Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
    
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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water_prophet
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 2:19 PM |
| | I found that article incredible good as well. I don't much like familiars as I have found them in the past to be more of a burden than a boon considering the dire consequences of losing one. I thought that the abilities of the staff were a bit weak, but overall it was fantastic. | |
~magnus | |
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Snappa
Sneak
77 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 10:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jai
If you hadn't guessed it, i want my mystic theurge to have staff powers as if all his class levels counted for staff powers. I think losing Turn Undead and using another feat would balance out the powers gained by continued increase in staff power, anybody else?
That's funny, I was thinking the exact same thing with regards to the mystic theurge class. I'm working up a cleric/wizard in my game that's about 1000 exp away from Mystic Theurge. My friend and I co-DM the game, and he took over a few sessions ago. I like the idea of losing the Turn Undead, and possibly requiring another feat. It really fits the concept of a mystic theurge in our homebrew world (devotees of the god of magic and knowledge) as they really have no interest in the undead one way or another, but magical item creation is something they specialize in.
That said, making any changes to a prestige class should be handled with caution. Some prestige classes verge on broken as is, and any gain in power in one aspect of the class really needs a signifant reduction in power in another.
Losing turn undead for a mystic theurge isn't that big of a drawback. Most people will take the minimum 3 levels in cleric and 3 in wizard before taking their levels of mystic theurge. Said character is not going to be able to turn any undead they'd be likely to face at their challenge level in any event.
quote:
Originally posted by water_prophet
I found that article incredible good as well. I don't much like familiars as I have found them in the past to be more of a burden than a boon considering the dire consequences of losing one. I thought that the abilities of the staff were a bit weak, but overall it was fantastic.
Agree on the burden thing, keeping the suckers alive is hard (just ask the sorcerer in my current campaign. His tiny viper has gotten very lucky a few times with reflex saves in order to avoid AE damage). The abilities are a bit on the weak side, but in comparison to a standard familiar, the staff gives the player a much wider variety of choices. Hell, just the 3 light spells and a cantrip a day is worth the price of admission.
Taking the feat that gives up a spell slot to gain 3 castings of a spell per day from the staff really doesn't suck. A wizard with a staff that could fire off three empowered Rays of Enfeeblement per day at the cost of one 3rd level spell slot would be a debuffing king.
Really, the best part about the rules option is the flavor that it adds to a caster. As I read the article, I wasn't crunching the numbers to see what the best uses of the different feats were, but rather picturing what my character's staff would look like. A vividly described staff can really make for a memorable wizard.
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 10:59 PM |
| | I remember reading through the staff-related feats in the article and thinking that they seemed awfully weak abilities for requiring feats. Except for the one that involved swapping spells for charges in the staff...that might be cool. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 11/22/2005 9:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Snappa
Hell, just the 3 light spells and a cantrip a day is worth the price of admission.
Not sure why, but i love that line. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Snappa
Really, the best part about the rules option is the flavor that it adds to a caster. As I read the article, I wasn't crunching the numbers to see what the best uses of the different feats were, but rather picturing what my character's staff would look like. A vividly described staff can really make for a memorable wizard.
Yes, that was very much my first train of thought as well. I was imagining my travelling MT adding different momentos to his staff from various sages around the world . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Fry
I remember reading through the staff-related feats in the article and thinking that they seemed awfully weak abilities for requiring feats. Except for the one that involved swapping spells for charges in the staff...that might be cool.
You wouldn't trade one spell slot for 3 castings of a spell? | | | |
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Red Ranger
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 11/22/2005 10:06 AM |
| | I already thought about buying this issue because of the staff article, sounds like a neat way to add flavor to a wizard. Is there anything else in it to make it more worth $7? I'm not that interested in the Boccob stuff. Maybe I'll pick it up. | |
Champion of the Yeti
(large uncommon please!)
Assistant to the Regional Manager | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10365 Posts
United States
| | 11/22/2005 11:01 AM |
| I liked the material in this article, but I didn't feel that it was quite equivalent to losing a familiar. I can't put my finger on it, but there seems to be a divergence in power that I can't yet account for. I thought that maybe another way to go would be to work this through feats, or as its own class feature.
Honestly, I don't see a reason why a wizard couldn't have both an imbued staff and a familiar, so I'd like to see an alternative way to acquire the imbued staff stuff.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 11/22/2005 2:51 PM |
| | Really looking forward to this issue (Arcane heavy yeah!), can't wait for my FLGS to get there copies. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
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Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 11/22/2005 3:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
I liked the material in this article, but I didn't feel that it was quite equivalent to losing a familiar. I can't put my finger on it, but there seems to be a divergence in power that I can't yet account for. I thought that maybe another way to go would be to work this through feats, or as its own class feature.
Honestly, I don't see a reason why a wizard couldn't have both an imbued staff and a familiar, so I'd like to see an alternative way to acquire the imbued staff stuff.
Dave
I was thinking about that too ... for a single feat, a familiar goes a long way ...
Perhaps you can take Extra Familiar feat or something ... basically, you add a familiar but it is less powerful then a normal familiar ... in the same way a ranger's animal is less powerful then a druids and is received later ... just a thought. | | | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 11/23/2005 9:42 AM |
| I read the article (and the issue) again. I think it's weird that there are two feats that do almost exactly the same thing (give up one spell to get a spell 3/day, and get a spell 1/day). Recharge staff could be a little broken, especially in combination with the spell "siphon" from later in the issue. Staff basically becomes a big battery at that point. :/
Overall, I found the issue very disappointing. Maybe it's just that I started picking up Dungeon a few months ago and I have been able to see a use for 95% of what's in those, but this dragon...I dunno, maybe 10% stuff I could use? | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 11/23/2005 5:34 PM |
| | Dragon is often a hit-or-miss. Each issue is a crap shoot. However, I have ignored things when they come out, then flip through and get new ideas later. | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1016 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 11/30/2005 10:13 PM |
| | I just ogt this issue and it was a great gold mine for me. I liked the Magic Schools (at least one of which is going to appear in my campaign) and the huge amount of info on Boccob I might be able to adapt to fit in with the Scarred Lands Titan Mesos (at least how his followers are organized). The imbuded staff article was excellent. One of the best articles I have seen in Dragon in a very long time. I've already adapted it into my game and one of my players has already taken up the challenge of staff making. This issue will actually have me looking more closely at future Dragon issues (I haven't bought it regularly in ages). | |
Completed Trades: Crescent Hawk, Vimes, demagogue, vidman, Eric is God, Strachan Fireblade, FungiMuncher, Dudeeehm, Shasack, gausse, kyrin, nyjastul69
Champion of the Remorhaz | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 12/01/2005 10:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
The imbuded staff article was excellent. One of the best articles I have seen in Dragon in a very long time. I've already adapted it into my game and one of my players has already taken up the challenge of staff making.
I am starting a new campaign and added staffs as the norm over familiars in it. This change actually caused a player to change class choice to Wizard for the campaign. I will be having two wizards (both with staffs i think) and a sorcerer in this campaign, so i will let you all know how the difference works itself out ... | | | |
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 12/01/2005 10:45 AM |
| | Interesting. We recently had some player deaths in our game and I think I'm going to see if one of the recently deceased will take this option. | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 10:16 AM |
| | i just got through reading the article....interesting concept. I don't think it is as powerful as an actual familiar, but I really like this concept. If one of the deceased doesn't want to take it I think one of my characters may take this later. | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 12/07/2005 10:46 PM |
| I just picked up the article today...This is the way things should have been from the get-go.
I don't know how powerful the staves are compared to familiars, but they certainly do offer up opportunities for character expansion (both Roll and Role playing).
Thanks for pointing this one out. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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