| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
    
 | | 04/04/2006 4:06 AM |
| Just seeking some opinions here about how much DMs allow beginning PCs to know about the world. My last campaign was set in the Scarred Lands, and it was a fairly simple matter to prepare a "common knowledge" document, because the PCs were initially limited to a small geographic region (one nation). My new campaign, however, is set in Eberron, which means the entire main continent -- and conceivably beyond -- is fair game for exploration, even by low-level PCs.
So, assuming no relevant Knowledge skills, how much should the PCs know about the cosmology, the world, other continents, other nations, economic powerhouses (very important in Eberron), their home regions, magic and psionics, flora and fauna, and so on.
I don't want to dilute the value of Knowledge skills by providing too much, but (on the other hand and for example) I think a ranger from the Eldeen Reaches would know something about that great forest, even without relevant Knowledge skills. So the question is, how do I walk the line between giving too much away, and keeping PCs unrealistically ignorant? | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
| |
| 
Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1886 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 6:14 AM |
|
In terms of common knowledge, I think about 2-4 sentences on each important general topic is about what each character should have as a basic knowledge of the world.
To add to the topics you mentioned, I would probably include the warforged, the shifters, organized religions, and recent history (primarily the war).
Some characters might not have specific reasons to know even that much info, but they would have had to pick up at least the basics just by day to day interaction with other people. A warforged probably wasn't programmed to know about the three dragons, but after hearing an apocalyptic street preacher who wanders the slums go on and on about how the end of the world is coming (or alternatively, after being told to remove said preacher's spleen for sermonizing from a sky bridge within earshot of Lady Eladrin's window), the warforged will have the basic concept down.
In essence, it's information that's nearly impossible to escape. The information is so intertwined with the culture and daily life that anyone who doesn't already know it will have to pick it up to comprehend what is happening around them.
In addition to that, I would give each character a few paragraphs (maybe 5-6 sentences/concepts each) of general knowledge related to their backstory, race, or class. I would suggest incorporating each character's intelligence bonus into the amount of additional knowledge, but that might make me seem biased. [)] I was thinking maybe 1 + Int bonus paragraphs (minimum 2 topics) of information related to things from their past, although maybe if you decide to give all the characters the same number of "backstory" paragraphs, you could give one or two more bits of information in those paragraphs for characters with a higher Int.
For example, the spirit folk who washed up on the shore might get a paragraph with information about sea travel between the various continents for one of his "backstory" paragraphs. In the process of trying to figure out where he had ended up, he might have learned how much travel goes between each of the continents, the most frequented routes, and know which port cities could provide transport to particular destinations of interest.
A warforged employed by House Cannith might get a paragraph with more details of the organization of the house and its goals for one of his paragraphs. He might know about the general division of the house under the different leaders and which regions they control. Just from being around members of the house, he would probably have learned something about the kinds of things they can do with their dragonmarks, etc...
The ranger from the Eldeen Reaches might get a paragraph about the geography of that area, and specific dangers or flora or fauna he might have encountered. He would probably know which areas of the region are safer, and where there might be a hint of civilization. He might know the names and a little bit of info about other regions that border the Reaches.
You could pick one or two of the topics to give each player for their character, and then maybe ask them to pick one topic for themselves that represents one of their character's interests.
Then, for each rank a character has in a particular knowledge skill, I would give them one paragraph on that topic. I haven't implemented this in my campaign, but I like the idea of giving them one or two new paragraphs each time they gain a new rank.
I think these "knowledge" paragraphs (or even the "backstory" paragraphs can also be a good way to introduce information that might (or might not) be useful in future adventures. It might not always even be entirely correct, and maybe as the character gains more ranks, earlier information is clarified or contradicted, representing what they've learned on the topic or new information they've discovered during downtime.
If you already have an idea of some of the other adventures you might run, you can even include a hidden adventure hook or two, that the players might decide to investigate on their own later.
Just an idea [:)]
| | | |
|
jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 04/04/2006 8:25 AM |
| What players know vs what characters know can always be a trick subject.
A lot of it has to boil down to what the individual character's background is. If they were born in a particular region and raised their whole lives there they might have a deep level of knowledge about the area. If they moved away while they were 2 they would hardly know anything about their birth land.
Try to get your players to put some extra thought and detail into their origins. Where ever they are from they'd likely know a fair amount about, places they've traveled to a little bit about them, and everywhere else perhaps just the things that stand out most about that region if anything at all. | | | |
|
MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 9:34 AM |
| | Do any of the Knowledge skills cover this? Animal lore/creature lore or something along those lines. | |
John
| |
|
BigBC
Sergeant
620 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 9:55 AM |
| | Both of the DMs I currently play under give us Knowledge (Local) as a class skill and 4 ranks in it as a beginning character. This is because they both agree that it would be hard not to have knowledge about where you grow up, otherwise you wouldn't survive very long. This Knowledge (Local) ONLY applies to the immediate area you grew up, such as my warforged knows about a certain part of the Mournlands since he was created and trained there around the cataclysm. Our druid knows about the Eldeen Reaches since he grew up there, etc. To gain local knowledge about other areas we need to put other ranks into it and can only use them. | |
Complete: Ha, De, Ar, GoL, Ab, Dk, Af, Ud, WD, DQ, BW
Favorite Supplier
"Indecision may, or may not be my problem." - Jimmy Buffet
Champion of the Gibberling | |
|
MrWalrus
Sneak
76 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 5:58 PM |
| | The Player's Guide To Eberron actually has a lot of material regarding what PCs would know about specific areas/organizations/etc. Each entry in the book (it's set up like an encyclopedia) has a sidebar with Knowledge check DCs for various aspects of the entry, which is nice for things that aren't common knowledge but aren't hard to find out about if a PC applies themselves (ie. takes ranks in that appropriate knowledge skill). | |
| |
| 
jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 04/05/2006 7:31 PM |
| I think of things like this:
Knowledge can be broken down into 2 different categories: Common knowledge, and learned knowledge.
Common knowledge is stuff you pick up in every day life. If your PC's life intersects with something on a regular basis, he picks up common knowledge about it. Anyone living in a region has common knowledge about things that are common in that region. Any baker has common knowledge about things related to baking. If you grew up around a circus that had a pet manticore, you have common knowledge about manticores. PCs automatically know all common knowledge that it makes sense for them to know.
Learned knowledge is obscure material or foreign material. It won't come up in every day life for your PC. Your PC had to go outside of his normal life path to discover this information. An artic warrior would need to learn about monsters native to a jungle. A rich man would need to learn what the poor people do to entertain themselves. Etc...
It is a judgment call for the DM to determine what fits in which category. Just ask yourself - would the PC have had a good chance to find this out in his normal life? If not, then it requires a knowledge check to see if he knows it. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
| |
|
taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 8:05 PM |
| | I echo the praise for the Player's Guide to Eberron. It's spoiler free, covers all sorts of facets of the campaign setting you may not consider while drafting your own handout, and has those wonderful sidebars mentioned earlier. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
|
FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 04/10/2006 12:13 PM |
| The PHB does give some guidelines for knowledge checks. Look up pg 78. There's a lot of vague guidelines here, but a good general start.
Religion: undead
Nature: animals, plants, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, vermin
Arcana: constructs, dragons, magical beasts
Dungeoneering: Abberations, oozes
Planes: Outsiders, Elementals
My only problem with this is that if you don't have ranks in a knowledge type you know nothing about creatures listed in those knowledge areas.
| |
Completed trades: Gausse, Mazra, Pagansexy, Galerians, Lord_Raven, Drakkengi, Temujinn x2, Random Sasquatch, elf_ranger, Azuretide, Hung4treason, Griffrat (face2face), Nasamonkey
Carpe Forum! | |
|
thedip
Sergeant
737 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 4:53 PM |
| I tend to tell the players "knowable" facts about the country or world they come from. I just say "You would know......".
For example if the party was in a port it may be common knowledge that the main trade routes are between a number of foreign ports.
The only time I get the characters to roll is to obtain relatively obscure information. In this way I can keep the players knowledgable about their surroundings as well as helping the story along.
Cheers
Thedip | |
Have/Want List | References | Email Me
Pending: None
Failed Trades: Thayil(he has received) | |
|
Dordledum
Commander
3215 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/12/2006 4:23 PM |
| On the whole players know a lot (I am playing in Forgotten Realms), but their characters don't. They know the basics, but when it gets tricky and no knowledge skill deals with it, I let them roll an int or wis-check to see if they know the piece of information. Sometimes when a character does/say something, you just need to say: your character doesn't know that! Just the basics on preventing metagaming basically.
I got one player who tends to metagame a lot, not consciously but he does. Knowing the weaknesses of even the rarest of monsters and exploiting those by choosing the correct spells is a nice example. His character does not know those weaknesses!
just stay on top of it as DM and your palyers will respect you for it. adds to the roleplaying experience.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
|
thedip
Sergeant
737 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 4:50 PM |
| I often use monsters in a non statndard way. For example some of my trolls that are hurt by lightening rather than fire. This means that the meta gamers can get caught out.
Cheers
Thedip | |
Have/Want List | References | Email Me
Pending: None
Failed Trades: Thayil(he has received) | |
|
taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 6:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by FeranEldritchKnight
The PHB does give some guidelines for knowledge checks. Look up pg 78. There's a lot of vague guidelines here, but a good general start.
Religion: undead
Nature: animals, plants, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, vermin
Arcana: constructs, dragons, magical beasts
Dungeoneering: Abberations, oozes
Planes: Outsiders, Elementals
My only problem with this is that if you don't have ranks in a knowledge type you know nothing about creatures listed in those knowledge areas.
You can make untrained knowledge checks as long as the dc is 10 or lower. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |