Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
    
 | | 03/13/2006 10:31 AM |
| I'm going to be playing a caster class for the first time ever here in our next campaign, and I have questions/concerns about this feat.
Now I don't have the exact words in hand but is what I'm gathering from this feat true? I can take this feat (as a starting feat even) and use it to cast spells at a higher level than what I could normally. Meaning that as a Cleric (the class I'll be playing) I can use heighten spell to cast a heightened version of Summon Monster I, i.e I can instead cast Summon Monster IX, and cast it with no drawbacks. Or am I interpreting it wrong, because to me that seems a tad bit overpowered.
Thanks in advance for any and all comments1 [:)] | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
|
devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/13/2006 11:20 AM |
| Interpreting wrong - all the spell feats are great but you have to be able to cast a spell of the 'increased' slot level before you can cast the lower level spell with the feat adjustment.
Hence, 1st level caster = no higher spell slots then level 1 spells, you get to 3rd/4th level caster you can start using the feats that increase by 1 slot. 5th/6th level and you can start using feats that increase by 2 slots etc.
Hope that helps! | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/13/2006 11:31 AM |
| No it doesn't work like that. What it allows you to do is put a lower level spell into a higher level slot and the spell is considered that level for the level dependent parameters. For example Charm Person is a first level spell the DC for it 10+1+ relevant ability modifier, not so good at higher levels. If you have access to third level spells, you can Heighten CP by putting it into a 3rd level slot and the DC would be 10+3+ ability mod.
Note that a spell can always be put into a higher level slot, but it's DC and such don't normally change, only when they're heightened. Does that make any sense? | |
| |
|
Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 03/13/2006 1:29 PM |
| | Ah alright, that makes much more sence. If it wasn't my original interpretation, this is what my second guess would have been. Thanks for clearing it up. | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/13/2006 1:36 PM |
| | It's a decent choice for a MM feat. It's primary uses are to raise the DC of spells and to raise the efective level when you think you may need to. Such as putting a Fireball into a 4th level slot so it can overcome Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. | |
| |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 5:46 PM |
| | Yea I've never actually seen it used. To me, its too specific and you dont always get enough out of it for it to be worth it. But then again, other ppl might like the fact of being able to use a Fireball against a Lesser GoI. My PC's would just use a higher level spell.. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|
reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 8:07 AM |
| | I used it pretty heavily with my gnome illusionist. Phantasmal Killer is one of those spells just begging for a save DC insrease. | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 9:15 PM |
| | I dont know a lot about illusions, but werent there higher level spells that would do the same thing or better? And they would have a higher DC. I mean most of the time it just seems better to pick a higher level spell, than upping a lower level one. I'm sure there's a few times it isnt, but for the most part I think it would be better. Now maybe a Rod of Heighten spell would be nice or something, dunno if I'd want to use the feat for it tho.. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|
reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 8:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
I dont know a lot about illusions, but werent there higher level spells that would do the same thing or better? And they would have a higher DC. I mean most of the time it just seems better to pick a higher level spell, than upping a lower level one. I'm sure there's a few times it isnt, but for the most part I think it would be better. Now maybe a Rod of Heighten spell would be nice or something, dunno if I'd want to use the feat for it tho..
As far as I know Phantasmal Killer is the only Insta-Death spell in the PH for Illusion. But besides that, it just had the kind of flair to it that my character loved. Also the rod of Heighten spell would have been great for it but it did not exist then since it was 3.0 | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/16/2006 10:14 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
I dont know a lot about illusions, but werent there higher level spells that would do the same thing or better? And they would have a higher DC. I mean most of the time it just seems better to pick a higher level spell, than upping a lower level one. I'm sure there's a few times it isnt, but for the most part I think it would be better. Now maybe a Rod of Heighten spell would be nice or something, dunno if I'd want to use the feat for it tho..
I agree, I would just use a higher level spell. I could see corner cases where it would be better to heighten a spell. I've played a number of arcane casters and have never picked that feat. | |
| |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 3:31 AM |
| | Me either..I just havent found it as useful as just choosing a higher level spell. I'm sure it *could* come up where you'd want to use a lower level one with a higher DC, but I cant think of one right off the top of my head. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|
Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 03/17/2006 5:39 PM |
| My only problem with Heighten Spell is the wording.
'The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.'
The way I use(d) it was in conjunction with other MetaMagic feats, so that a Maximized Fireball would be a sixth level spell rather then a 3rd level spell in a 6th level slot. The wording for the feat could allow you to do this.
But some think that it would then require a 9th level slot instead, but this doesn't fit with the wording of the feat (at least they way I read it). If fact where every other feat stats an increase to the spell this one does not, it could have just as easily been worded as, 'for every one level a spell is heightened it takes up an additional spell level slot.'
Another thing I dislike about the feat is that it only goes up to 9th level. An Epic character who takes Improved Spellcasting Capacity, would also have to take Epic Heighten Spell to take advantage of the 10th level+ slots. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
| |
|
Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 10:02 PM |
| | I give it to all casters in my home games as an inherent ability. Pumping more mojo into a spell is pumping more mojo, it isn't something so complex that it should be a feat AFAIC. | |
Support awesome games: Play Hecatomb!
8-Bit Chibi Goths forever!
Champion of Mephistopheles
"Sorry! I was tryin' to open these beans!"
My Have/Want List, (Updated July 6 2004, will be updated soon)
| |
|
nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| |
IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 03/19/2006 1:06 PM |
| My only problem with the feat is you need to prepare it as a
higher slot, and unless you know you are going to encounter
something where a heightened spell is necessary, it is almost
a waste.
Obviously there are exceptions, like fantasmal killer, etc.
I like giving it to spellcasters for free, although they still
need to memorize it that way.
Sorcerers on the other hand could use this feat a bit more. since
they are inhearantly more flexible with spell selection, adding
metamagics like heighten only make them more flexible.
I am babbling, ignore the man at behind the computer screen.
mark | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
IHawk's Have/Want List | IHawk's Trade List | Completed Trades - 214 | Pending Trades - 0
| |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/19/2006 5:31 PM |
| | I agree that the feat is of much more importance to a sorcerer than a wizard. I think it would be a great idea to give the feat for free to a sorcerer just because I cant imagine one wasting its very very few feats on Heighten Spell. Honestly I only think it would come up to use it a very few times. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|