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gregreid
Warrior
276 Posts
    
 | | 10/31/2005 12:59 PM |
| | recovered topic 10673 | |
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gregreid
Warrior
276 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 12:59 PM |
| My players roll 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the low, seven times using the best 6 scores assigned as they want to.
You end up with a strong character but not that many 18s.
This has worked well for me for years.
Greg
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Champion of the Wolf
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1003 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/31/2005 1:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by gregreid
My players roll 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the low, seven times using the best 6 scores assigned as they want to.
You end up with a strong character but not that many 18s.
This has worked well for me for years.
Greg
That would seem, to me, to make characters a little too strong. I want a nice happy medium where characters have both high and low scores. I don't think you would ever see anyone with a stat below 12 in such a method. | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 1:54 PM |
| | My gaming actually just changed our rolling system and it seems to work well for us. We did 4d6 before, dropping the lowest and rerolling ones. This gave decent stats usually, but we like a little more power in our stats (we are supposed to be heroes after all). Finally, one of our group members came up with 3d6, drop one die, add 6. It raises the minimum drastically and we all seem to appreciate it. | |
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Frostbyte
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 2:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by reezel
Finally, one of our group members came up with 3d6, drop one die, add 6. It raises the minimum drastically and we all seem to appreciate it.
The average for that should be something like 13 1/2. The average for 4d6 and dropping one is about 12, if I recall correctly. That's a little higher in power than I would like.
I don't think point buy leads to everyone having an 18. Even with wizards I play usually begin with a 16. The price you pay for getting that 18 is even worse hit points, AC, and Reflex save. I generally prefer going with Dex 14, Con 14 and Int 16 than Dex 10, Con 12 and Int 18. My point is that different people choose to play more or less conservatively, and thus there is in fact some variance.
If I couldn't use point buy I would like to try a genetic approach. You determine your parent's stats (with whatever means you like) then roll d4 to see which one you inherit. A one means you get your father's stat, a two means you get your mother's, a three means you take their average, and a four means you roll 4d6 and drop one. This is kind of a "fun" way to generate stats, but you wouldn't want to make all of your characters like that.
If I ever finish making my homebrew setting and publish it, I think I will include this as a variant form of generating stats. | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 2:12 PM |
| | Your path is perhaps similar to the method I use with my players. I usually give them a fixed number that their stats can total and a max + bonus that those stats can tally up to (my norm is +6). Lets them divide and conquere as they see fit and depending on how powerful I want them to start out as I can scale things either up or down. +4 if its low tech, a bit more run of the mill type pcs and +10 for the more advanced ubber type. | |
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AngryIrish
Warrior
313 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 2:16 PM |
| | I like my heros to be powerful, so I go with the 5d6 drop the lowest two. | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 2:42 PM |
| The 2E players handbook had something like 10 different ways to determine stats. One you might try could be
Roll 10 individual d6s. Each stat starts at 8. Add the individual die rolls to stats as you see fit; however, the stats cannot go above 18, and if you can't make your total add to exactly 18, you can't have an 18.
For lower power, you could reduce the number of dice to 8 or drop the baseline stat to 7. | |
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1003 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/31/2005 3:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Frostbyte
I don't think point buy leads to everyone having an 18. Even with wizards I play usually begin with a 16. The price you pay for getting that 18 is even worse hit points, AC, and Reflex save. I generally prefer going with Dex 14, Con 14 and Int 16 than Dex 10, Con 12 and Int 18. My point is that different people choose to play more or less conservatively, and thus there is in fact some variance.
I misstated my position on that one. I don't think point buy makes everyone have 18's I do think it makes 18's too expensive to get. I want my PCs to have an 18 or two but I also want them to have an 'achilles heel' so to speak.
quote:
If I couldn't use point buy I would like to try a genetic approach. You determine your parent's stats (with whatever means you like) then roll d4 to see which one you inherit. A one means you get your father's stat, a two means you get your mother's, a three means you take their average, and a four means you roll 4d6 and drop one. This is kind of a "fun" way to generate stats, but you wouldn't want to make all of your characters like that.
If I ever finish making my homebrew setting and publish it, I think I will include this as a variant form of generating stats.
That's very clever and a good opportunity to give your character some ready made background - very interesting, thanks!
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1003 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 10/31/2005 4:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fry
The 2E players handbook had something like 10 different ways to determine stats. One you might try could be
Roll 10 individual d6s. Each stat starts at 8. Add the individual die rolls to stats as you see fit; however, the stats cannot go above 18, and if you can't make your total add to exactly 18, you can't have an 18.
For lower power, you could reduce the number of dice to 8 or drop the baseline stat to 7.
I forgot about that! I'll have to dig out my 2E PHB and look them over.
Isn't stat generation fun?
Another method I was thinking about was the default array (although I have never seen anyone take it) but with the scores 18, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8 very expensive in point buy but not likely to be over powering in play. | |
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Corim Danex
Warlord
6562 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 10/31/2005 4:13 PM |
| | On a different, but related issue, I had a DM roll for our class and race, and then had us roll the stats. It made things a bit interesting. Unfortunately, that group didn't last long (only a few sessions). The idea was, you don't choose what race you are in life, or what your talents are (loosely tied to character class). We ended up with two rogues in a party of four. But one was a dwarf and the other was a halfling. | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 7:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
quote:
Originally posted by gregreid
My players roll 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the low, seven times using the best 6 scores assigned as they want to.
You end up with a strong character but not that many 18s.
This has worked well for me for years.
Greg
That would seem, to me, to make characters a little too strong. I want a nice happy medium where characters have both high and low scores. I don't think you would ever see anyone with a stat below 12 in such a method.
My players roll 4d6 6 times dropping the lowest. They do this 3 times and pick whatever set of six they want, to be clear they do not pick and choose which of the 36 rolls they want they pick one of the 3 sets of six. It averages out but if you get a really crappy run you can just pick a different set. After they have picked there set I let them reroll the lowest number but they have to keep the reroll even if its worse.
It has worked well for the last 5 years. Most of the time there is one good stat one bad one and 4 around average.
The PC's are hero's in there world so I think their stats should be higher than average. | | | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 1:11 AM |
| I remember the last time I generated D&D characters for a game--My stats were so horrible that the DM was looking at them and going "Change that to an XX, add another point to your Dex," etc.
I've never found a method that I truly like--although I'm liking the sounds of the method suggested by gregreid. I'd probably have the player generate 3 sets and then pick one set to assign the character.
As stated elsewhere, the characters really should be better than the average commoner. Adventurers typically don't last long without a good mix of toughness and brains. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 2:26 AM |
| I use a point-buy system of my own. It's too complicated for many people, but I think it works great.
Each stat starts at 0, and has minimum and maximum (pre-racial adjustment) scores of 6 and 18. A player receives 156 units to spend, according to the following costs-per-point:
Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence: 2.25
Constitution, Wisdom: 2.0
Charisma: 1.75
So (for a simple example), a character with all stats at 12, but a Wisdom of 15, would add up to 156 units and be legal.
I like this for several reasons:
(1) It's my firm belief that people don't actually like to roll random stats, no matter how much they claim otherwise. What people like is the chance to roll high stats, combined with the chance to claim a "Do Over" if they instead roll lower than average.
(2) Although I emphasize Charisma in my game, my players still ignore it too much, and act like I'm being unfair when I make their 6 Charisma dwarves unliked by everyone they meet, or otherwise make Charisma as important as any of the other stats. By making it slightly cheaper, I reward players who take the stat.
(3) I don't mind 17s and 18s in my game, so I dislike point-buy systems on "sliding scales." In 3.5 stats are linear, unlike in AD&D ... there's no reason to make people pay geometric costs for linear benefits.
(4) This gives a total bonus of +6 or +7 (depending on how units are distibuted), which I think is perfect for a heroic, but not overpowered, game. (My Forgotten Realms character, in contrast, has a +14 total stat mods! A lot of people like that level of power, but to me it feels like everybody's stats are so high in everything, there's no immediate distinction between characters' strengths.)
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
692 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 4:01 AM |
| | A lot of the ways listed above I used at some time, but the weridest way I ever did stats was a one day game where every one roll d20's 7 times. Dropped one. I would recommend it for a serious game, but it was fun. | |
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gregreid
Warrior
276 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 7:51 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
quote:
Originally posted by gregreid
My players roll 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the low, seven times using the best 6 scores assigned as they want to.
You end up with a strong character but not that many 18s.
This has worked well for me for years.
Greg
That would seem, to me, to make characters a little too strong. I want a nice happy medium where characters have both high and low scores. I don't think you would ever see anyone with a stat below 12 in such a method.
We have had many characters begin with stats below 12. I would agree that not many have stats below 10... maybe 1.
For me that is the point. Solid survivable characters. I will have to run some numbers and see how the stats distribute. | |
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1003 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 11/01/2005 7:57 AM |
| I thank everyone for their interesting ideas on stat generation.
Wayne - how did you ever come up with that method? While complex (I would hate dealing with the quarter points) it does have a certain elegance to it - very nice (I especially like that Cha can be gotten 'on the cheap').
I think I am leaning towards the method Fry put me onto though. Start with an 8 in every stat and roll Xd6's and add them in. I was doing up a few characters last night and except for one roll with 5 ones and 3 twos it worked remarkablely well. I like it because it keeps some randomness but every character I made had at least 2 stats that were very good (16 or higher) but also didn't get 'uber' numbers in everything. The default in 2E was 7d6 but I think I am going with 9d6 since 2E wasn't known for being generous with its stats (remember the sample character they made with a 6,7,8,13,13 and a 'high' stat of 14? None of which would give any bonuses no matter what stat they were put in - yikes!).
Again thanks for all the input. If anyone has anything else they want to add please do so - I'm always open to new methods. | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1669 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 9:54 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by maijstral
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
quote:
Originally posted by gregreid
My players roll 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the low, seven times using the best 6 scores assigned as they want to.
You end up with a strong character but not that many 18s.
This has worked well for me for years.
Greg
That would seem, to me, to make characters a little too strong. I want a nice happy medium where characters have both high and low scores. I don't think you would ever see anyone with a stat below 12 in such a method.
My players roll 4d6 6 times dropping the lowest. They do this 3 times and pick whatever set of six they want, to be clear they do not pick and choose which of the 36 rolls they want they pick one of the 3 sets of six. It averages out but if you get a really crappy run you can just pick a different set. After they have picked there set I let them reroll the lowest number but they have to keep the reroll even if its worse.
It has worked well for the last 5 years. Most of the time there is one good stat one bad one and 4 around average.
The PC's are hero's in there world so I think their stats should be higher than average.
This is the method I've used for years -- you get some decent stats, but almost invariably there's at least one stat below ten, sometimes two. | |
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megamadrat
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 10:57 AM |
| Two methods I use depending on whether the game i am running is high or low power are:
Set 1 dice to 6 and roll 3d6, keeping the 2 of your choice, if you do not like the roll, drop the set dice to a 4, then a 2 and then a straight 3d6.
for low power simply do 1 set dice plus 2d6
This system is a little more powerful than normal, but really punishes greedy players as they discover that their rerolls cause them to get lower and lower scores. | |
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Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10849 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 11/01/2005 12:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Frostbyte
quote:
Originally posted by reezel
Finally, one of our group members came up with 3d6, drop one die, add 6. It raises the minimum drastically and we all seem to appreciate it.
The average for that should be something like 13 1/2. The average for 4d6 and dropping one is about 12, if I recall correctly. That's a little higher in power than I would like.
I play in this group and I like this method. What player wouldn't? I'm of the belief that heroes should have higher stats. That's why they are heroes. | |
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
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Frostbyte
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 1:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
I play in this group and I like this method. What player wouldn't?
Because the DM then throws in beefier monsters to deal with the beefy players. The only thing high stats do is penalize the players who roll low and thus don't have them.
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
I'm of the belief that heroes should have higher stats. That's why they are heroes.
Even with the standard method your character should, at least on average, end up with stats much higher than a commoner.
If you want a high powered campaign, then more power to you. (Pun intended.) But increasing player stats just causes the DM to react and bump up the challenge of encounters you face. It's the same as people cheating in computer roleplaying games and giving themselves powerful items, then finding the game too easy and creating a mod with more powerful enemies. | |
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10849 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 11/01/2005 1:14 PM |
| | But if the DM is skilled enough to create encounters that sufficiently challenge these higher powered players, then what's the problem? | |
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 11/01/2005 2:36 PM |
| | I use 4d6 dropping the lowest, but I have the players generate 7 scores and drop the lowest ability score. | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 5:05 PM |
| Choices on how to roll up characters depends alot on what type of PCs you want going in your campaign. If you are looking for the superstars then methods that result in stellar stats would be employed. If you play a middle ground type adventure you might want to limit their ability to get superstars.
A lot of DMs allow for PCs to gain additional stats through the course of the game if you one of these you migth not want your PCs starting out near max because then what is their incentive to build the character?
I've used all types of methods but have always enjoyed most having a pre-campaign character generating session where some luck is involved in getting a great character or at least getting a PC that is great in the stat you wanted. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Snappa
Sneak
77 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 7:44 PM |
| I use the point buy system in the DMG with the "tougher" option (28 points to spend). For a human character this can generate the following sets of stats:
15 14 12 12 12 10
16 14 14 10 10 10
18 12 12 10 10 8
etc
This gives the player the option to min/max their prime stat if they want at the expense of other bonuses. It also ensures that everyone starts on an even footing, and eliminates the imbalance between someone who rolls 3 16+ and someone who doesnt have a stat higher than 13.
If I'm running a game with less than 4 players, I'll bump it up to a 32 point buy to give them a bit more of an edge.
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1003 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 11/01/2005 10:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Snappa
I use the point buy system in the DMG with the "tougher" option (28 points to spend). For a human character this can generate the following sets of stats:
15 14 12 12 12 10
16 14 14 10 10 10
18 12 12 10 10 8
etc
This gives the player the option to min/max their prime stat if they want at the expense of other bonuses. It also ensures that everyone starts on an even footing, and eliminates the imbalance between someone who rolls 3 16+ and someone who doesnt have a stat higher than 13.
If I'm running a game with less than 4 players, I'll bump it up to a 32 point buy to give them a bit more of an edge.
Hi Snappa and welcome to the boards!
I've used the point buy system for some time now and just got bored of it. I really want to try something different. If anyone is interested I posted this over on EnWorld too and a fellow gave me a link to apage with, literally, every stat generation method ever used in a D&D book. It is simply amazing!
http://home.earthlink.net/~duanevp/dnd/stat_generation.htm | |
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salmander
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 11/02/2005 10:30 AM |
| In the game I am currently running I had each player assign 84 points to thier stats. No more than one 18 and nothing below 8. That is an average stat of 14. This method is very flexable depending on how strong you want the character's to be. If you want them to be weaker, only give them 78 points to assign, or give them more for your Super Heros.
This also means that everyone in the party has the same average stat score. | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 11/02/2005 1:18 PM |
| | Just be careful that "higher power" doesn't unbalance things in favor of your roll-players over your role-players. People who are not as concerned about the mechanical bits of the game will not put as much effort into it as people who don't care as much. This can create scenarios where to make "challenging" encounters, the DM has to throw really tough monsters at the party, and the less-mechanically-inclined players may find their characters unable to contribute to the fight. | |
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smilinIrish
Sergeant
908 Posts
| | 11/04/2005 4:43 PM |
| | Exactly Fry. My DM has always used 4D6 drop lowest, reroll ones, max hit die at 1st level. Roll two sets, choose which one you like. Sometimes, a fighter gets that great str and con, then the priest of a small party filling in as front row combatent gets beat up all the time, because the stuff we fight is set to challenge the fighter. | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 11/05/2005 2:58 AM |
| Our DM said ones to us roll 6d4 drop one (max 19).
That is quit interesting you get most of your time the same average as 4d6 dropping one, but your min and max are weaker | |
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