LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
    
 | | 04/13/2006 10:53 PM |
| | Am I right in thinking the benefits of the items don't stack and the wearer don’t benefit from spells such as bull's strength or do the stacking rules only apply to spells and other spells? | |
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WotDQ Called Shot: Fang Dragon. | |
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lycusmike
Sneak
138 Posts
| | 04/13/2006 11:12 PM |
| | correct. Both are Enhancement bonuses. If the adjective is the same, the bonuses do not stack except for Dodge Bonuses, adjectiveless bonuses, and circumstance, but those can be tricky. | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 04/14/2006 12:56 PM |
| The gauntlets are +2 STR and worn on the wrists and the belt,say +4 STR and on one's belt
slot, I fail to see why the bonuses do not stack. Can someone explain please ? Power and Strenght are even different words...[xx(] | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 04/14/2006 1:05 PM |
| You can't go by the names of the magic items, in a lot of cases the names are more for flavor.
The belt and the gauntlets both are strength enhancement items and both are built using Bull's strength as the base spell. The same spell doesn't stack with itself.
There is no belt +2, so the gauntlets are the +2 and the belt the +4 and +6 progression that so many magic items have. | | | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 04/14/2006 1:18 PM |
| | Thanks guys, I do not like those rules though...Limits your capabilities a lot. Worse yet is the only one ring per hand...you have 10 fingers...only one per hand makes no common sense...[:(] | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/14/2006 1:23 PM |
| There's nothing prohibiting you from crafting a +2 Belt of Ogre's Strength (+2 is just too weeny to name "Giant"). It still wouldn't stack with the gauntlets (as people have pointed out like bonuses don't stack) it would just take up a different item slot.
If you really wanted two items to stack you could spend an incredible amount of money and make a Belt of Mental Might (+4 (32,000gp) or +6(72,000gp) insight/luck/sacred/or profane bonus to Strength). It's legal, it's expensive, it's also kind of silly but you could have two Strength enhancing items so long as the types of bonuses granted are different. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/14/2006 6:14 PM |
| | The one notable exception is that they stack when, and only when, you're using a Hammer of Thunderbolts. | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 04/14/2006 7:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sir Bozak The Damned
Thanks guys, I do not like those rules though...Limits your capabilities a lot. .[:(]
Just to giva an idea why they don't stack. lets say that they did stack. So you put on a belt and gaunlets. This gives you a plus six bonus to str. They you come up with the idea to craft boots of +2 str. (no reason you couldn't) the you follow with a hat of str, glasses of str etc etc etc. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12481 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 04/14/2006 7:33 PM |
| | For the oldtimers, I believe that these items did stack back in the days of AD&D? Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Girdle of Giant Strength. | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 04/14/2006 8:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
For the oldtimers, I believe that these items did stack back in the days of AD&D? Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Girdle of Giant Strength.
yep, in first edition the two stack in relation to throwing rocks and hurling warhammers. The Girdles let you throw rocks like the giant it was named after.
yes I am an oldtimer and still have my 1st edition DMG.  | | | |
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LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 1:39 AM |
| | Ok, so now that I have my question anwsered here is the situation. I had a lvl 6 cleric who died, I'm now going to begin to multiclass into a fighter, because the party needs some brute force and I think 6th lvl is a nice place to be for healing/buffing, but need a power boost. I have somewhere in the 15,000 range of spending money after I'm raised so I'm thinking of seeing if I could get my hands of gauntlets of orge power and a flame burst morningstar. Any feedback? | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6842 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 04/16/2006 2:51 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
... a flame burst morningstar. Any feedback?
I would much prefer having a flaming/ice morningstar (I may be using the wrong terms here). What I mean is having 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold damage. This, IMO, is far better than the burst effects, which cost +2 but only work on criticals. The reason I think the flaming/ice effect (where each enhancement costs +1 each) is superior is that criticals don't happen often enough. I'd rather be rolling 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold after every hit than only occassionally. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/16/2006 2:59 AM |
| +1 Flaming Burst Morning Star runs in the ballpark of 18308gp. Add in the gauntlets and you're looking at falling several thousand gold short of the purchase. Don't forget the restriction that all magic weapons must have a +1 enhancement bonus before you can add any other bonuses [:D]
You could easily get a +1 Flaming Morning Star (how often do you crit with a morning star anyway?) and Gauntlets of Ogre Power for 12308gp. That would even leave you some spending money (bag of holding, heward's handy haversack, pearls of power, or wands of cure spells all come to mind as good options).
Clerics make excellent backup fighters even without multiclassing (if you multiclass fighter take 4 levels (weapon specialization) then back to cleric levels. Higher-level cleric spells drastically outweigh fighting power (Implosion, Elemental Swarm, and High-level Righteous Might + Divine Favor are all incredibly beefy). | |
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LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 11:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
... a flame burst morningstar. Any feedback?
I would much prefer having a flaming/ice morningstar (I may be using the wrong terms here). What I mean is having 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold damage. This, IMO, is far better than the burst effects, which cost +2 but only work on criticals. The reason I think the flaming/ice effect (where each enhancement costs +1 each) is superior is that criticals don't happen often enough. I'd rather be rolling 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold after every hit than only occassionally.
Thats a great idea I hadn't even thought of that. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 2:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
... a flame burst morningstar. Any feedback?
I would much prefer having a flaming/ice morningstar (I may be using the wrong terms here). What I mean is having 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold damage. This, IMO, is far better than the burst effects, which cost +2 but only work on criticals. The reason I think the flaming/ice effect (where each enhancement costs +1 each) is superior is that criticals don't happen often enough. I'd rather be rolling 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold after every hit than only occassionally.
Thats a great idea I hadn't even thought of that.
Ill have to grab my book and double check, but burst items give the +1d6 AND add the burst I think.
EDIT: "A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a criticial hit."
Thats the quote, The burst effect costs +2 because you get the +1d6 and get burst to go with it. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/17/2006 2:00 AM |
| It's still more cost-effective to have two different energy types (i.e. flame and frost) than to have a burst weapon. +2d6 every swing is far more efficient than +1d6 every swing and +1d10 5% of the time.
Regardless, on the budget mentioned a +3 weapon is right out (must be at least +1 magic before adding an further enhancements) [:D] | |
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LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 2:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
It's still more cost-effective to have two different energy types (i.e. flame and frost) than to have a burst weapon. +2d6 every swing is far more efficient than +1d6 every swing and +1d10 5% of the time.
Regardless, on the budget mentioned a +3 weapon is right out (must be at least +1 magic before adding an further enhancements) [:D]
How would the costing work with a duel energy typed item, I'm assuming it's legal to have both powers active at the same time? | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/17/2006 2:23 AM |
| Cost works as follows:
+1 Enhancement bonus (mandatory to do anything else) = +1 bonus
+1 Frost = +1 bonus
+1 Flaming = +1 bonus
Total for a +1 Flaming Frost Weapon = +3 bonus
Cost is 18,300gp (plus the base cost of a weapon) for a +3 total bonus weapon.
Essentially you just add the level of enhancement to the combined level of bonuses to get the total bonus (not to exceed +10 [+5 enhancement and +5 other bonuses] until you reach Epic levels).
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 04/17/2006 12:41 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sir Bozak The Damned
Thanks guys, I do not like those rules though...Limits your capabilities a lot. Worse yet is the only one ring per hand...you have 10 fingers...only one per hand makes no common sense...[:(]
I don't always agree either but if same named bonuses did stack, 3.5 would be even more munckin than it already is.
You could wear the belts AND the gauntlets AND have a Bull's Str on you, etc, etc.........[xx(] Ugh! | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 1:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
For the oldtimers, I believe that these items did stack back in the days of AD&D? Gauntlets of Ogre Power and a Girdle of Giant Strength.
In the reallllly old rules... the Gauntlets of Ogre Power just automatically gave you an 18 00 strength and a belt of giant strength just gave you a certain strength. They were really only compatable together with certain magic items (Maul of the Titans comes to mind.)
But in this system... it is very much a game balance issue of only one enhancement bonus, one ring on each hand, one suit of armor, after all you should be able to wear magical leather then layer magical chainmail then layer magical plate mail on top of it. After all, that is how the armor was worn. It is all about balance. Once again seperateing into the two schools of thought... role playing and roll playing.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 1:20 PM |
| | Im order to make this whole issue even more confusing I forgot to mention that I already have a shock weapon to sell to help pay for the new one. | |
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WotDQ Called Shot: Fang Dragon. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/17/2006 1:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
Im order to make this whole issue even more confusing I forgot to mention that I already have a shock weapon to sell to help pay for the new one.
Considering that you'll only get half the shocking weapons value when selling it, have you thought about adding properties to the shocking weapon? Is it the same type of weapon.
In regards to the discussion about the bursting weapon vs. more 1d6 properties, I usually prefer the additional properties over a bursting weapon. The one benefit I see in a burst weapon is that it'll get through resistances a bit easier. A resistance of 5 pretty much negates the 1d6 effects. This happened to the ranger in my game. He has a bow with fire and shock on it, when facing Demons he went from top notch damage machine to the sidelines. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 3:27 PM |
| | Remember in the case of the flaming, frost weapon, you'll have to take a standard action to activate each ability, which can be inconvenient at times. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 3:32 PM |
| If in a good campaign... then a holy weapon can do alot better then a flaming / cold weapon for the same cost.
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LargeMarmot
Sergeant
463 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 3:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
If in a good campaign... then a holy weapon can do alot better then a flaming / cold weapon for the same cost.
Another nice option I hadn't thought of. I just spoke ot the DM and he said he would give me 4000 for the +1 shocking morningstar I already have leaving me with about 13000 after the cost he worked out for us to get resurected. I'm guessing burst or holy weapons are out... | |
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WotDQ Called Shot: Fang Dragon. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/18/2006 11:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Remember in the case of the flaming, frost weapon, you'll have to take a standard action to activate each ability, which can be inconvenient at times.
That's only if the weapon was commanded to cease functioning, which should be a rare occurance. | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 04/18/2006 2:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Remember in the case of the flaming, frost weapon, you'll have to take a standard action to activate each ability, which can be inconvenient at times.
That's only if the weapon was commanded to cease functioning, which should be a rare occurance.
Would it really be? I mean do you never sheath your sword?
I must admit I hadn't thought of the duel activation when reading this thread before. Not sure if I was running the game if I would make it single activation. Something to think about. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/18/2006 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by reezel
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Remember in the case of the flaming, frost weapon, you'll have to take a standard action to activate each ability, which can be inconvenient at times.
That's only if the weapon was commanded to cease functioning, which should be a rare occurance.
Would it really be? I mean do you never sheath your sword?
I must admit I hadn't thought of the duel activation when reading this thread before. Not sure if I was running the game if I would make it single activation. Something to think about.
I never viewed sheathing an energy weapon as a problem, maybe I should.
I think 2 rounds to activate a magic sword is too much, it seems to be punishing a character for having a cool weapon. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/18/2006 3:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
quote:
Originally posted by reezel
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Remember in the case of the flaming, frost weapon, you'll have to take a standard action to activate each ability, which can be inconvenient at times.
That's only if the weapon was commanded to cease functioning, which should be a rare occurance.
Would it really be? I mean do you never sheath your sword?
I must admit I hadn't thought of the duel activation when reading this thread before. Not sure if I was running the game if I would make it single activation. Something to think about.
I never viewed sheathing an energy weapon as a problem, maybe I should.
I think 2 rounds to activate a magic sword is too much, it seems to be punishing a character for having a cool weapon.
Well, the FAQ does suggest that weapons like that would probably be made so that all the abilities are activated with a single command - hadn't noticed that entry before.
In any case, all in all, I think holy is usually a better buy for your +2, since it will help with DR, is unaffected by energy resistances, requires no activation, etc. | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
855 Posts
| | 04/18/2006 4:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
quote:
Originally posted by LargeMarmot
... a flame burst morningstar. Any feedback?
I would much prefer having a flaming/ice morningstar (I may be using the wrong terms here). What I mean is having 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold damage. This, IMO, is far better than the burst effects, which cost +2 but only work on criticals. The reason I think the flaming/ice effect (where each enhancement costs +1 each) is superior is that criticals don't happen often enough. I'd rather be rolling 1d6 fire and 1d6 cold after every hit than only occassionally.
I always thought that the following from the SRD made flaming/ice weapons impossible, unless you put it on a weapon that has 2 heads:
quote:
4 Reroll if you get a duplicate special ability, an ability incompatible with an ability that you’ve already rolled, or if the extra ability puts you over the +10 limit. A weapon’s enhancement bonus and special ability bonus equivalents can’t total more than +10.
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 04/18/2006 4:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
I never viewed sheathing an energy weapon as a problem, maybe I should.
I think by the rules the second you let go of the weapon, the flaming/frost/whatever ends anyways. I don't have my book in front of me at the moment, but I thought that was the way it worked.
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
I think 2 rounds to activate a magic sword is too much, it seems to be punishing a character for having a cool weapon.
I thought about this one and decided if the weapon ONLY did all or nothing, I would make it a single command, but if they wanted to switch between the different energy types and shut one of at times I would require two seperate activations. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/18/2006 5:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
I always thought that the following from the SRD made flaming/ice weapons impossible, unless you put it on a weapon that has 2 heads:
quote:
4 Reroll if you get a duplicate special ability, an ability incompatible with an ability that you’ve already rolled, or if the extra ability puts you over the +10 limit. A weapon’s enhancement bonus and special ability bonus equivalents can’t total more than +10.
Flaming and frost are not incompatible abilities, though. The only things I can think of off the top of my head that would be holy and unholy or axiomatic and anarchic on the same weapon, although even that has been a matter of some debate on the ENWorld rules forum. | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/18/2006 5:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
I always thought that the following from the SRD made flaming/ice weapons impossible, unless you put it on a weapon that has 2 heads:
quote:
4 Reroll if you get a duplicate special ability, an ability incompatible with an ability that you’ve already rolled, or if the extra ability puts you over the +10 limit. A weapon’s enhancement bonus and special ability bonus equivalents can’t total more than +10.
What would indicate the impossibility? Flaming and Frost are not duplicate abilities and neither are incompatible with the other. Incompatibility here refers to getting a ranged-only ability for a melee weapon or vice versa.
It seems that if you want a Flaming/Frosting weapon you just need a single-activation for both energy types. If you wanted to be able to independently activate those energy types (having it Flaming OR Frosting OR both Flaming and Frosting) you'd have to have two activations by the rules.
I've always house-ruled activating a magic weapon (flaming, frost, shock, etc) as a swift action to speed up combat. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/19/2006 10:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by reezel
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
I never viewed sheathing an energy weapon as a problem, maybe I should.
I think by the rules the second you let go of the weapon, the flaming/frost/whatever ends anyways. I don't have my book in front of me at the moment, but I thought that was the way it worked.
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
I think 2 rounds to activate a magic sword is too much, it seems to be punishing a character for having a cool weapon.
I thought about this one and decided if the weapon ONLY did all or nothing, I would make it a single command, but if they wanted to switch between the different energy types and shut one of at times I would require two seperate activations.
Good points. I'll have to think about this. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 04/19/2006 10:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by reezel
I thought about this one and decided if the weapon ONLY did all or nothing, I would make it a single command, but if they wanted to switch between the different energy types and shut one of at times I would require two seperate activations.
That sounds sensible. I agree. Hmmm, where to get a flaming/Frost weapon in your Age O Worms game. Hmmmmmm | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 04/19/2006 11:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by reezel
I thought about this one and decided if the weapon ONLY did all or nothing, I would make it a single command, but if they wanted to switch between the different energy types and shut one of at times I would require two seperate activations.
That sounds sensible. I agree. Hmmm, where to get a flaming/Frost weapon in your Age O Worms game. Hmmmmmm
The most likely place you are to find one in my game will be as it slices inot the fleshy meat of your new character. | |
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The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 04/19/2006 11:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by reezel
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by reezel
I thought about this one and decided if the weapon ONLY did all or nothing, I would make it a single command, but if they wanted to switch between the different energy types and shut one of at times I would require two seperate activations.
That sounds sensible. I agree. Hmmm, where to get a flaming/Frost weapon in your Age O Worms game. Hmmmmmm
The most likely place you are to find one in my game will be as it slices inot the fleshy meat of your new character.
I was afraid of that. I know a certain shifter that's even more likely to take that blow. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Fearfrost
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 04/19/2006 9:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sir Bozak The Damned
Thanks guys, I do not like those rules though...Limits your capabilities a lot. Worse yet is the only one ring per hand...you have 10 fingers...only one per hand makes no common sense...[:(]
I remember back in the day they tried to explain that the rings would interfere with each other if they were that close. On a practical side it is just a balance mechanism. it forces you to decide which rings you really need as opposed to just collecting the first 20 you find. | |
Asystole is a stable heart rhythm | |
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