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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
    
Walnut Creek, CA
 | | 02/08/2006 7:18 PM |
| In most of the games I've seen, gnomes and halflings tend to be getting the short end of the stick when it comes to attention as melee races. Most of the difficulty tends to arise because of their small stature and low strength. How do you think the following adjustments to these races would effect their balance as a race:
Halflings: Increase Speed to 30
Gnomes: Add Dexterity Bonus +2
Would this make these races too strong for non-melee classes? Would the change do enough to make them useful as melee characters? | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 7:24 PM |
| | Why do they need to be useful as melee races? | |
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 02/08/2006 7:37 PM |
| I think that wisper gnome is an awesome variant in lieu of standard
MM rock gnome. As soon as I read it, I instantly converted the race
for my home game.
As for halflings, I have never had a problem with the race build.
granted, the strength issues for 1/2lings hurt, but you trade it
for +2 ac, +1 ref, init and if you finesse fight you can all
it +2 to hit (+3 thrown...that is not something to scoff at).
I like the wee folk (or as we call 'em, crotch sniffers)
mark
quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
In most of the games I've seen, gnomes and halflings tend to be getting the short end of the stick when it comes to attention as melee races. Most of the difficulty tends to arise because of their small stature and low strength. How do you think the following adjustments to these races would effect their balance as a race:
Halflings: Increase Speed to 30
Gnomes: Add Dexterity Bonus +2
Would this make these races too strong for non-melee classes? Would the change do enough to make them useful as melee characters?
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 7:39 PM |
| | Don't halflings get +1 on all saves as well? | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 02/08/2006 7:52 PM |
| | They don't need to be useful as melee characters. However, having an efficient halfling barbarian or gnome paladin might encourage a little more variety in PC types. | |
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 8:03 PM |
| The mental picture that I get whenever someone mentions halfling barbarians always cracks me up. I picture frodo covered in mud gnawing on someones shin while yelling gnak, gnak...like the evil purple smurfs.......man....I think I need help.
To summarize, I don't believe in halfling barbarians. They're just a figment of other people's imagination.[:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 8:07 PM |
| I'd say almost half the gnomes and halflings I've seen in the game are either casters or they're riding on something bigger, or both. I don't know if either of those changes would affect that. I mean, the gnome +dex would make them even more attractive as spellcasters.
As the D&D developers mentioned in one of their columns (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060120a) following the height and weight charts in the PHB, gnomes and halflings aren't just like small people, they're seriously tiny. I mean, the average female halfling weighs 30 pounds. I've known cats almost that big. I don't think they're supposed to be serious melee fighters. | |
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Jefftyjeffjeff
Warrior
214 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 12:55 AM |
| I think the easiest way is to make Small and Medium creatures use the same weapon damages -- basically undo the change from 3.0 to 3.5. Scale weapon damage normally for other sizes, just make Small and Medium do the same.
Small humanoids (halfling, gnome, goblin, kobold, etc) already get a melee ding because of their Strength penalty. But if they do Medium weapon damage, then with their +1 size bonus to attack and AC, it nets out to -1 damage, but +1 AC, which is an interesting choice for a fighter.
It's like: If you could have weapon expertise on all the time, would you do it? Then be a gnome fighter. It's not exactly like that, but you get the idea.
But to try to answer your question:
Increasing halfling speed to 30 only makes them better rogues, which they're already great at. After you pile on heavy armor, a halfing fighter is only going to move 5 feet faster (armor speed penalty of 20 ft vs. 15 ft) so I don't know if the lil' guy's going to notice so much.
Gnomes getting a Dex bonus is okay, but I think it makes them too much like halflings. Plus, a Con bonus is something you'd want as a melee fighter, so don't throw that out.
In both cases, I don't think it makes them more atractive as melee fighters. It makes halfings even MORE attractive as rogues, and it makes gnomes blander and more hodge-podge (if that were possible).
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Jeff Quick, Philadelphia
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dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 4:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by B
The mental picture that I get whenever someone mentions halfling barbarians always cracks me up. I picture frodo covered in mud gnawing on someones shin while yelling gnak, gnak...like the evil purple smurfs.......man....I think I need help.
To summarize, I don't believe in halfling barbarians. They're just a figment of other people's imagination.[:D]
I don't know. I had a Gnome Sorcerer/Barbarian once that was absolutely crazed. One of the silliest and most destructive characters I ever invented. Heck, he even volunteered to be shot out of a catapult INTO a castle our party was involved in laying siege to (bad guys). No, he didn't make it to a window out of chance. He made full contact with the wall, but a spell minimized the damage. However, the fall straight down onto three guards did a bit more hurt (and killed the guards outright -- cheap arrow fodder!). Then, all he did was pop up, limp around, and, well, fireball everything that moved--good thing it was night! Nothing could kill him that day! | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 4:36 AM |
| You're ignoring the fact that being small is an all-round advantage in D&D. A boost to AC, bonuses to hide, a bonus to hit...One of the best tanks I've ever seen in D&D is a Gnome fighter who goes the expertise/defence route.
Halflings are already the second most powerful race in the PHB (behind Dwarves, who honestly get so much that they're right up there with Warforged as being LA +0.9), having a bonus to dex and +1 to ALL saves. And Gnomes don't need another stat boost, they already have +2 to the most important stat of all. | |
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Elucidus
Skirmisher
30 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 7:09 AM |
| I agree that whisper gnomes can put enough of a change on regular gnomes to make them even more fun to play for a melee/rogish character.
I am currently playing a halfling cleric, but he is far from a melee fighter. | |
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ilarue
Underboss
1259 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 10:32 AM |
| | I agree that it’s the weapon size hit that discourages playing melee orientated gnomes and halflings. Once they get to high enough levels it doesn't matter too much, but initially the reduced damage discourages people from playing them. | |
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Aramus
Warrior
181 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 10:39 AM |
| | plus they are so much fun to play | |
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stonefro2000
Sergeant
465 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 4:15 AM |
| | halfling and gnomes make great rangers, bards, rouges, scoreccers,wizards, and clerics. let the half-orc do the heavy lifting, halfling and gnomes are the brains and glue of the party. | |
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