Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
    
 | | 02/25/2006 8:03 PM |
| Check out the stats for the celestial bison, a NG creature on the summon monster III list.
Am I nuts, or is it way more powerful than anything else on the list? (At least in terms of combat.) | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/25/2006 9:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wayne
Check out the stats for the celestial bison, a NG creature on the summon monster III list.
Am I nuts, or is it way more powerful than anything else on the list? (At least in terms of combat.)
M bison's a bad guy? [:P]
Bison is arguably the best melee combatant from the summons. Personally I prefer the Hellhound. Better AC and it's fire breath is just nasty. | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 02/25/2006 9:32 PM |
| Being from Manitoba I've wanted a Celestial Bison mini since Aberrations. [:)]
I thought we'd get one in Angelfire. Aberrations had the Celestial Black Bear and Deathknell the Celestial Dire Badger representing LG and CG summons from the same list. NG would be the Bison. Oh well.
It is pretty tough for it's summon level though. | | | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 02/25/2006 11:21 PM |
| Ok, funny story time.
I play a NG Dwarf Cleric in a campaign that has lasted about 2 years. We played it every sunday for about 4 months, but then the DM had his second child so we only play it about once every two or three months now. In any case, in one wizard tower we were faced with a room of 5 foot squares. There was no map or any hint available to us to get accross them and the fly spell, and others like it, were not functioning. We had to walk.
I summoned four Celestial Bison, since they had a decent amount of HP, to traverse the room for us. One by one they set off traps. By the third bison we had figured out the safe way across the room, except for one final choice. The bison chose incorrectly and set off a meteor swarm spell. Killed about 1/3 of the party, but that fourth bison survived. Kinda wonder, if it had been real, what that poor fourth bison woulda been thinking. [:p] | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 1:12 AM |
| It's definitely a favorite summons for the cleric in my game. Although, to preserve the Greek flavor of my campaign, I changed it to a Celestial White Bull.
We still use the Dire Boar mini, however. [:D]
Summon Monster III in general represents a quantum leap in power for the spell. Can't wait for my conjuror to reach 5th Level...
JIM
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Thenameless
Warlord
12483 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 02/26/2006 2:26 AM |
| | Yes, the bison's the favourite for our cleric as well. | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 1:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid
In general I am not a big fan of summoned monsters, they just seem to weak to do much. However, i've never really played a character high enough to use the really high lvl summoning spells. sometimes, however, they do have their uses. [:p]
For a conjurer, take the instant summoning variant from Unearthed Arcana and get Augment Summoning and you are good to go. Conjuration not only can do a descent amount of damage, but like some people have said, they can do a great job of springing traps, drawing attacks and so forth.
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/26/2006 2:16 PM |
| It's more efficient just to buy a flock of sheep and herd them into the dungeon [:P]
Or hire a gnome named Nodwick [:D]
The grand irony of summoned monsters is in the campaigns that I've run many a BBEG has been taken out with a nearly impossible (roll of 19-20)
attack by a Celestial Badger. Black dragon...dead. Drider...dead. Green dragon...dead. It's a little disheartening when the Celestial Badgers kill of the monsters [:(]
High level summon spells are a little sick. Couatls and Slaads are my favorite high-level summons. | |
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jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 8:15 PM |
| but woudn't a good character be kinda disturbed by the blatant unwholesomeness inherent in summoning something just to kill it ? ? ?
[)] | | | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/26/2006 8:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jai
but woudn't a good character be kinda disturbed by the blatant unwholesomeness inherent in summoning something just to kill it ? ? ?
[)]
That's why sheep herding is better [:D] | |
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thedip
Sergeant
737 Posts
| | 02/27/2006 6:02 AM |
| Summoning creatures is a great way to deal with high level monsters as they don't have any problems with spell resistance etc.
For example:
Enzo the wizard casts (enter spell name here) at Bogrun the Drow Warrior but has no effect because of spell resistance/save.
Turtle the druid casts (augmented summon) summon celestial bison at Bogrun and watches him being trampled to death!
I know which I would prefer.
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 02/28/2006 1:25 AM |
| | I still say the Summon list mini we need is the Celestial Giant Stag Beetle. Those things pack a mean punch. | |
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smilinIrish
Sergeant
913 Posts
| | 03/02/2006 12:38 AM |
| | The thing I noticed about this is that all the other N or G creatures on the III level summons list are 3 HD creatures, and the bison is a 5 HD creature. That is the main thing that makes him better, especially when adding the celestial template (it gets better on a creature of 5 HD and up. If you drop him down to 3rd like the rest, he's about the same. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 5:41 PM |
| Okay, so my conjuror has just reached 5th Level, and of course took Monster Summoning III as one of her spells. She also has the Augment Summoning feat, which gives a +4 to STR and CON for summoned critters. So when she summons a Celestial Bison, it looks a little like this:
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 10, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4
Hit Dice: 5d8+25 (47 hp)
Full Attack: Gore +10 melee (1d8+12 damage)
Parlez-vous OUCH!
Needless to say, I can't wait to summon THIS bad boy! [:D]
I wonder if the inclusion of the bison in the MS III tables was a mistake they just didn't correct?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 7:37 PM |
| I don't feel like the bison is out of line far enough to worry about. When compared to the combat standouts from the summon monster IV list, I think it is clearly weaker. (Example: howler, fiendish dire wolf.) It is a little stronger than most of the other III options, certainly, although I think the fiendish ape compares reasonably well (and has the advantage of a climb speed) and there are still times you'll be summoning other stuff from the list, like when you need a flyer or aquatic guy or something that can do elemental damage. Also if I may direct your attention to the fiendish Huge monstrous centipede in the corner - yeowch!
Given that, it doesn't seem too problematic to me coming out of a spell slot that could otherwise give you a fireball or dispel magic.
The really, really bad mistake they made in the 3.0 version was the celestial dire bear in the summon monster VI slot. The bison I don't think is in that same class of "WTF." | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 9:01 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
It is a little stronger than most of the other III options, certainly, although I think the fiendish ape compares reasonably well (and has the advantage of a climb speed) and there are still times you'll be summoning other stuff from the list, like when you need a flyer or aquatic guy or something that can do elemental damage. Also if I may direct your attention to the fiendish Huge monstrous centipede in the corner - yeowch!
Given that, it doesn't seem too problematic to me coming out of a spell slot that could otherwise give you a fireball or dispel magic.
Yes indeedy. Third level spells are really where casters start to come into their own. Now where's that Ring of Wizardry III? [:D]
JIM
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:46 AM |
| | Which is one of the reasons we need a Clestial Bison mini, because he is used a lot in RPG. I've seen it summoned a lot personally. | |
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Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 03/11/2006 2:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
Which is one of the reasons we need a Clestial Bison mini, because he is used a lot in RPG. I've seen it summoned a lot personally.
And I never have. Interesting no? | |
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CarrionCrawler
Underboss
1760 Posts
| | 03/11/2006 11:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
Which is one of the reasons we need a Clestial Bison mini, because he is used a lot in RPG. I've seen it summoned a lot personally.
That's so cool! I've only gotten one described to me in the game, but your DM can actually summon one?!
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