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Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
    
 | | 03/07/2006 2:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kunimatyu[i/]Have you ever looked at the Eberon setting?
No I've actually quit buying supplements for campaign specific worlds. I sort of lost interest after the Forgotten Realms got so crazy with the world altering events that occured with more and more regularity. With each new publication the campaign I was running became less and less compatible with the preconceptions that new players came to my game with. I found it easier to just run my home campaign as a home brew, albeit with liberally plundered material from other sources.
That said Eberon sounds entertaining. And I find it funny the similarities between it and my home campaign. Namely the aforementioned Hobgoblin Kingdoms/Empires, surface dwelling Drow who are not necessarily Lloth worshipers, skyships (although I've been usig derigibles and only in the hands of Wind Elves)and a slightly more technological aspect to the setting. I wish I'd thought of the lightning rail, and I may try to bring in the warforged since it looks like i'll have minis for them and they are not so different than the Neogi spawned cyborgs I'm so fond of. I would play here, but my hard earned dollars now go almost exclusively to minis. A play device I avoided for years.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Thenameless
No, no, no. This is beautiful stuff man, and very well put. Your point about an evil society being able to exist answers a lot of people's questions about how people like Stalin, Pol Pot, and Hitler were able to stay in power to commit their atrocities. Indifference, and a fear of opposing the powers-that-be would be two big reasons.
As far as new monster and villains overshadowing the old, it's unavoidable because of the business aspect of things.
You've listed three real world sociopaths that are ideal for mining story to enhance a RPG for the foundations of evil. All three could be applied to any of the Humanoid races chosen out for this thread.
Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot are excellent examples of evil Headmen. Though I would place Pol Pot in a different catagory than Stalin or Hitler, despite the fact that his actions were equally despicable.The actions of the first two plunged the world into a world war that ran hot for a decade and cold for nearly a half century. To my mind Hitler edges out the other two predicated on the fact that he transcended ethnic cleansing and engaged in full scale genocide, and did it in regard to multiple ethnic groups (including one group that he was in fact a member of). Where he is notable is that not only was he lacking in any identifiable moral fiber, he surrounded himself with people that were as bad or worse than himself. Evidenced by the realization that the Death Camps and the Nazi's "Final Solution" weren't even his idea, though were given form by his rhetoric. Stalin on the other hand killed more people, though Stalin's true crime was incompetence and overreaching ambition. Hitler propelled himself into the position of Fuhrer, with help from supporters. Stalin rode the coattails of Lennin until the revolution had fully taken hold then killed his mentor and assumed the reins of power. Once entrenched in his position he surrounded himself with incompetents and syncophants and removed any up and commers with any real talent for management or leadership as they would inevitably be a challenge to his own position. More than a few of his cronies engaged in much the same thing. This instilled a national practice that retarded personel development. More Russians died from managerial incompetence than any concerted effort to commit mass murder. The result was no less evil however. There is a stong historical connection between Hitler and Stalin, their mutual rise to power is almost a mirrored timeline. The succeses they shared in their meteoric rise to prominence is to some degree dependent on one another. Two seperate nations, two seperate leaderships, two seperate paths,both exoriably tied to one another. Both led to calamity for the peoples involved. Both left scars still visable on their respective national psyche.
My first "Evil Empires" were patterned on the dynamic of Nazi Germany and early Communist Russia. Two civilazations that became progresively more evil as they competed with one another. I used Hobgoblins and Humans. Humans because I wanted players to realize that being human did not preclude being as evil as a "monster".
Pol Pot is an example I'm using now, to a limited degree. Pol Pot was a product of the ultimately self defeating, later years communist revolution. The result of this was an "ends justify the means" mentality. Pol Pot's crime was Mass Murder. He did not intend such large scale carnage at the offset however. He had an idea, to turn Cambodia into an agricultural power house, which would be good for his country. This idea was predicated on some faulty assumptions however. Namely that the ancient Khmer Kingdom was such a powerhouse, producing rice at unequaled levels. So he retasked the entire population to rice production. He then proceded to work those people to death. Again mismanagement is the real evil here. It was not until the death totals reached into the hundreds of thousands did the rest of the world begin to wonder what had happened. A good idea, evil execution.
There is alot of history to mine for an evil civilazation. Julius Caesar and Rome as a whole commited atrocities that equaled anything done in the twentieth century. Also the period that led from feudal Japan in the 1850's to industrial Japan in the 1930 and 40's offers some interesting insights how a nation will often lose it's moral compass in the act of reinventing itself to keep current with a changing world.
To my mind this is where RPGs stand out in modern entertainment experience. Much like television they can range from the "hack-n-slash" variety to the far more entertaining "grand epic". I'm not preaching that DMs should use their games to give moral lessons, but rather provide a vehicle where players can create a moral lesson for themselves. That is a unique experience and one no film, book, show, or video game will ever be able to approach.
Regardless of what race you as the DM choose as an adversary it's how much you invest in it that makes it memorable. Somewhere out there is a DM whose players are terrified of pixies. Not because pixies are great adversaries but because that DM is a ruthless, inventive, cold hearted bastich. He knows how to make a two foot tall faerie scary. I'd like to meet that guy. There is some interesting information in this thread, it sheds light on the concept of monster "traction". | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 3:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Pale Rider
from the Scarred Lands setting Asaathi - I just got their race book (Secrets of the Asaathi) and am blown away by the depth they gave these snakemen. The authors state in the foreward that they wanted more than 'guys in snake suits' and boy did they deliver!
Don't run across many Scarred Lands players but I love the Asaathi as well. Reminds me of Yaun-Ti but with several different twists that give them a whole new feel. Really nasty, got to love it! | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 4:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
Well, the title says it all. And I don't means giants or polymorphed dragons or stuff like that. Nor do I mean the traditional PC races in the Player's handbook. I mean the "monster" races. Which one do you like to throw at your players, and why?
I love the traditional "Humanoid races" like orcs, gnolls, goblins, and especially bugbears and kobolds, and as a DM I portray them as actual races rather than mobile XP and treasure delivery platforms.
One thing I despise is "furry" races, especially cat ones. The exception to this is the aforementioned gnoll and the lizardman. I'll take a dozen good-aligned drow rangers over a single catman of foxwoman any day of the damned week. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 4:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Prince o the Raven Banner
Hobgoblins;
Hobgoblins are top tier in my homebrew world. PotRB's post above gave some really solid reasons as to why I view them more favorably then say Orcs. Actually if anyone played/plays in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting they've got hobgoblins as a major nation and player types that touch two distinct branches of their racial tree as well as half-hobgoblins.
Kalamar was out in print long before Eberron and its spin of a mighty hobgoblin empire fallen prey to outer plane influence and internal strife but both settings do a wonderful job of spinning the race in a new and different aspect while keeping the base Monster Manual entry flavor. While the bulk of hobgoblin society has something of caste, LE feel. It's very easy to implement and tweek the race to allow for fringe tribes, outcasts and such.
In my homebrew world hobgoblins are a wide spread race much like humans. I've three distinct countries of hobgoblin power. The first are very focused, 'civilizied' types who are major players in slave trade, shipping etc. The second group are more along the lines of the atypical hobs who associate with bugbears and goblins as fringe tribes in the wilds/hills. The third is a more plains, nature orientated folk who sport Shamans, Rangers and Druid types.
Good stuff and a great topic ΖD] | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 4:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by devasque
Don't run across many Scarred Lands players but I love the Asaathi as well. Reminds me of Yaun-Ti but with several different twists that give them a whole new feel. Really nasty, got to love it!
I wrote the book on Slitheren. Literally. [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Kepler
Sneak
63 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 6:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Prince o the Raven Banner
Hobgoblins;
*The original Monster Manual had a picture where the Hobgoblin was dressed like a samurai (way before OA) that image stuck.
Yes, that was a good picture. I also like the pig-men orc from the that book. I would love to see some minis based on both of those pictures. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 10:12 PM |
| | I've always had a soft spot for Bugbears. Always wondered why they didnt ever have more civilization. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 11:28 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
I've always had a soft spot for Bugbears. Always wondered why they didnt ever have more civilization.
'Cuz "civilization" is for the WEAK! [:P]
I just picture bugbears as being waaaay too ADHD to worry about civilization. They're sorta like the brother-in-law that sleeps on your couch, eats your food, and "borrows" money every now and then, but feels no real need to contribute to the household. That's how bugbears are in goblinoid society.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 12:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
One thing I despise is "furry" races, especially cat ones. The exception to this is the aforementioned gnoll and the lizardman. I'll take a dozen good-aligned drow rangers over a single catman of foxwoman any day of the damned week.
Is that "in general" or "all inclusive"? I'm just curious as I know that every week there's another cat/fox race over at the WotC boards (and I avoid those threads, threads concerning Drow, and typically any thread based on vampires for reasons of my own sanity).
But even I, with my extreme dislike of cat-people, fox-people, et al have my own homebrew race of anthropomorphs. Despite my dislike for them, one of the prominent characters for said homebrew is an anthropomorph. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
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Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 3:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
I just picture bugbears as being waaaay too ADHD to worry about civilization. They're sorta like the brother-in-law that sleeps on your couch, eats your food, and "borrows" money every now and then, but feels no real need to contribute to the household. That's how bugbears are in goblinoid society.
JIM
aka kyrin
This may well be the most perfect portrayal of a Bugbear, ever. Dead on. | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 6:42 AM |
| I'd have to go with kobolds:
* They are continuously underestimated by PCs; respect is earned after being forced to retreat because of either overwhelming numbers or enhanced with rogue or sorcerer levels.
* They are very resourceful, sneaky, and true survivalists
* Their small size makes them perfect for ambush tactics and guerrilla warfare.
I fell in love with these guys after reading an article in Dragon Magazine called "Tucker's Kobolds." I then created my own version of kobold killers. I'd stack a comparable unit of kobolds against any group of PCs any day. [)] | |
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Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 9:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by A Can of the Cave Beer
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
One thing I despise is "furry" races, especially cat ones. The exception to this is the aforementioned gnoll and the lizardman. I'll take a dozen good-aligned drow rangers over a single catman of foxwoman any day of the damned week.
Is that "in general" or "all inclusive"? I'm just curious as I know that every week there's another cat/fox race over at the WotC boards (and I avoid those threads, threads concerning Drow, and typically any thread based on vampires for reasons of my own sanity).
But even I, with my extreme dislike of cat-people, fox-people, et al have my own homebrew race of anthropomorphs. Despite my dislike for them, one of the prominent characters for said homebrew is an anthropomorph.
In general. For the most part as long as a player has the RP chops to pull it off and the characetr brings something to game (and of course as long as it is a viable race for the setting) I'm not going to ban a race cos of my own personal dislike for it. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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