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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
    
 | | 10/10/2005 11:36 AM |
| | recovered topic 9714 | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 11:36 AM |
| Are your PCs starting out at level 1 or higher, cause some of those tasks sound pretty hard (also note: the PCs will probably try to do them in the most inconvenient order possible) and if they wander onto the LE quest first there's a good chance of them getting totally destroyed.
If they are freed slaves does this limit what classes they can have starting out, ala no wizards or anything?
I like the idea and in generall it looks very solid (at least to me) and it looks much better then my first adventure path attempt did (thank Pelor I never actually tried to run that abomination) | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 12:10 PM |
| | The PCs are going to be pretty sad if they don't visit the Silver Dragon before doing all their other quests, because it looks like his three tasks are part of each of the other three pendant-chases. However, players being players, they will hate being railroaded into starting that quest first. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 12:34 PM |
| The PCs can be any class they want. If they're a spell caster then they pray in secret. If they're any strange thing like a thri-kreen they'll start out in the arena.
As to the pendant chasing order. I'll do as much as I can to not let them go to the south or wset off the bat.
And yes the PCs will start out in lvl 1 and like I said they'll be doing mediocer tasks. Fighting gobs and hobgobs in the begining if they go to the wset right off the bat. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 1:14 PM |
| The big problem I see isn't so much in the quests but in a city where the rulers are of such diametrically opposed alignments. The city would explode into an all out war. Why would the Chaotic Evil faction ever release slaves? How in the world would the Chaotic EVil and the Lawful Good factions ever agree on anything?
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"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 1:20 PM |
| It's like any governmental system, someone comes up with an idea and then the government votes on it.
In this case the CE head of government and his members didn't persuade the rest of the government that this is a bad idea. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/10/2005 3:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
It's like any governmental system, someone comes up with an idea and then the government votes on it.
In this case the CE head of government and his members didn't persuade the rest of the government that this is a bad idea.
Just to follow up on Malin's point, I think you need to look at how you are running alignment in your game. If you want to change it, that is your choice, but under the core rules, CE beings don't really share in government. CE beings take power through violence or the thread of violence and the concept of democracy would be laughed at. Power and strength are everything to a CE leader.
Now, I could see a LG and LE combination government, with lots of intrigue, maybe even with a few CG elements thrown in (independent councillors/MPs/Senators basically). CE really does not fit in that mix, however.
If you are running a modified alignment system, however, it may all work.
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/10/2005 3:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
The PCs can be any class they want. If they're a spell caster then they pray in secret. If they're any strange thing like a thri-kreen they'll start out in the arena.
As to the pendant chasing order. I'll do as much as I can to not let them go to the south or wset off the bat.
And yes the PCs will start out in lvl 1 and like I said they'll be doing mediocer tasks. Fighting gobs and hobgobs in the begining if they go to the wset right off the bat.
Another note here. Not all spell casters pray. In fact, only clerics pray for their spells. Druids sort of meditate on nature, Sorcerers have innate power, and Wizards must have a spellbook to study.
I would suggest that in case anyone does run a wizard that you include some way for them to obtain a spellbook at the start of the adventure. Otherwise, that character will be useless until they do get a spellbook.
Another way to accomplish this would be to run the first session of the game in the city. Some easy task that allows the group to build up a bit of money so they can properly equip themselves before they set off with everything else you have set out. You have mentioned the catch the 4 criminals, etc., but start even simpler if the PCs start with nothing.
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 3:17 PM |
| I was thinking of doing that, just letting them get accustomed to the world for a session or two.
In the case of a wizard, slaves still have some spare time (At least in my world), so there shouldn't be much of a problem. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/10/2005 3:31 PM |
| A few last ideas for you.
Your campaign set up coud result in a huge railroading of the players if you are not careful. If you want to give them a nudge in the right direction, however, you could set something up pointing in the direction of the Silver Dragon for them to make things easier. Maybe the LG leader suggests they go find the northern amulet first, while the CE one pushes them to go south (or maybe trys to get them to kill the Silver Dragon, saying it is a disguised demon or something).
You could also eliminate the Silver Dragon angle and have a patron in the city itself ask the characters to find the objects you detail. The silver dragon would then give them the amulet if they proved themselves worthy. Of course, if the Silver Dragon is smart (and most have 20+ Int) it will want to know why the PCs want the amulet. It probably knows the effects when all four amulets are brought together. Is it going to trust humans with that power? Also, would the Silver Dragon know about the existence of Void Dragons and their powers? If so, would it know that the Void Dragon can use the amulets for greater power. I think you need to decide on the power of the amulets now, otherwise the effect later on will not be believable.
As to the end of your game. Why would the Void Dragon reveal himself while the PCs are present. That is just stupid of him. If he has plotted so carefully to have the PCs do his dirty work, thus making them powerful heros in the process, I would think he would wait for them to leave, then knock the other leaders unconscious, then eat them, and then deal with everything else. In fact, such a smart planner (which is not what CE is noted for as an aside) would likely also have figured out a way to eliminate the PCs without revealing his hand.
Actually, if the Void Dragon is your end of campaign battle I assume he will be roughly a CR 20 or CR 21 type challenge (maybe even higher). If so, why does he not just take the amulets himself? He would easily push over the challenges you have set out for the PCs.
Anyways, hope that helps out a bit. Take what you want and throw away the rest.
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/10/2005 3:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I was thinking of doing that, just letting them get accustomed to the world for a session or two.
In the case of a wizard, slaves still have some spare time (At least in my world), so there shouldn't be much of a problem.
OK, but what slave owner in his right mind would want one of his slaves being able to fry him in his sleep with Burning Hands, or put him to sleep with Sleep, or Magic Missle him to gain freedom? Histroically on earth slaves were not well treated in many cases, and slave revolts were common.
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 3:45 PM |
| Dude , the PCs won't be able to take on a CR 20-21 creature!!! They're starting at lvl 1. If he was going to be cr 20-21 the campaign would take upwards of (To my calculations) 3-4 years!!!
As for the PCs hearing the CE head turning into a dragon and going to attack him, it ain't that he wants to be heard but he makes such a racket with such a big dragon body moving around the big room knocking stuff over makeing alot of noise, thus the PCs hear this and wonder what's the matter and go back up to the room and find the dragon there.
Also, the thing about the silver dragon. The silver will be disgused as someone in need of help in a city north of the main city. He'll need help with something and if the PCs help him, he'll open up the back door persay to his hideout when they get there. About the PCs going to the dragon first. I guess the dragon, after he gets help, will tell the PCs of the dragon and that he can help them with their journey.
You gotta remember that this is my first game I've EVER created. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 3:49 PM |
| Oh man, now that I think of it, my game is just FULL of holes.
Back to the drawing baord. (It was starting to make sense to me, but I'm just starting to learn how to play so I can see where my mistakes are coming from) | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/10/2005 4:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
Dude , the PCs won't be able to take on a CR 20-21 creature!!! They're starting at lvl 1. If he was going to be cr 20-21 the campaign would take upwards of (To my calculations) 3-4 years!!!
As for the PCs hearing the CE head turning into a dragon and going to attack him, it ain't that he wants to be heard but he makes such a racket with such a big dragon body moving around the big room knocking stuff over makeing alot of noise, thus the PCs hear this and wonder what's the matter and go back up to the room and find the dragon there.
Also, the thing about the silver dragon. The silver will be disgused as someone in need of help in a city north of the main city. He'll need help with something and if the PCs help him, he'll open up the back door persay to his hideout when they get there. About the PCs going to the dragon first. I guess the dragon, after he gets help, will tell the PCs of the dragon and that he can help them with their journey.
You gotta remember that this is my first game I've EVER created.
Well, you asked for some consreuctive criticism, so I offered some up. I full realise that this is your first campaign. Based upon your posts there are big gaps in waht we know about your plans, so I made some guesses (assumptions is you will) based upon what you had provided.
Depending on how often you play and for how long, your players could have their PCs to level 20 in about a year and a half or so (assuming 4 hrs a week, every week for 20 months). Of course if you play less often, then it might be 3-4 years.
As to challenges. Taking on the various big bad guys with the amulets you have listed, and to survive, your characters will have to be at least in the level 10-12 range (possibly higher depending on how many opponents they face at once). Without full stats for at least levels for your villans I cannot be more specific than that. Your Void Dragon must be more powerful than that to pose a challenge at the end of the campaign, otherwise your PCs will simply walk all over him. The ability to create planar rifts/portals is a high level spell for Clerics and Wizards, and most "monsters" who have the innate ability fall in the CR range of 18-22 ish (not all, but most). Thus my pegging the Void Dragon the way that I did.
As to your point about the racket. A word from an old DM. Never assume that your PCs will do something. Many players resist being railroaded. If you tell them they hear noise like furniture falling over they may respond, they may not.
Also, if the Void Dragon is big enough to be knocking over furniture, how big is he? What size is the room? If the Dragon is Huge or larger, that again pushes up his HD and CR to a high level.
Finally, on the Silver Dragon, that sounds great. You did not, however, include that information in the first post. That is why I made the points that I did. Had I know then what you posted later, I would not have made the comments.
Again, you asked for feedback, I am giving you some. Not meant to put down your campaign, just providing some ideas that you may not have considered. Thinking about all these things now makes it easier to deal with the PCs later when they take a course of action that you ahd not expected.
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 4:10 PM |
| Yes I know I said 'constructive critisizm' so I ain't angry.
I wish I could give you all the answers to problems you've brought up but I need some time to think on those things.
And what you said about the CE head not being in the government, what should happen then?? I can't think of anything. He sort of HAS to be there. I'm trying to get as much help on this as I can, but I think I ultimatly need to find a DM to go over everything with me (Hold my hand if you will) throught the entire creation process. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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tree druid
Sergeant
414 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 4:25 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
Yes I know I said 'constructive critisizm' so I ain't angry.
I wish I could give you all the answers to problems you've brought up but I need some time to think on those things.
And what you said about the CE head not being in the government, what should happen then?? I can't think of anything. He sort of HAS to be there. I'm trying to get as much help on this as I can, but I think I ultimatly need to find a DM to go over everything with me (Hold my hand if you will) throught the entire creation process.
Maybe you can have the CE be a military leader of sorts. Have him stage a coup if you will. | |
After all the battles, all the death, life can begin again
Champion of Radiant Dragons | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 4:33 PM |
| | A coup? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 4:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
Oh man, now that I think of it, my game is just FULL of holes.
Back to the drawing baord. (It was starting to make sense to me, but I'm just starting to learn how to play so I can see where my mistakes are coming from)
My best advice to you is to play as a player for a while if you can.. you have some really cool ideas but you need to get inside the game dynamics a bit more before you can DM really lofty and far-reaching adventures, in my opinion.
Try to find a group that needs a few players.. or better yet a DM that can run a campaign for you and your group until you guys get the feel of it and learn all the rules etc. Meanwhile you can be working on your own storyline and adventure and when you are done your first campaign you can jump in with yours.
For example.. when Role Playing, the 4 alignments are more of general guidelines for how to behave, a basic foundation of a template for your character to live by, it is not something that people wear on their sleeves, and often people you think might be of one alignment turn out to be screwing you over :). Your adventure, therefore, might be more fun and "realistic" if there were just 4 heads of state, with separate personality traits that suggest certain alignments, etc.. but may not be what they seem.. part of the adventure would be figuring out who is who(through good sleuthing or just by realizing they've been tricked into some danger).
Start the slaves out slow.. maybe have them do something that catches the leaders' attention during the first few sessions (they get hired to do something, and excell at it, for example). Remember that freed slaves would have a slightly weird view of the world and try to emphasize that to the players.. they wouldn't be used to people being nice to them... perhaps you could even start them all as Neutral characters and the whole point of the first few adventures is for them to develop a character and gradually shift into a definite alignment.
Anyways a good adventure takes a while to write and will be a lot more rewarding if you have some decent role playing experience under your belt.. maybe post an ad at your local gaming store or if you're deteremined to start out as DM right off, buy a pre-made adventure or two to start with. Good Luck! Welcome to D&D :)
Tkort.
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 10/10/2005 4:37 PM |
| | That is what I'm doing now. I'm playing once a week and making this game on the side. I like the creating aspect of being DM, but alot of things bore me like figuring out DCs and CRs and Els for every situation. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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tree druid
Sergeant
414 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 5:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
A coup?
Basically when a leader or political party, often military, over throws a set government. Gives good reasons for the PCs to fight him. | |
After all the battles, all the death, life can begin again
Champion of Radiant Dragons | |
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