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Originally posted by reezel

I was just excited to see the return of the Giff. Man do I miss Spelljammer.

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Originally posted by Grim

how silly the Giff were. Hippo-headed warmongers. Always make me think of the cartoon Babar.

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Originally posted by Count Dooku

Giff ruled.

There was once an Issue of Dungeon/Plyhedron that had Spelljammer in it updatd for 3rd edition.

They claimed to remove all the really "stupid ideas and silly stuff" like Giff, Neogi, Crystal Spheres ect.

It was made up of just the black void of space between systems and only covered one solar system. There was an elf planet, a human planet, an aquatic planet, a lizardfolk primitive planet..There was a dwarf planet but it was conquered and colonized by mind flayers so dwarves were homeless.

Oh and of course there was a Drow planet because of drow fanyboyism...and all the neogi spider ships were given to drow.

Needless to say the flood of hatemail that poured in caused Dungeon/Polyhedron to never mention the disaster article again.

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Originally posted by Scarecrow

Thanks for the headsup. Sounds great.

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Originally posted by dariustad
Is it bad that I've already read the "Ecology of the Draconian" twice? [:D][)]

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Originally posted by reezel

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Originally posted by dariustad
Is it bad that I've already read the "Ecology of the Draconian" twice? [:D][)]

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Not at all. I plan on doing the same when I get home. Since you've already looked, my big question is do they mention the existence of the female draconians? I like that aspect of the whole story.

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Originally posted by dariustadHeck, I'm glad to simply have an article written for Dragonlance after all this time.

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Originally posted by bshugg

I vasty prefer that they update old info to 3.5 and flesh it out a bit then a pile of new "features" stuff. It seems more real to an old timer like me. I've had all I can stomach of new feats, uber prestige classes and such.

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Originally posted by Count Dooku

see thats the thing...Was Spelljammer really "silly"

Honestly other than Space Hamsters (wich by the way arent even in the campaign setting box set..they were in a Monster Manual expansion) what was so silly?

Giff were an alien race. They didnt use lazer guns or have technology like robots...just smokepowder. They were perfectly in the realm of D&D.

I never understood the whole "sillyness" that Spelljammer was labeled with.

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Originally posted by bshugg

I vasty prefer that they update old info to 3.5 and flesh it out a bit then a pile of new "features" stuff. It seems more real to an old timer like me. I've had all I can stomach of new feats, uber prestige classes and such.

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey

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Originally posted by bshugg

I vasty prefer that they update old info to 3.5 and flesh it out a bit then a pile of new "features" stuff. It seems more real to an old timer like me. I've had all I can stomach of new feats, uber prestige classes and such.

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You should check out the Dragonlance books being put out by Sovereign Press. They are really light on the crunch and heavy on the setting development. They use PrCs and feats lightly: basically as additions to flesh out the setting, not as uber-game-breaking PC options.

I'm a big fan of their materials, especially the more recent additions to the line (Age of Mortals was a little week, but War of the Lance, Towers of High Sorcery and the new Holy Order of the Stars have been awesome).

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Originally posted by Count Dooku

See thats the thing...Was Spelljammer really "silly"?

Honestly other than Space Hamsters (wich by the way arent even in the campaign setting box set..they were in a Monster Manual expansion) what was so silly?

Giff were an alien race. They didnt use lazer guns or have technology like robots...just smokepowder. They were perfectly in the realm of D&D.

I never understood the whole "sillyness" that Spelljammer was labeled with.

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Originally posted by dariustad
Yeah, they are pretty good (from what I hear). I can't justify paying cover price for any gaming book, so I've been on the lookout for reduced pricing -- mostly just flat-out waiting in recent months.

I am not a fan of the Age of Mortals. I don't see why they had to destroy Krynn again. I mean, the Cataclysm was damn nifty, but the whole theft of Krynn? pfft. Old hat. Something new, please. Not very imaginative.

I found War of the Lance for about half off. I should just nab it.

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Originally posted by IanB
Yes it really was. First of all the whole cosmology was silly. The crystal sphere/phlogiston model was silly, and the idea of squishing all the campaign settings together so Elminster could hop on a spelljammer and go visit Mordenkainen or Raistlin was silly. The idea is destructive to campaign coherency.

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On top of that, a lot of the campaign material wasted breath on dumb Star Trek jokes, giant space hamsters, etc. It is like the designers saw "D&D in space" and decided that was their cue to throw in every random weird idea and/or dumb joke they'd ever had but hadn't been able to put in the other settings.

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey

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Originally posted by dariustad
Yeah, they are pretty good (from what I hear). I can't justify paying cover price for any gaming book, so I've been on the lookout for reduced pricing -- mostly just flat-out waiting in recent months.

I am not a fan of the Age of Mortals. I don't see why they had to destroy Krynn again. I mean, the Cataclysm was damn nifty, but the whole theft of Krynn? pfft. Old hat. Something new, please. Not very imaginative.

I found War of the Lance for about half off. I should just nab it.

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Thread Highjack:
I scouped up the whole line a little while back and I'm loving it.

Many people are unhappy where the setting went with the 5th Age. I agree that the stealing the world thing was pretty out there, but I like that they've reconciled things with the War of Souls. Also getting Paladine and Tahkasis out of the way makes for a very interesting development for the setting. All the lesser dieties have come to the forefront and are battling it out for control of Krynn. It's great getting to develop Zeboim, Sargonias, Kiri-Jolith and Habakuk.

Anyway, we're running a Age of Mortals campaign right now and it's going really great. Last session one of the two wizard PCs took "the test" which took him to the tower of high sorcery in Nightlund. He passed, earning a permanent strength reduction (getting through the grove) and a really nice set of magic bracers that are going to be very important down the road. It was one of the best adventure's I've run all year.

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Originally posted by Feathers

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Originally posted by IanB
Yes it really was. First of all the whole cosmology was silly. The crystal sphere/phlogiston model was silly, and the idea of squishing all the campaign settings together so Elminster could hop on a spelljammer and go visit Mordenkainen or Raistlin was silly. The idea is destructive to campaign coherency.

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Really. Elminster can also open a gate and hop over to visit Raistlin. The Three Wizards columns in Dragon supposed that and they didn't visit each other via ship back then. Was that silly too? Of course, this ease of travel between spheres did give me an excuse to leave spells like Bigby's Crushing Hand and Mordenkainen's Disjunction in my Krynn and Forgotten Realm campaigns. And personally, I liked having the ability to link campaign settings. Planescape had the same thing, since all worlds are linked via the outer and inner planes as well. But no one ever says that's silly. I just used it in moderation and never made it so ubiquitous as to be silly (ordinary Realms citizens chartering flights to Greyhawk for instance, or tourists from Krynn stepping off the boat to Waterdeep). So it seemed fine to me.

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and the idea of squishing all the campaign settings together so Elminster could hop on a spelljammer and go visit Mordenkainen or Raistlin was silly. The idea is destructive to campaign coherency.

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Originally posted by IanB

Well, I did say I rather liked the redone version in Dungeon that cleaned it up... [:p]

EDIT: I should say that I think tinker gnomes are about the stupidest most annoying idea ever, that probably accounts for a lot of my dislike.

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey

Whahoo! Ecology of the Draconian.

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Originally posted by Ghendar

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey

Whahoo! Ecology of the Draconian.

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Yeah, but which one?
All of them maybe?

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Originally posted by dariustad

Basically, it's filled with some good info for anyone looking for some 3.5 updates for older settings. Give it a look when it hits the stands. [)]

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Originally posted by IanB

EDIT: I should say that I think tinker gnomes are about the stupidest most annoying idea ever, that probably accounts for a lot of my dislike.

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