
I would guess that it is also generally true that players who don't use pre-made settings also tend to not use pre-made adventures, further narrowing the market for such things. Maybe I'm wrong on that, though.
Maybe, but since I am not a collector or fanboy, I can choose not to get into Eberron. At the same time, when a commercial Greyhawk product shows up I will buy it. If it is only me, you are right.
As it is, I think that modules need to be sold as downloads, rather than retail. I am not sure if Wizards could really handle that model. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 6:11 PM |
| | They used to sell older stuff in PDF form via a 3rd party (SVGames) but that practice seems to have ended. If WotC was still an independent company I would think they'd have tried it by now, but that sort of model I doubt plays very well to the suits at the parent company. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 8:23 PM |
| The older adventures can be bought through rpgnow. (They've now the position that SVgames held).
Back-issues of Dungeon are available through the paizo website. They're also beginning to put up pdf versions of some of the mags that you can buy. (Dungeons #112 and #113 are available. Get #112 - it has Maure Castle in it!)
The Shackled City hardcover is set in Greyhawk, also available through paizo's website. (416 pages! Wow!) I'm sure Age of Worms will get a similar treatment.
quote:
s it is, I think that modules need to be sold as downloads, rather than retail. I am not sure if Wizards could really handle that model.
Have a look at Drivethrugames.com ; Wizards have been selling some of their hardcovers as pdfs.
###
Just a note: in the next 9 months, Wizards are producing:
A 32-page Forgotten Realms adventure (Sons of Gruumsh)
A 32-page Eberron adventure (Voyage of the Golden Dragon, IIRC)
A 128-page generic adventure (The Red Hand of Doom)
Three 16-page generic scenarios (Fantastic Locations)
Cheers!
| |
Merric Blackman
| |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 08/03/2005 8:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slapdragon
But one would have to get Dungeon, and my local library won't carry it (they actually tried, but Piazzo screwed up their PO so many times it went on the banned magazine list). Essentially, there is NO Greyhawk being produced. Greyhawk modules that I cannot order are not modules, they are rumors. When I walk into my gamestore and see a big shiny box full of Greyhawk (gad, how I would love them to rerelease an updated CoG boxed set) then I will admit that Greyhawk is still being supported. Right nown there is always some catch to getting the stuff.
Is there anything stopping you getting it yourself? I can get Dungeon Magazine in Ballarat easily enough.
The RPGA is free to join. The Greyhawk adventures are free to download, though they do want you to run them for your friends.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 9:10 PM |
| | Oh, cool, I didn't know it had moved to RPGNow. Sadly noone has still ever done an ESD for the City of Greyhawk boxed set, which I would really like to have in PDF form on my laptop for idle time 3.5 conversion. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/03/2005 9:38 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by Slapdragon
But one would have to get Dungeon, and my local library won't carry it (they actually tried, but Piazzo screwed up their PO so many times it went on the banned magazine list). Essentially, there is NO Greyhawk being produced. Greyhawk modules that I cannot order are not modules, they are rumors. When I walk into my gamestore and see a big shiny box full of Greyhawk (gad, how I would love them to rerelease an updated CoG boxed set) then I will admit that Greyhawk is still being supported. Right nown there is always some catch to getting the stuff.
Is there anything stopping you getting it yourself? I can get Dungeon Magazine in Ballarat easily enough.
The RPGA is free to join. The Greyhawk adventures are free to download, though they do want you to run them for your friends.
Cheers!
Yes, I tried to get dungeon, paid for it, then spent four months sending cancelled checks to these people in South Dakota. | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 08/04/2005 1:06 PM |
| quote:
The old Gygax-era modules really aren't Greyhawk support, for the most part. The same generic quality that lets them easily be dropped into other games is the same thing that keeps them from qualifying as real setting support, in my opinion.
Contrast, as you mention, to something like the Sargent City of Greyhawk boxed set, which is fantastic, full of actual setting flavor, etc.
I agree with Slapdragon here...
I PREFER that game worlds get most of their development via the adventures, and said adventures should cover a pretty tight location.
T1-4 gave us terrific backstory and history for the Kron Hills, as well as Furyondy and Veluna
C2 and WG 5 gave us informaiton about Urnst and the Seer
S1 gave us accerrark
S4 Gave us Iggwillv (well her daughter) which connects to Grazz't and Iuz
G1-3, D1-3, Q1 gave a CRAP load of information before ANY existed on the Underdark and the Abyss, as well as detail on Sterrich and environs
U1-3 gave us saltmarsh, which has now had further treatment in the DMG II
The list goes on and on...
I've never understood why "adventure inflation" had to take place... That it wasn't good enough to save the town or city, once you hit 10th level, you had to saving the world every week.
The old modules kept with that earier thought. Sure, D1-3 is a bit broader, but it is completely closed out from teh rest of the Flanaess.
That's how I like my modules, and my game worlds....
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/04/2005 2:39 PM |
| | With the exception of T1-4 though, the backstory you're talking about in most of those cases is literally like 6 or 7 sentences used to shoehorn an already-existing tournament scenario into the setting. That's not development, that's retrofitting. ;) | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
| E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/04/2005 3:06 PM |
| | I think Eberron is cool. | |
Join the Eternal Skirmish Campaign.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr Seuss | |
|
Sjofn
Sneak
141 Posts
| | 08/04/2005 5:30 PM |
| | I think Eberron is pretty nifty, but I also don't have any sort of deep attachment to any of the older settings. | |
God Save the Horn Players | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11102 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/05/2005 7:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
With the exception of T1-4 though, the backstory you're talking about in most of those cases is literally like 6 or 7 sentences used to shoehorn an already-existing tournament scenario into the setting. That's not development, that's retrofitting. ;)
How can it be retrofitting when all those adventures were by default set IN Greyhawk? That was the only official game world at the time. What other campaign world did they have to place their adventures in? | |
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 2:50 PM |
| quote:
With the exception of T1-4 though, the backstory you're talking about in most of those cases is literally like 6 or 7 sentences used to shoehorn an already-existing tournament scenario into the setting. That's not development, that's retrofitting. ;)
Really? Your not very well versed in Greyhawk lore then, if that is what you believe.
I'll take small global development, and team it with an exciting location, than the fully detailed ad naseum supplement that leaves no flexibility,a nd which will be replaced by another supplement on the same area that builds upon events that may not have occurred in my campaign. I call that Railroading... ;)
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
| The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 3:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
quote:
The old Gygax-era modules really aren't Greyhawk support, for the most part. The same generic quality that lets them easily be dropped into other games is the same thing that keeps them from qualifying as real setting support, in my opinion.
Contrast, as you mention, to something like the Sargent City of Greyhawk boxed set, which is fantastic, full of actual setting flavor, etc.
I agree with Slapdragon here...
I PREFER that game worlds get most of their development via the adventures, and said adventures should cover a pretty tight location.
T1-4 gave us terrific backstory and history for the Kron Hills, as well as Furyondy and Veluna
C2 and WG 5 gave us informaiton about Urnst and the Seer
S1 gave us accerrark
S4 Gave us Iggwillv (well her daughter) which connects to Grazz't and Iuz
G1-3, D1-3, Q1 gave a CRAP load of information before ANY existed on the Underdark and the Abyss, as well as detail on Sterrich and environs
U1-3 gave us saltmarsh, which has now had further treatment in the DMG II
The list goes on and on...
I've never understood why "adventure inflation" had to take place... That it wasn't good enough to save the town or city, once you hit 10th level, you had to saving the world every week.
The old modules kept with that earier thought. Sure, D1-3 is a bit broader, but it is completely closed out from teh rest of the Flanaess.
That's how I like my modules, and my game worlds....
Pat E
I generally do not run pre-fab adventures, so I hate my backstory to come in that form. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 4:52 PM |
| quote:
Your not very well versed in Greyhawk lore then, if that is what you believe.
I actually have pretty extensive experience with it. I even subscribed (and very very rarely posted) to Greytalk for a while (at the time when Rob Kuntz was shattering everyone's illusions about who the imprisoned "demigods" were, etc.) I have been playing since 82 and I have collected just about every one of those old modules. Heck, one of my current campaigns is in GH (1982 version) and I just finished running T1-4 for about the 4th time.
No, not all the modules were tournament scenarios, but many of them were. The Ghost Tower of Inverness that you mention is a good example of what I'm talking about here. There's really no actual setting info there at all, just a thrown-together intro intended to give a reason to use the pre-made characters in the tournament scenario. There are some exceptions that are better than the average - Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth has a little bit of interesting info, Tomb of Horrors as well, the WG series are better, but for the most part you can really see the duct tape sticking the tournament scenarios onto the setting. Even most of the A series is pretty weak, imo. Take the aspis - they're just thrown into the module because someone thought they were cool, there's no real explanation of where they come from, why they're working with the slavers, etc.
There *is* good GH material, but very little of it comes from the modules. GH was unsupported for so long that people tend to cling a little too hard to those tiny bits and scraps that they extracted from what there was in 1E. The reality is, a lot of those adventures are nearly unplayable now. Gygax never wrote a module with 10% of the flavor and coherency of some of the stuff that later generations of designers have come up with (take the Enemy Within campaign for WH, for example,) with the possible exception of Hommlet and parts of the GDQ series, and most of those modules need a lot of work if not outright re-writing to bring them up to modern standards. The non-Gygax ones can be especially bad - I'm looking at you, Harold Johnson. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
slayer1
Sergeant
597 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 6:05 PM |
| | No eberron here! Forgotten Realms all the way.[:D] | |
Har 25/80 De 35/60 Ar 43/60 GoL 61/72 Ab 42/60 Dk 43/60 Af 51/60 Ud 49/60 WD 50/60 | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2076 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 6:42 PM |
| | if ebberon has cool mins maps in modules then count me in. i like the warforged and wont be shocked to see it as a playable race in 4.0 for all settings. they ahve put a lot of money into eberron and its not going away any time soon. What WOTc should do is merge forgotten realms and ebrron into the same world. Makes everyone happy that way | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
kestrel.ca
Underboss
1676 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 8:18 PM |
| | Really enjoy Eberron. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 91 || Pending Trades: 0 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|
arcabious
Underboss
1130 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 8:32 PM |
| | I love ebberon. It is awesome and has revived D&D for me. Its different. Yeah I know that scares alot of people. Even if you don't like the setting and warforged, you have to respect keith bakers creative mind and how he has detailed his world. I was getting awfully tired of the same old D&D. I like the semi modern influence. City of towers, lighting rail, and many other things bring a different idea to D&D. I think ebberon is one of the best campagin settings created. | |
aka: Dasher;The half Orc half reindeer Captain
reference list: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5339
Sucks to be you | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 08/06/2005 9:03 AM |
| This is really a conversation for another thread... BUT...
quote:
Even most of the A series is pretty weak, imo. Take the aspis - they're just thrown into the module because someone thought they were cool, there's no real explanation of where they come from, why they're working with the slavers, etc.
It was 1983 (or so).
Game design has come a LONG way. Adventures were not written back then to be fully inernally consistant (what DID all those monsters eat, anyway?!)
If I took a 1950's or 60's corvette, and took JUST the Features (AM Radio, a fan, no air bags, etc. etc.), and slapped them into a new car, do you think it would sell? What if I took all the modern features of a good car, and slipped them into a Stingray body?
The mechanics of the old modules may not be up to par, but the styling is and way. (So much so that that was a major selling point of 3e, going back the the "feel" for first edition).
The A's are some of my favorite modules. I don't know why the Aspis was there, but I certainly used them, just like the Slavers did. The info contained in those 4 tournament modules helped to provide flesh to what happens along the Wild Coast, as well as the complex dynamics of the Pomarj.
While you may choose to feel that the info in those modules didn't contribute to the setting, I think your feelings for the "non newness" of them is masking the reality. I don't care that the G-D-Q's need a lot of work to be played today, what I care is that they DID provide excellent background for a part of Greyhawk, and provided the framework for the underdark that has now been supplanted by Drizz't and the FR.
That is how Greyhawk was developed in 1e. We can't go back. But frankly, I liked it.
Pat E
| |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11102 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/06/2005 8:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
The A's are some of my favorite modules. I don't know why the Aspis was there, but I certainly used them, just like the Slavers did.
heh, kinda like that lich in one of the "D" series modules. Can't remember which one. Didn't know why he was there in that cave just hanging out, didn't care either. It was cool having a lich there. | |
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 08/06/2005 10:48 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by wicked cool
What WOTc should do is merge forgotten realms and ebrron into the same world. Makes everyone happy that way
Like mixing shit and ice cream, such a plan improves neither product. Keep your "Best-Left-"Forgotten Realms away from my beloved Eberron. | |
I now have a Have/Want list updated with all my rares! Stop by to take a look!
Trade References: www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8560 | |
|
Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 08/07/2005 2:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Korhal_IV
quote:
Originally posted by wicked cool
What WOTc should do is merge forgotten realms and ebrron into the same world. Makes everyone happy that way
Like mixing shit and ice cream, such a plan improves neither product. Keep your "Best-Left-"Forgotten Realms away from my beloved Eberron.
Although I prefer FR to Eberron, I agree with the sentiment. Mixing the two would be disasterous, if you mean just taking the worlds and slamming them together. Taking some of the ideas of both and mixing the ideas in a new world, on the otherhand would be wonderful. Just leave out the Uber Warforged.
| |
Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
| |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11102 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/07/2005 4:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Korhal_IV
quote:
Originally posted by wicked cool
What WOTc should do is merge forgotten realms and ebrron into the same world. Makes everyone happy that way
Like mixing shit and ice cream, such a plan improves neither product. Keep your "Best-Left-"Forgotten Realms away from my beloved Eberron.
??????????? How do you improve sh*t? [:D] | |
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |