Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
    
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 11/12/2005 11:33 PM |
| Shadowlord,
I don't totally understand your post, as you are all over the place, but I will respond as I can.
1) Are you DMing or playing? If you are DMing, work on setting up the work, start small and get bigger as you have more experience. If you are playing, again, start small. The best characters are built up from nothing into Dragonslayers.
If you are DMing and playing at the same time, I don't think this is a good idea. It usually ends up with what is known as DMPC syndrome where only the DMs PC is allowed to do anything important.
2) Long time players have lots of stories about dragons and demons and stuff because they have been playing for a LONG TIME. You can't expect to walk into your first game and create interesting memories the first time. When you start playing you are likely to have a bunch of characters die on you the first few times. That is all part of the learning process of the game and can give you great memories. Character deaths are often more memorable than character triumphs.
3) For your first few times playing, play straight from the PHB. Don't even bother with a Prestige class. Pretige classes are optional and at your DMs discretion. Work with your DM for a memorable experience by faciliting the game that is, not one that you want to imagine in 10 levels.
4) If you really want to play in a high powered game, start your game with characters at 10th level or something like that. If you are only playing for the first time (or have only been playing for a short time), this can end up being a frustrating experience, however, as PCs tend to die because you are not totally familiar with their abilities.
5) I hate to say it, but in order to understand and enjoy the game you sometimes ahev to sit back and just read the rules and understand the basics of the settign you are playing. Looking for the coolest combinations of race, class and abilities can be fun for some people, but it can also prevent you from actually playing anything, as if you look hard enough you will always find something "cooler" or more powerful, etc.
I would suggest, play a basic game first. The advanced stuff will come in time.
Cheers [:)] | |
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yack
Commander
3268 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 11/12/2005 11:37 PM |
| | I'm a DM but once was a player for years(been playing since 85) and the best part was starting low with goblins and orcs and working your way up if you live too see it. Thats the best part...starting strong at the beginning...whats the point..? Grow into your character...and you will enjoy it better trust me. | |
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Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 11/12/2005 11:40 PM |
| Shadowlord,
I should add, if you are creating a game I take that to mean you are DMing. If you have players lined up, ask them what they are interested in as well. You should have fun with what you create, but a RPG is a cooperative game. Everyone has to take away something fun and enjoyable for the game to work.
Cheers [:)] | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 12:11 AM |
| I'm sorry I didn't be specific enough. I am speaking from being a player in the rpg game.
Anywho, seriously though, why is making or becoming a golem so much money. It sounds cool and I want to do it. I have my thri-kreen with an AWSOME will save for 1st level so he'll be able to survive at least 2 limbs for sure (By the time I get the right amount of 'stuff' needed)
I can see it now. An iron half golem Thri-Kreen fighter. He piosons, he bites, he has 4 attacks, no one will try and touch him.
That poison gas from the iron parts is nasty:
"-2 points of damage to fortitude and a secondary effect of death" I looked at this and thought to myself, death...hmmmm...DEATH????....DEATH??!?!?!...KICK @SS!! | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 12:58 AM |
| Well, things like golems are expensive because, look at what they can do: an iron golem has 129 HP and does massive damage, it should be expensive because otherwise every 3rd level character would go out and buy one, and then they would no longer be rare or interesting. I've noticed that the best way to ruin an idea in fantasy is to use it to much, thus fighting red dragons as large evil guys at the end of an adventure is cool, but fighting them all the time is less so (this is not true of things like goblins, the more goblins at a time, the more fun, say hello to great cleave!)
But I think in some ways your missing the point, by going for being a total destroyer of everything, your missing out on (to me) the best part of role playing, that is, role playing. Thri-kreen can't even speak right? If you stick on a few random limbs, then how weird is that? Is anybody in the party going to be able to really interact with your character? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it definitly has its downpoints. In a totally combat oriented campaign with very little roleplaying, this could actually be a very good choice, but if it's not, how are you going to identify with an insect person who replaces their limbs with bits of golem and can't talk?
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Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 1:22 AM |
| We all started at level 1 (some of us at level 0, remember that? [:P]). It's the nature of the game to start low and build to legends. If you want to jump head-long into a high-level game and you don't have the basics down well, you will be miserable. You'll have more questions than what you could contribute to the game. Where's the fun in that?
Learning to role play is like cooking a good smoked brisket: low and slow. LEarn the game, learn the mechanics, learn the role playing, learn how to make your chracters effective, and most importantly: learn the real parts of the game you enjoy, not a few ideas you came up with on the spur of the moment. | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 2:53 AM |
| ShadowLord, do you play video game RPGs...? It seems to me that you're expecting alot in a small amount of time. Video game RPGs are similar in that aspect. In few hours of game time you can gain several levels of experience in video gaming. Table top roleplaying is different. Your interactions with the other players form the game world and affect it in many ways, not like the rigid confines of a video game.
Warty Nosed Goblin hit the nail on the head. If you are a uber-PC that can't die then the game will quickly get old for yourself and your fellow players.
For me, the fun of the game exists on many levels, heroic deeds (like jumping through an open portal to save a kender from the last member of barghest pack...right DT?), heroic deaths, and the real life friendships formed through the game. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 3:13 AM |
| People have said it before and will continue saying it... you lose so much when you start at a high level. Alot of things are beyond first level characters, first level characters don't even start with enough money to buy a masterwork weapon much less become a half golemn. If it was cheap or easy, every wizard would have 20-30 of them hanging around and the bands of first level characters would just get killed left and right. Something like that is a long term goal. I had a tiefling character that wanted to become a half fiend when he was first level. By the time he was 11th level... a long time later, he was part way there. That was 10 levels to get part way.
I have been playing RPGs for 20+ years and I still look closely at the EXP totals and plan and plot out what I am going to do when my character levels.
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"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 4:40 AM |
| Some people are simply powergamers, and shouldn't be afraid to admit it. The problem is that powergaming is great for computer games but not for pen and paper games with other people. If you can't enjoy playing a LA 0 (or 1) race, then consider either joining a new campaign or just playing computer games.
That said, there are a ton of unusual races at LA +0. In the Forgotten Realms there's the Deep Imaskari. In Eberron there's Warforged. In generic DnD there's stuff like the Goliaths. Instead of playing something completely outlandish maybe you could try something merely slightly outlandish. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 9:37 AM |
| There are plenty of ECL +0 races that are interesting and orginial. As Gristlemane said, if you want a golem character then you can't go wrong with a race like the Warforged. They're prefect for beginning a low level campaign and they'll statisfy your need to play something different.
Also, take your time with this and focus on role-playing and character development. I find low level play to be one of the best parts of the game. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 9:54 AM |
| I'd like to say first off, thanks for all your input.
Second, supposedly thri-kreens can speak what I like to call *click* AND common. (It says that in the MM2 i think) | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 1:28 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zeb
For me, the fun of the game exists on many levels, heroic deeds (like jumping through an open portal to save a kender from the last member of barghest pack...right DT?), heroic deaths, and the real life friendships formed through the game.
Or, putting 3 crits into a large red dragon in two rounds while flying up the side of a volcano. [)] | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 2:18 PM |
| Gotta agree it's nice to build up in power....same campaign as Zeb and DT, I joined the campaign late so I started at 7th level. Finally got all my "combo pieces" together at 9th level....man, it was nice the first time I cut loose with all my stuff and totally explodified two equal-CR mobs in one round's worth of AoOs. [:D]
Some of the coolest stories I remember my older brothers telling about roleplaying when I was growing up, involved a very low level, low magic party fighting off things like pirates. Honestly.
edit: me fail english? that's unpossible! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12440 Posts
The G Spot
| | 11/13/2005 2:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I'm trying to make my rpg experiences fun and I can't find anything that is cheap for my character to do.
How about any of the basic PC races and classes?????
I get the impression you believe the game isn't fun if you can't play something exotic. Is this true? | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 3:27 PM |
| I don't like playing anything in the norm per say.
I would like for my character to stand out so I picked a thri-kreen.
Then I was thinking of how to make him stronger with (You guessed it)something unique and memorable, thus came the desision to want to become a Half-Iron golem thri-kreen Fighter.
There are sooooooo many possibilities with this character after this has all been done to him.
He'll have his bite.
He'll have his 4 attacks.
He'll have his poison cloud.
He'll have a killer AC.
And he'll look as cool as can be.
I would like for my characters to stand out probably because I don't like to in real life. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 3:50 PM |
| Yeah... but he will also be first level for a very long time with first level HP. So when the humans in your party are 4th level, due to your ECL you will still be first level. Your base attack will be behind the curve and you can be taken down with one good hit. There is a trade off for everything. A Half Golem Thri Keen will have an ECL of what... 7 or 8?
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"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 3:54 PM |
| | I don't like the normal chracters everyone else plays. If not thri-Kreen then what? I'm not that into playing a warforged either. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Scarecrow
Sergeant
788 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 3:55 PM |
| | I actually see this in a lot of younger players. I host games at the library, and we get alot of 11-14 year olds. After thier first game, they all want to play dragons, demons, or some sort of monster. I think it's the whole power gaming thing, as well as the influence of video games. Most of the D&D games I see them play are all about combat. It's interesting to see the younger players mixed in with the older players. The look of amazement on the kids' faces when they discover tactics or story is great. | |
I need a newcastle... | |
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CarrionCrawler
Underboss
1760 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 4:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I don't like the normal chracters everyone else plays. If not thri-Kreen then what? I'm not that into playing a warforged either.
Play what you want to play. You'll never grow if you don't! Despite what the rulebooks imply, playing a monster or something exotic isn't a bad thing. It's a challenge and something that can be a lot of fun! My third character was an air genasi fencer(fighter). I was a level behind everyone...and at times it sucked. But at times it was the best thing in the world. | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6808 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 11/13/2005 5:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I'm trying to make my rpg experiences fun and I can't find anything that is cheap for my character to do.
I don't equate fun with indestructible (for the character's level) and able to wipe out the enemy in moments every time. It takes the challenge and true fun right out of the game.
I have been interested in D&D for about twenty years. I have had a character in a previous campaign get as high as level five that I liked. In my current campaign that I am playing in, my character is up to ninth level. There are some days when we walk through whatever situations are there very easily, and nobody takes damage to speak of. I don't enjoy those sessions very much.
There is a lot more to D&D than being a superhero that can do anything.
And the value of the experiences of killing dragons and tough creatures isn't really there if it isn't something that's earned over time by developing a group of characters of people playing together who are finally able to accomplish some great task.
After playing in my group for about a year (and getting to about level nine), we faced a huge red dragon. One guy in our group was much more powerful than the rest of us against the dragon, and we pretty much watched him kill the dragon with some powerful cold spells. He dealt about 2/3 of the damage that the dragon took. The dragon went down in about 3 rounds, only getting one breath weapon off and one full round of melee attacks. My fighter basically got to the dragon and swung once (and missed). The dragon was dead. It was disappointing. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 6:04 PM |
| | I'm not rying to create some indestructable tarrasque killing charcter. I want a unique charcter with some cool powers and looks unique to boot. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Planchet
Underboss
1896 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 6:51 PM |
| quote:
I'm not trying to create some indestructable tarrasque killing charcter.
I can't believe that, since you've already said that you want to take on dragons and devils at (what I assume is) first level.
For most of us here, you create unique and memorable character through playing them, not creating them. What it sounds like you want is God mode for D&D. If that's really what you want, see if your DM will let you do it anyway (perhaps your character's parents had money). I have a suspicion that you'll probably get bored though, and the character probably won't be memorable since you wouldn't have done anything in game, your character's stats would have done everything.
One thing to note - it used to take much longer to level characters in 1st and 2nd edition. So take solace in that. | |
Chaotic neutral means never having to say you're a pony.
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 6:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I'm not rying to create some indestructable tarrasque killing charcter. I want a unique charcter with some cool powers and looks unique to boot.
Why not play a warforged warlock then? Or perhaps a mineralized psychic warrior? I would stay away from anything greater than LA +1. It can mess up the party's balance and screw your character over too. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/13/2005 7:05 PM |
| | I'll have to look through the MMs again to find an ECL charcter that doesn't have such a difference. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 7:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ShadowLord XT
I'll have to look through the MMs again to find an ECL charcter that doesn't have such a difference.
Remember that race is only part of your character. You can pick an interesting class too. Just don't ask your DM to let you play a Frenzied Berserker. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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yack
Commander
3268 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 11/13/2005 7:49 PM |
| If there isn't the chance of dying in the game ..whats the point of playing it...its like playing a video game with a cheat codes its cool at first then it loses it edge and gets repeditive(sp?)then it sucks fast!!
The best battles in D&D are the ones that you barely get out alive.(even the odd one that you died in honor)
Try a drow..?
Or a Shadovar? | |
Champion of the Peryton
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Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 11/13/2005 8:11 PM |
| Time to chime in again,
So, I am an Old School player I suppose, having started the game in the early 1980s (although not as old as some here on the boards [)]).
I have quite a few memorable and interesting characters kicking around, but none of them were anything other than the core races. In fact, none of them were anything other than Human, Dwarf, Halfling or Elf (never played a Gnome as a player, as DM, yes, player no).
The characters I remember and enjoyed playing the best were all single class (or dule classed at most). They were (and are) memorable for their deeds, not their characters (as a younger player I was really not into in-depth role playing that much).
I went through a munchkin phase when younger and can recount stories of going through the Deities and Demi-Gods manual and killing the bad guys and taking their stuff. Of course, I was DM and player at the same time, so somewhat easier to do (I was around 10-11 at the time, forgive me [:D]).
The memories were created through actual play, however, and doing things, not from just "being cool".
I have to agree with much of the sentiment here about working for your goals instead of playing god. If you want to play god, DM. PLay becomes tiresome if there are no challenges. Sure I can try to take down Lolth, but there is still risk involved in that as a regular PC (in 1E she only had like 66 hp).
OK, I am rambling now.
Play how you like, but be prepared to have to negotiate with your DM on play style. Again I will state that an RPG is a cooperative game, so everyone has to have fun (or the game breaks up). If any on PC shine s too much, things break down.
Try playing your Thri-Kreen simply as a Thri-Kreen for the time being. I think you will find that to be challengin enough to start off with.
Cheers [:)] | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 11/13/2005 11:29 PM |
| Another "old school" gamer here... in the long running campaign that we are currently playing, I am playing a human fighter/ranger/tempest. He can not do anything unusual except cut some things up very fast. He is completely different from anyone else I have ever played but that is because of how I have played him... not what is on the paper.
If you want to play something totally different look through the book Savage Species or even Libris Mortis. Play a ghoul or something. But some things to remember... everything has a trade off:
If you talk your GM into letting you play a half golem thri keen then not only are you going to be way behing the other PC's in level, but you are not going to be accepted in any social settings. And most D&D games are only half about dungeon bashing. There is alot more to role playing than roll playing.
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"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 11/14/2005 1:21 AM |
| I'm going to suggest playing what you think is fun. If it turns out to not be fun, then you can come back to this thread and read through the rest of these comments.
If it does turn out to be fun, come back and give a one-finger salute to all these grognards trying to tell you how to play your game. [:P] | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Mythmere
Sergeant
681 Posts
| | 11/14/2005 9:52 AM |
| I'm probably one of the most uber-old schoolers here, since I play using the 1e rules and started pre-1980.
I'd say, cut loose with your character and have a blast. But at this point, what you're playing is still glorified skirmish (D&D itself also started out as a glorified wargame, so you're in good company). In your mind, though, you haven't quite gotten the point of what the role playing game does, or so I surmise from your posts.
If you're playing a game that's all about combat, there's no reason to bother going beyond the skirmish game (I assume the skirmish game has a mechanism for creating a unique set of stats, or I'm wrong on this).
The RPG is quite different, and if you really want to get the most out of it, take a long time rereading some of the posts that precede this one. The RPG is about developing a character's story over time.
Rather than saying you shouldn't go ahead, I say have fun with what you're trying. But to get more out of it, read any of the Conan short stories by RE Howard (specifically the ones by RE Howard or L Sprague de Camp only), read Lyonesse by Jack Vance, read Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson (this is where the D&D troll comes from, btw).
These may help you get a feel for what the other people on the board are saying about the RPG. In general, it's interesting personalities and plans that make the RPG fun, not interesting physical attributes. | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 11/14/2005 10:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mythmere
I'm probably one of the most uber-old schoolers here, since I play using the 1e rules and started pre-1980.
I'd say, cut loose with your character and have a blast. But at this point, what you're playing is still glorified skirmish (D&D itself also started out as a glorified wargame, so you're in good company). In your mind, though, you haven't quite gotten the point of what the role playing game does, or so I surmise from your posts.
If you're playing a game that's all about combat, there's no reason to bother going beyond the skirmish game (I assume the skirmish game has a mechanism for creating a unique set of stats, or I'm wrong on this).
The RPG is quite different, and if you really want to get the most out of it, take a long time rereading some of the posts that precede this one. The RPG is about developing a character's story over time.
Rather than saying you shouldn't go ahead, I say have fun with what you're trying. But to get more out of it, read any of the Conan short stories by RE Howard (specifically the ones by RE Howard or L Sprague de Camp only), read Lyonesse by Jack Vance, read Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson (this is where the D&D troll comes from, btw).
These may help you get a feel for what the other people on the board are saying about the RPG. In general, it's interesting personalities and plans that make the RPG fun, not interesting physical attributes.
A good post and much fairer and kinder than I would have been. | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 11/14/2005 10:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
If you want to play something totally different look through the book Savage Species or even Libris Mortis.
This here might work for you. I believe Savage Species has Thri-kreen.
If you want look cool, then where exotic outfits and talk with an outlandish accent. Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. If this isn't out there enough with an ECL 0 race, then try Savage Species for options ... | | | |
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