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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
    
 | | 09/24/2005 4:30 PM |
| | recovered topic 9118 | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 4:30 PM |
| Seems good,
The only not standard out of the book is the smite law and the change in resistance type. Both are realistic and well thought out. I am a huge fan of adding templates to creatures, Fiendish for a little boost, half fiend, half dragon, and half troll for a big boost. There is very little as scary as a horde of Half Red Dragon Trolls flying down at you. The whole idea of fire proof trolls is disturbing.
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 4:33 PM |
| The only thing I can think of changing at this point is dropping Alertness for another feat -- maybe Improved Initiative (unless it's a pre-req for your feat?).
Having spot and listen +1 isn't really worth that feat in the case of these fighters. Improved Initiative would allow them to enter combat earlier, and (likely) ahead of some of the players. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 4:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
The only thing I can think of changing at this point is dropping Alertness for another feat -- maybe Improved Initiative (unless it's a pre-req for your feat?).
Having spot and listen +1 isn't really worth that feat in the case of these fighters. Improved Initiative would allow them to enter combat earlier, and (likely) ahead of some of the players.
A nice idea, Darius. I put in Alertness to partially compensate for their low wisdom, but I'll consider Improved Init.
Thanks for the compliment, Malin. Anyone got any other ideas?
JIM
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Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 09/24/2005 4:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
The most common form of summoning these warriors, however, is by sowing the teeth of a chaotic dragon, prepared by a special ritual. The color of the armor of the dracodontidae indicates the type of dragon they are made from.
Kyrin, did you get this idea from an article in Dragon magazine # 98 called "The Magic of Dragon's Teeth?" | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 5:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
The most common form of summoning these warriors, however, is by sowing the teeth of a chaotic dragon, prepared by a special ritual. The color of the armor of the dracodontidae indicates the type of dragon they are made from.
Kyrin, did you get this idea from an article in Dragon magazine # 98 called "The Magic of Dragon's Teeth?"
Um... no. I'm a very irregular reader of Dragon. This is basically a fiendish template for chaotic critters.
What do the article say, in a nutshell?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 5:11 PM |
| Well... alertness is actually a +2 and if you are having them as guards, it is pretty invaluable. I have always liked having some roundness to creatures and not just combat monsters.
Improved initiative is great and with a total initiative modifier of +5 they would have a good chance of acting ahead of the players.
Mixing them up, having some of them use long spears for the reach and having them fight in ranks. The complete warrior tactical feat of Formation Fighting would be really good but you would have to boost them one level (and hey, that would give them 2 more feats which would be well worth the +1 challenge rating).
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"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 5:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
Well... alertness is actually a +2 and if you are having them as guards, it is pretty invaluable. I have always liked having some roundness to creatures and not just combat monsters.
I used the term, "+1," since they have a Wisdom bonus of -1. In this case, it's not going to do them much good. A whole +1 to those skills won't save them that much effort, and the maximum roll they can ever get is 21. Big deal. If they try to spot a rogue or ranger of the same level, they'll likely face a minimum hide or move silently check of base +9. The odds are not in their favour.
In this case, sticking to combat help, like improved init gives them a better bonus to compensate for the low wisdom. Sometimes, it's simply better to stick to what the characters/critters are good at. | |
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Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 09/24/2005 5:23 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
What do the article say, in a nutshell?
Basically, it says that dragon's teeth can be enchanted, then planted in the ground. A warrior will sprout from this and will be loyal to the enchanter.
If you're interested, I can try to scan the article and email it to you. | |
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Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 5:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
What do the article say, in a nutshell?
Basically, it says that dragon's teeth can be enchanted, then planted in the ground. A warrior will sprout from this and will be loyal to the enchanter.
If you're interested, I can try to scan the article and email it to you.
Please do!
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/24/2005 5:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
Mixing them up, having some of them use long spears for the reach and having them fight in ranks. The complete warrior tactical feat of Formation Fighting would be really good but you would have to boost them one level (and hey, that would give them 2 more feats which would be well worth the +1 challenge rating).
They're too chaotic to do any formation fighting. Now their lawful opposite numbers, the Myrmidions ("ant-warriors"), would definitely employ the Phalanx Fighting type feats and work together. But they're bopping around on the Battle Plains of Acheron, waiting for priests of Athena and Apollo to summon them. I'd make Myrmidions 6th level, sub Phalanx Fighting for Improved Shield Bash, and make Formation Fighting one of the 6th-level feats.
I want to keep the Dracodontidae 5th level. Two more feats and an extra attack might be too much for my 9th-level players. I know, I'm soft on 'em. [:D]
By the way, I'm using the Caravan Guard mini for them. They're about as close as we get, since the spear is apparently too simple a weapon for heavily-armored fighters to carry...
JIM
aka kyrin
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My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 09/24/2005 6:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
If you're interested, I can try to scan the article and email it to you.
Please do!
JIM
aka kyrin
[/quote]
Okay, just scanned it and cleaned it up some. Let me know if you don't get it. | |
Ghendar - Now snark free!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 1:50 PM |
| All right, ya talked me into it. Out goes Alertness, in goes Improved Initiative. Any other suggestions from the gallery?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 2:32 PM |
| | Can you summarize the differences between your template and the fiendish template? I'm trying to figure out whether the CR adjustment (+1) is correct. | |
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 3:26 PM |
| The template seems decent and fitting, but lacking in offensive mmpphh. Maybe instead of perma entropic shield, have some of them get that others perma divine favor, or some other 1st level offensive buff spell. As the rest of the templates abilities are defensive in nature (DR, spell resist, energy resist), this might balance it out. Also note whatever the caster level of these effects is for dispelling purposes, creature HD seems reasonable.
Also the gear choices seem sub-optimal, his str is 16, he has the encumberance to throw on the full plate and large steel shield, upping his AC by 3. Spears also are kinda eh. One could drop the spear and shield feat and pick up EWP bastard sword or Dwarf war axe.
Feat choices also seem a little lacking. IMP shield bash seems suboptimal given the huge attack bonus hit you take for dual wielding without two weapon fighting. Power attack would probably be a better choice if you want to up damage at the expense of to hit bonus. Speaking of which, these guys are chaotic, why the heavy armor and shields?
If these choices (feat and gear) are deliberate for flavor reason, go ahead, but he will be pretty weak for his CR. Your average 6th level PC fighter would beat this guy solo pretty routinely, and a party of 4 6th level PCs would mop this guy up.
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 5:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fry
Can you summarize the differences between your template and the fiendish template? I'm trying to figure out whether the CR adjustment (+1) is correct.
Not much difference. Just Smite Law. The Energy resistance is less versatile, but I dropped in the Entropic Shield.
I was thinking about putting Protection from Law on them as well, but I was afraid that might make them too powerful for the CR. Comments?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 5:37 PM |
| Thanks for the Comments, Mr. F. Remember that my world has a Greek theme, and that has influenced some of the choices I've made. By the way, haven't seen you at our DDM events in Austin. C'mon out sometime!
quote:
Originally posted by Mrfurious
The template seems decent and fitting, but lacking in offensive mmpphh. Maybe instead of perma entropic shield, have some of them get that others perma divine favor, or some other 1st level offensive buff spell.
I went with Entropic Shield to reflect their chaotic nature. Also, the user of the Dragon's Teeth is trying to at least partially counter a pretty powerful archer in the party. And that leader (11th-level Paladin of Ares) will have plenty of offensive oomph. These guys are cannon fodder to keep most of the party busy while he goes after his target.
quote:
Also note whatever the caster level of these effects is for dispelling purposes
D'oh! Thanks for pointing that out.
quote:
Also the gear choices seem sub-optimal, his str is 16, he has the encumberance to throw on the full plate and large steel shield, upping his AC by 3. Spears also are kinda eh. One could drop the spear and shield feat and pick up EWP bastard sword or Dwarf war axe.
This reflects the situation in my game world. Heavy Armor is made by the dwarves only (although the Cult of Hephaestus is working on duplicating the techniques) so banded mail is pretty exotic, reflecting their otherworldly nature. Light shield is to allow the shield bash attack, to reflect the way a Greek soldier fought. The choice of spear is also part of this.
quote:
Speaking of which, these guys are chaotic, why the heavy armor and shields?
I'm sure that's what the Viking berserkers in Ysgard are constantly asking them. "Hey dere, Greek boy, vhy you usin' all that precious metal for de armor? Und vhy you use lil pointy shpear inshtead of der axe?" [:D]
quote:
If these choices (feat and gear) are deliberate for flavor reason, go ahead, but he will be pretty weak for his CR. Your average 6th level PC fighter would beat this guy solo pretty routinely, and a party of 4 6th level PCs would mop this guy up.
Probably true. Hopefully 6 of them will keep the party busy while Aeneas does his dirty deeds. As I said, they're just fodder.
Thanks again, Mr. F! Anyone else?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 09/26/2005 6:31 PM |
| | What did you think of that article, Kyrin? | |
Ghendar - Now snark free!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 09/26/2005 9:26 PM |
| Kyrin,
I can see the entropic shield bugging the archer, good call.
One thing I can see happening though is the PCs just ignoring the fodder and heading for the main bad guy (assuming his threat is known from the beginning). As a PC I am much more intimidated by orc barbarian fodder than by human sword and shield fodder. To give a DDM analogy, I wouldn't think twice about provoking that AoO from the stalwart Paladin, but the orc berserker on the otherhand. Unless the fodder provides a credible threat, PCs will ignore it. And if you have 9th level PCs, foes with +10 to hit for 1d8+6 just doesn't scare you average fighter/cleric/melee type. And with only 38 HP, 2 fireballs are almost assured to take them out (or one empowered one).
As for skirmish stuff in Austin, I've been busy with DnD home games and what not, I'm trying to make it though.
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Sanity is a one trick pony, my friend, . . .but when you're good and crazy the sky is the limit.
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 09/27/2005 12:20 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mrfurious
One thing I can see happening though is the PCs just ignoring the fodder and heading for the main bad guy (assuming his threat is known from the beginning).
He will be in disguise, but I'm sure they will recognize him, as he is an old enemy. And like all good enemies, he'll teleport away if things get too hot. But he should get his licks in.
quote:
As a PC I am much more intimidated by orc barbarian fodder than by human sword and shield fodder.
That's another encounter. [)]
quote:
And with only 38 HP, 2 fireballs are almost assured to take them out (or one empowered one).
Nary a wizard in the party... Too bad, so sad... [}:)]
quote:
As for skirmish stuff in Austin, I've been busy with DnD home games and what not, I'm trying to make it though.
Cool! Next event is the 16th of October. Then two weeks after that -- Pre-release!
JIM
aka kyrin
| |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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