Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
    
New York
 | | 02/19/2006 11:17 PM |
| What can and cannot be a familiar for a wizard or a sorcerer?
I had a player ask if his familiar can be a Wolf. I told him no.
The PHB gives examples for familiars like Cat, Toad, Raven, Tiny Viper, Owl, Ferret.
Yet I cannot find where it says what animals can and cannot be chosen.
Theres gotta be some game rule printed that says you can pick a Wolf, Bobcat, Falcon or other more combat oriented creature..I just cant find it.
Thanks for any help with this. | |
Champion of the Skulk
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 02/19/2006 11:58 PM |
| I believe the available familiar options are keyed to the Wizard's/Sorcerer's size. So a medium-sized creature can only have something two (or three?) sizes smaller than herself: a tiny viper, tiny earth elemental (using the expanded familiar options from Tome and Blood and elsewhere), a pseudodragon, etc.
I would assume that a Large spellcaster *could* acquire a wolf as a familiar, assuming he/she/it was of high enough level.
Of course, I didn't verify any of this in my sourcebooks, so I could be completely off base here. . . [:)] | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 12:15 AM |
| I believe familars are also based on the powerlevel of the wiz/sor. Since most of them get familars at 1st level you don't want a familar more powerful than any member of the party, this is also why you can't take the improved familar feat until 5 level and some of the improved familars aren't avalible until higher than that.
What is needed is a more scaleable familar, They are fine at 1st level but about 4th or 5th they start getting weaker,relativley speaking, that the rest of the party. Most games I play you don't really see the familar much beyond 7th level except in a pure roleplaying setting.
As a DM you can make anything a familar if you want you just need to be aware of the effect on the game as a whole. You don't want your wizards familar showing up the fighter. [)] My rule of thumb is the CR or HD for a new familar should be lower than the wizards level. I would also disallow any familar that had a gamebreaking or disruptive ablitiy. | | | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/20/2006 12:32 AM |
| Per the SRD:
The list in Table: Improved Familiar by Alignment presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar. Nor is the master’s alignment the only possible categorization. For instance, improved familiars could be assigned by the master’s creature type or subtype, as shown in Table: Improved Familiar by Type/Subtype.
This leaves what constitutes a "familiar" completely up to the DM (whether or not you take the Improved Familiar feat). Since wolves and bobcats would exceed the "same general size and power" as anything on the standard familiar list you'd have to take the Improved Familiar feat to obtain something like that.
As a DM I would disallow anything that can be found on the Animal Companion and Alternative Animal Companion lists in the PHB as this muddies the flavor of Druids and arcane casters. Familiars ought to be something rather simple to maintain (wizards tend to be forgetful) or somewhat otherworldly (Small Elementals or Imps). | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 12:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Yet I cannot find where it says what animals can and cannot be chosen.
If you want something not on the list, you have to take the Improved Familiar feat.
[quote]Originally posted by dagonet
I would assume that a Large spellcaster *could* acquire a wolf as a familiar, assuming he/she/it was of high enough level.[:)]
DMG pg. 203 has alternates for Huge masters of larger. (And smaller.) A storm giant wizard with a human familiar would be very amusing. | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/20/2006 12:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gristlemane
DMG pg. 203 has alternates for Huge masters of larger. (And smaller.) A storm giant wizard with a human familiar would be very amusing.
If an Ice Mephit has intelligence 12 why couldn't a Storm Giant have a human familiar? [:P]
Storm Giant: Familiar, go scout the area ahead.
Familiar: ...mutter...mutter...have to do all the grunt work around here...treats me like some sort of pet...just wait until I can cast Meteor Swarm.... [:D] | |
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Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 11:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tactician
The three times I have played a sorcerer I always chose the toad. +3 HP is nice.
I find the bonus Fort Save of the Rat to be the best familiar benefit. That bonus is a life saver at high levels when the bad guys will aim their Fort save or die effects at the party's arcane caster.
As to this topic, I think zenthrus nailed it: wolves are not of the same general size and power as the other familiars on that list and therefore should not be allowed. However, a small dog, monkey, fox, racoon, etc. would all make fine choices as familiars. A while back there was a Dragon magazine article that listed a few alternative familiars. The small dog was there (it granted a bonus on Sense Motive checks) but I can't remember the rest of the list. To gain a wolf familiar you'd need the Improved Familiar feat. I believe this is explicitly stated in one of the "Complete" books, perhaps Complete Arcane or Complete Warrior (there's a picture of a gnome spellcaster with a Wolf familiar).
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 2:48 PM |
| As some others have states the non-standard familiar rules are in either Tome & Blood or the Complete Arcane (depending if you've bumped to 3.5). As a DM and a player I've experienced both spectrums and if you the DM would allow your player a wolf familiar I'd ask these;
- does the familiar choice fit in line with the 'flavor' of the PCs character? If he's playing a studious/bookish wizard and wants a wolf I'd balk. If he's a sorcerer that's lived on the outskirts of society or wandered the wild experimenting with his powers then sure.
- has the PC taken the Improved Familiar feat? And what approx. level would a wolf fit with? (examples in either book)
From a player's perspective I play a wizard(evoker)/elemental savant with a small fire elemental as a familiar in one campaign and in another I've got a Fighter/Sorcerer with a falcon familiar. Again just depends on if it fits the flavor of the PC.
Another thing I've done as DM if my player wanted to take something non-standard is spend a few of his skill points for something appropriate to taking a 'wild' animal as a companion. Handle Animal, Know Nature etc. For the Fighter/Sorcerer example I listed above I've got some ranks in Handle Animal, Perform and Profession Falconeer to go with the odd choice. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 4:56 PM |
| | This is also a list in complete warrior of more combat oriented familiars that you have to take a feat to get (Winter Wolf is on there for example). | |
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 02/20/2006 9:52 PM |
| | So I suppose the bottom line is this: If it would actually be useful to you and your party in combat situations, you can't have it as a familiar. [:p] | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 02/21/2006 10:20 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
So I suppose the bottom line is this: If it would actually be useful to you and your party in combat situations, you can't have it as a familiar. [:p]
Do you really think that's what a familiar is for? I'd argue a familiar is best used for scouting, guarding, and role-play situations (having a raven familiar delivery a warning message is very cool and effective IMO).
Do wizards and sorcerers really need a combat boost beyond their arcane spells? I don't think they do.[)] | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 02/21/2006 10:42 AM |
| Is there any hard rules listed on what can and cannot be a familiar without having any Improved Familiar or any familiar related feats?
Does it have a size requirement? A hit-dice requirement?
I cant find anything like that. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 02/21/2006 11:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Is there any hard rules listed on what can and cannot be a familiar without having any Improved Familiar or any familiar related feats?
Does it have a size requirement? A hit-dice requirement?
I cant find anything like that.
I did some rooting through the books and couldn't come up with anything concrete black/white for size requirement or HD requirement. The below is some of the verbal from the SRD;
Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: If the creature’s type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).
The list in the table above presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar. Nor is the master’s alignment the only possible categorization. For instance, improved familiars could be assigned by the master’s creature type or subtype, as shown below.
I'd say if you use the table guide from the SRD/Tome & Blood/Complete Arcane you as the DM would have freedom to allow/disallow at your discretion. The big difference inbetween the offered list of acceptable familiars and the ones you list is that they're more 'feral or wild' in comparisson to the 'domesticated, used to people, or otherworldly contact' of those WoTC lists in their tables.
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 02/21/2006 5:00 PM |
| | All of the "standard" familiars are animals with less than 1 HD. I would use that as a general guidline. With improved familiar feat, you can get almost anything, you just need to be high enough level to get it. | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 02/21/2006 6:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Does it have a size requirement? A hit-dice requirement?
No, because those are actually pretty poor ways of judging the usefulness of a creature. To wit, if it were we wouldn't need Level Adjustment(s). I'd just use the existing monsters listed in the feats. Something along the power level of a wolf would be fine too. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 2:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
So I suppose the bottom line is this: If it would actually be useful to you and your party in combat situations, you can't have it as a familiar. [:p]
Do you really think that's what a familiar is for? I'd argue a familiar is best used for scouting, guarding, and role-play situations (having a raven familiar delivery a warning message is very cool and effective IMO).
Do I think that's what a familiar is for? Of course not--hence the tongue-in-cheek smiley. We have familiars in D&D because they're archetypal to the Fantasy genre, and as you mentioned, that role is typically one of a scout and/or conveyer of spells, voice, etc. I brought up combat because that was how Count Dooku started the thread.
Cheers,
Dagonet | |
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
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