nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
    
Rhode Island
 | | 10/24/2005 1:26 PM |
| | recovered topic 10298 | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/24/2005 1:26 PM |
| These are what I'd prepare to make rulings on:
Arcane
2nd lvl- Detect Thoughts
Divine
2nd lvl- Zone of Truth, Augury
3rd lvl- Speak with Dead
4th lvl- Discern Lies, Divination
5th lvl- Commune
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You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1014 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/24/2005 1:49 PM |
| | The guilty party does have an amulet of non-detection and a hat of alter self so he has some defenses. Commune I can see being a major problem as well as detect thoughts. | |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/24/2005 1:58 PM |
| | I was also thinking to a lesser degree Locate Object. They may try to locate evidence, murder weapon, etc. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 10/24/2005 2:45 PM |
| Well I'd say make sure the murderer wasn't seen by the deceased to avoid problems with speak with undead.
And how about if the murderer was psionic or had a amulet to distort or alter Detect Thoughts. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 10/24/2005 3:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
Well I'd say make sure the murderer wasn't seen by the deceased to avoid problems with speak with undead.
And how about if the murderer was psionic or had a amulet to distort or alter Detect Thoughts.
I know Psionics are not everyone's cup of tea but I think in this instance it would make for a good crinkle in the PCs investigations. A Telepath psion could have the means to 'modify' someones memories and the psionics are different enough that it could confuse the wizard and cleric types not being able to tell the difference. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1014 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/24/2005 4:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
Well I'd say make sure the murderer wasn't seen by the deceased to avoid problems with speak with undead.
And how about if the murderer was psionic or had a amulet to distort or alter Detect Thoughts.
OK - have you been looking at my notes or something? Get out of my head! [)]
The murderer is a Mind Flayer assassin. I'm not sure if speak with dead will work as the corpse has no head? | |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 10/24/2005 4:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
OK - have you been looking at my notes or something? Get out of my head! [)]
The murderer is a Mind Flayer assassin. I'm not sure if speak with dead will work as the corpse has no head?
Well then I'd say an easy way to confuse the PCs is to have not only the mindflayer but several of the merchant types onboard all of the LE or NE variant. Sort of the big bad wolf hiding amidst the other wolves. Would give the chance to 'blur' their detect alignment chances and likely ruffle some feathers eyeballing the wrong person. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/24/2005 7:12 PM |
| how about issues of personal privacy. Some of the people,especially the scholars, onboard may not want there minds read for an entirely different reason so they are adamently against this sort of intrusion. This could also be a way to throw the PC off the track.Someone innocent of the crime reacts violently to even the hint of detect thoughts.
You could also have someone guilty of another crime or on the run trying his best to confound the PC so they don't find out about his sins.
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minatoman38
Underboss
1346 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/24/2005 9:29 PM |
| I think in a lot of cases these spells have saving throws and generally speaking a mindflayer has a good will save. So you can justify fudging his saves a bit in the early part of the story. Then create a feat like this...
Misleading Saves
Requirement: 4 ranks in autohypnosis.
Benefit: If an attempt to read this characters mind or intent is done in some fashion and he passes the save then he is able to project false information. There would be an opposed bluff roll to see if the falsification is detected.
Normal: A scanning character would be aware his attempt failed although not necessarily why.
Detect Good/Evil: like someone else said. Have a smattering of other evil characters onboard who are engaged in other foul but less lethal deeds. Also make the mindflayer chaotic or lawful neutral. His motive for murder could be sinister but someone less diabolical.
Detect Thoughts: only surface thoughts are detected. Provide a smattering a suspicious seeming thoughts. The mindflayer could be dedicated enough to project misleading thoughts about himself. Someone else though my have a thought that does point them back in the right direction if they read it correctly.
Zone of Truth: Isn't there a saving throw? If it is will the the mindflayer will just be another person saying they had nothing to do with it.
Augury: give cryptic responses.
Speak with Dead: He didn't see his killer or was intoxicated at the time and hallucenating something revealing but not definate.
Discern Lies: again isn't there a saving throw?
Divination: cryptic responses. Gods are allowed to be a pain.
Commune: ditto. Cryptic responses for the above reason.
Locate Object: Great. Let them find the murder weapon and evidence this way. Sooner or later they have to solve the thing. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/24/2005 10:12 PM |
| Better response for speak with dead... the assasin was under a hat of disguise and looked like one of the players.
Other than that... I agree with alot of the other solutions.
Saving throws are great things especially against relatively weak spells like zone of truth.
High bluff is also essential for an assassin who has to hang out with people afterwords.
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"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Meds
Warrior
286 Posts
Alameda, CA
| | 10/25/2005 1:05 AM |
| Personally, I'd try to design the adventure to let the PCs abilities work, otherwise I'd risk frustrating my players. E.g. Maybe they can identify the murderer with their spells if they're clever, but finding him in disguise is another matter. YMMV.
Here's a good Monte Cook article that includes advice on designing mysteries for high-level adventures:
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arch_dmonly16 | |
Have/Want List || Trade References | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 10/25/2005 6:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
OK - have you been looking at my notes or something? Get out of my head! [)]
The murderer is a Mind Flayer assassin. I'm not sure if speak with dead will work as the corpse has no head?
Mwuhahahahaha I am a Mindflayer assassin! [:0]
Some of the abilities should work (obviously) I think the true test is finding the balance that makes it difficult for the PC so that when they succeed they feel they've accomplished something.
Like it has been said Detect Thoughts, Discern Lies & Zone of Truth all have a Will saving throw. Enough passengers succeeding in these will make the spells less effective or even negligible in effect.
Detect Evil: Of course the murderer won't be the only evil person on the ship. I'd make at least one of the crew along with some of the passengers evil. Maybe even the Captain of the ship! [:0]
I also like the idea of having someone else on the ship running from the law (different reasons or similiar...hmmm).
Augury really isn't of much direct help, though I suppose the question could be 'Would it be right to arrest this person for murder' and even then they'd have to cast this spell over and over again. Divination is a better spell but still limited. Commune is the most 'dangerous' of these spells and even then there are legitimate ways around it, going cryptic being one already mentioned.
Discern Location: Sure let this one work, assuming the items in question weren't just thrown over the side of the ship, they still could have been planted on someone else.
Another two spells to possibly worry about are Planar Binding and Planar Ally. Since they could 'call in' help from a outsider to give assistance in solving their dilemma.
Murder mysteries, Gotta love 'em! [)] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1014 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/25/2005 8:14 AM |
| | Thanks for all the advice everyone. It is helping me a lot. | |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1346 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/25/2005 8:23 PM |
| Gotta know your players well too. Are they the sort that get real violent everytime the discover someone is evil.
If so things can get pretty messy pretty fast. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Liquidburn
Sergeant
944 Posts
| | 10/29/2005 12:05 AM |
| | Good luck to you with this idea. I have tried it before and it can be hard to pull off, but it's a great idea and it forces the players to do a lot of roleplaying. | |
Jason Slingerland
"Why do I have to be Mr. Pink?" | |
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Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 10/29/2005 12:10 AM |
| Hello,
I don't have too much to add, but a few points here:
1) Make sure you are prepared for spell use as has already been mentioned. Have answers for why the spells work, or what information comes up.
2) You could complicate things by making it really easy to discover the killer, but really hard to deal with that person. Maybe the local law is corrupt and protects the murderer. Maybe the local authorities will arrest the PCs for contaminating the crime scene or attempting to intervene?
3) How about having the murderer already off the ship. The struggle is not so much the mystery of who, but the mystery of where they are now?
Cheers [:)] | |
Successful Trades: 77 * Pending Trades: 0 * Bad Trades: KONG (B.W.)
Trade History * Trading Thread * Sales Thread * Winnipeg Meetingplace | |
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1014 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/31/2005 11:38 AM |
| | As an update my group did manage to figure out the murderer without resorting to calling in the heavy duty spells. They discovered (after catching the Mind Flayer in the act of killing the 2nd mate) that it had green blood. They then proceeded to gather the entire population of the ship together and one, by one, cut each person to see the colour of their blood. The Mind Flayer retreated to the cargo hold and a tense situation occured as it managed to stun or charm 3 party memebers. It made a tactical error, however, and assumed that the barbarian of the northlands was a standard weak willed version and order him to kill the party wizard (in character they have a very good relationship) this caused an automatic save against the charm which the cleric barbarian made. Calling upon a host of extra powers (including a smite ability and the Strength boost from the strength domain) the Barbarian cleric killed the creature in 2 blows. Everyone seemed to think it was a lot of fun and I was happy with the result too. Really had the party guessing for a while as the crew began coming to them with their own suspects. | |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
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