kestrel.ca
Underboss
1687 Posts
    
 | | 05/03/2006 5:16 PM |
| It looks like we'll be getting a 3.5e conversion of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks (my 2nd most favourite S-series, after Caverns of Tsojcanth).
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20060501a | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|
taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 5:43 PM |
| | Ugh. I tried to forget alien technology and weaponry were introduced to Greyhawk. Not a fan. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
|
Kelemvor
Warrior
223 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 6:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by taliesin
Ugh. I tried to forget alien technology and weaponry were introduced to Greyhawk. Not a fan.
Totally agree. Keep the Sci-fi and medieval fantasy seperate!
I was hoping these Greyhawk modules were lost forever. I nearly forgot about them, and now they are resurrecting a bad idea.
This is NOT a Chocolate in the Peanutbutter kind of thing.
SCI-FI and Dragons and Dungeons DO NOT GO GOOD TOGETHER!!
If a GM wants to put futuristic stuff in his campaign, fine for him and his players, but I won't be playing that campaign. If they want to put Giant Killer Tomoatoes, or Teletubbies of Doom in their campaigns, whatever... I won't be playing in that campaign.
Never understood why they eventually have to ruin every setting with futuristic crap. Dragonlance had robot arms, and futuristic gnome inventions. Forgotten Realms had the off-shoot to Spelljjammer junk.
Greyhawk has this Barrier peaks alien stuff. Ebberron has warforged, and whatever else coming, who knows.... laser beams on their freakin heads!!
I mean do I have to go all the way back to Hollow-world or Mystara to get that ancient feeling without a speck or a hint of future tech??? Or is that ruined already and I didn't get the memo?
I mean can't we keep the future/medieval/steam-punk junk to ONE SETTING? Pick a setting... but just 1!
Does every setting have to be tainted with futuristic crapola?
Let us leave some settings ancient and mystical.
Lets forget the sins of the past and make the ancient settings the settings of legend. Bury the mistakes. Don't ressurect them!
Of course people will say, "well just don't use that module".
Fine your right, and I won't be buying it. (big surprise I know)
But I think my point still stands.
A blended D&D and Future tech setting only deserves ONE SETTING.
/sigh ok im done.
//I give up....
| |
Champion of ... Solamnic Knight on Silver Dragon
Completed Maxminis Trades = nystul69(1), ihawk(1), gausse(2), smilinirish(1), Ben Webster(1), thom(1), Gunthar(1), Halofurry(1), Anthraxus(1), Dr.Cornelius(1), me_is_fred(1), ksarchet(1), tirwin(1), Sirohk(1)
| |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 6:24 PM |
| You especially don't have to buy it, considering it is free. [)]
I actually don't mind the original at all. The sci-fi items have a limited duration of usefulness built in so it isn't like the game will be overwhelmed with technology forever if you run it.
As for Hollow World/Mystara/Blackmoor, that is probably the most anachronistic setting ever, so I'd say yeah, you missed the memo. The whole "origin myth" of the setting is more or less a nuclear holocaust. Check out also DA2 and DA3 for the Blackmoor version of Barrier Peaks, or the original Hollow World campaign setting for the Blacklore elves ("tech" elves, in other words.)
There's other stuff scattered throughout the various Gazetteers as well. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 7:03 PM |
| I'm quite happy about this. BTW, check the dungeon maps - some of the wall spell "EGG".
Despite the sci-fi nature of the adventure, it doesn't actually change the campaign world. The devices can't be reproduced - and appear quite magical besides.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 7:12 PM |
| I loved playing barrier peaks and running it later.
However I agree high tech shouldn't be in fantasy D&D fortunatly most of the devices were single or limited use and had a tendancy to break down, but if it bothers you do what they did in the KOTDT the tech runs off a beamed power source within the ship so will only work in close proximity (a few miles) and if the ship is destroyed the weapons won't function at all. | | | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 11:57 PM |
| The thing that really gets me is that battery life, bullets, etc. are really very similar to charges that a normal magical item might carry. Not to mention that any technology, sufficiently advanced, appears as magic to those not familiar with it.
But those are other issues.
I'm very happy to hear about Caves and Expedition. Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain have been VERY lonely in that binder I've got them in. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/04/2006 12:18 AM |
| | I have no problem with this, I'm excited for some cool updates. I'm still a skeptic on eberron, just because I don't think Magic would encourage advances in the way they made them (planes, trains and Automobiles). But to each his own. Warforged are a cool idea I've used long before. PC Golem (Gore-bot. yes, that Gore. Think about it, it makes sense. Even had his own theme song) | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/04/2006 10:07 AM |
| I'm torn
Updating to 3.5 old 1st Ed modules - GOOD!
Choosing Expedition to the Barrier Peaks - Not so good!
I'd much rather see........
Dwellers of the Forbidden city
Lost Temple of Tharizdun
Baltron's Beacon
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 05/04/2006 11:44 AM |
| Im not familiar with this old adventure...It deals with aliens and spaceships???
It says it uses d20 Future? Is that book required to run it? | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
|
Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 12:12 PM |
| I kind of have a soft spot for Barrier Peaks... it was the first adventure that I ever played in. Most people that have posted in favor of this adventure and I have to agree, the tech part really has a limited run, a laser pistol with 20 charges is not as good as a wand of lighting with 20 charges (except that a fighter can use the pistol.) It actually has some disadvantages... chance of shooting yourself in the face, a -4 to hit (nonproficient weapon) unless you spend a feat to learn how to use them.
The expedidtion to barrier peaks is an adventure where a party goes to investigate some ruins that turn out to be an ancient crashed space ship. Some of the robots and tech still work, but most of it is trashed and useless. It has been entirely too long sine I looked at it to remember anything about the aliens who originally manned it.
| |
"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
| |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 12:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kelemvor
Totally agree. Keep the Sci-fi and medieval fantasy seperate!
This is NOT a Chocolate in the Peanutbutter kind of thing.
SCI-FI and Dragons and Dungeons DO NOT GO GOOD TOGETHER!!
I agree, so long as this rule then also is applied to prehistoric creatures such as dinosurs which have evne less of a place in D&D and psuedo-medieval fanatsy. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 2:43 PM |
| Man, you guys need to chill out! Have you actually READ the module? As Merric states, you can't reproduce the stuff, and once the "charges" are expended, your all done. A good DM plays up the strangeness of the magic in the metal building...
The ship itself can be well incorporated into Greyhawk as well. With the Suel and Baklunish preventing east/west migration, and the Flan being the principal people in the Flanaess, where exactly DID the Oeridian's come from? Just how old is that SPace ship...
I look forward to the release...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
Kelemvor
Warrior
223 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 4:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
Man, you guys need to chill out! Have you actually READ the module? As Merric states, you can't reproduce the stuff, and once the "charges" are expended, your all done. A good DM plays up the strangeness of the magic in the metal building...
The ship itself can be well incorporated into Greyhawk as well. With the Suel and Baklunish preventing east/west migration, and the Flan being the principal people in the Flanaess, where exactly DID the Oeridian's come from? Just how old is that SPace ship...
I look forward to the release...
Pat E
Well I guess I can just ignore it.
Can't be too upset I guess, since it's going to be free.
I haven't read it, but it sounds like a great plot for a SCi-FI setting, or a mixed setting.
The way you explain it... how the ship maybe having something to do with the origin of a race on Greyhawk... just makes it worse in my opinion.
Now its not just a random encounter, but a deep part of the history of Greyhawk?
To me it just ruins the aura of mystery of the whole setting when the origins of your ancient world is just a space-race's crash landing. Suddenly the whole universe is Sci-fi and your just playing in a primitive world that hasn't gotten their spaceships and lasers yet. Do you see what I'm getting at?
The wholeness of the game universe changes completely. Suddenly your Players want to explore space and find out where this ship came from.
The original Greyhawk world suddenly becomes cavemen with sticks and metal pokey things compared to what the rest of the universe might hold. You have effecively made the original game world insignificant.
It takes the mystery away, and FAST!
I will make an ammendment to my request.
And I think this is a very fair request.
Instead of only making one setting a "mixed sci-fi medieval setting".
How about you leave JUST ONE SETTING without weird sci-fi, for the purists.
Or, maybe we could make a NEW setting that is restricted to medieval ways only, no exceptions?
I don't think I am asking too much, considering this is a medieval game.
Why is this concept so hard to keep pure?
Lord of the Rings is freakin awesome because there's not a hint of Sci-fi anywhere. But then... imagine in the 2 Towers movie they find a laser gun, or even a smith and wesson in the bushes. Suddenly the whole world falls apart. LAME!
| |
Champion of ... Solamnic Knight on Silver Dragon
Completed Maxminis Trades = nystul69(1), ihawk(1), gausse(2), smilinirish(1), Ben Webster(1), thom(1), Gunthar(1), Halofurry(1), Anthraxus(1), Dr.Cornelius(1), me_is_fred(1), ksarchet(1), tirwin(1), Sirohk(1)
| |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 4:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kelemvor
quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
Man, you guys need to chill out! Have you actually READ the module? As Merric states, you can't reproduce the stuff, and once the "charges" are expended, your all done. A good DM plays up the strangeness of the magic in the metal building...
The ship itself can be well incorporated into Greyhawk as well. With the Suel and Baklunish preventing east/west migration, and the Flan being the principal people in the Flanaess, where exactly DID the Oeridian's come from? Just how old is that SPace ship...
I look forward to the release...
Pat E
Well I guess I can just ignore it.
Can't be too upset I guess, since it's going to be free.
I haven't read it, but it sounds like a great plot for a SCi-FI setting, or a mixed setting.
The way you explain it... how the ship maybe having something to do with the origin of a race on Greyhawk... just makes it worse in my opinion.
Now its not just a random encounter, but a deep part of the history of Greyhawk?
To me it just ruins the aura of mystery of the whole setting when the origins of your ancient world is just a space-race's crash landing. Suddenly the whole universe is Sci-fi and your just playing in a primitive world that hasn't gotten their spaceships and lasers yet. Do you see what I'm getting at?
The wholeness of the game universe changes completely. Suddenly your Players want to explore space and find out where this ship came from.
The original Greyhawk world suddenly becomes cavemen with sticks and metal pokey things compared to what the rest of the universe might hold. You have effecively made the original game world insignificant.
It takes the mystery away, and FAST!
I will make an ammendment to my request.
And I think this is a very fair request.
Instead of only making one setting a "mixed sci-fi medieval setting".
How about you leave JUST ONE SETTING without weird sci-fi, for the purists.
Or, maybe we could make a NEW setting that is restricted to medieval ways only, no exceptions?
I don't think I am asking too much, considering this is a medieval game.
Why is this concept so hard to keep pure?
Lord of the Rings is freakin awesome because there's not a hint of Sci-fi anywhere. But then... imagine in the 2 Towers movie they find a laser gun, or even a smith and wesson in the bushes. Suddenly the whole world falls apart. LAME!
You have every right to your opinion, and of course, no one will ever force you to run any specific module.
But your not understanding the history of the game. Myrlund, the Demi-god in Greyhawk is well known for walking around with his strange six-shooter wands.
The expedition to the Barrier Peaks was published more than 20 years ago. I've never read an account where the "wonder" of the fantasy setting was irrevocably upset by the use of S3, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
Every game world has a cosmology. I despise Spelljammer, but I assume in my world that there are other plants. Why can't tech levels be different in different lcoations. The wonderful thing about Greyhawk is that there aren't 60 25th Level Wizards haning out in the local taverns who can jet off to another world on a moments notice. So for Greyhawk, having this one event where a "tribe" of humans is introduced works. Frankly, the explanations for why the Flan were so dominated so quickly by the Oeridian's, whom eventually took over about 75% of the Flanaess makes sense if they arrived with great powers,w hich, as the tech was expeneded could not be replaced... Leave it at that, no need to plant other artifacts... you ARE teh DM after all!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 5:18 PM |
|
Also I think it should be kept in mind that Pat's theory about the origin of the Oeridians is just that, a theory. It most certainly is never spelled out in canon that way, and it doesn't really work for me.
The canonical origin of the Oeridian tribes would be from Ull, as per the original WG box set.
I've always been bothered a lot more by Murlynd than I ever was by EttBP, for some reason. I think part of it is his name, which sounds way too much like Merlin when you say it out loud. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 05/04/2006 5:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Also I think it should be kept in mind that Pat's theory about the origin of the Oeridians is just that, a theory. It most certainly is never spelled out in canon that way, and it doesn't really work for me.
The canonical origin of the Oeridian tribes would be from Ull, as per the original WG box set.
I've always been bothered a lot more by Murlynd than I ever was by EttBP, for some reason. I think part of it is his name, which sounds way too much like Merlin when you say it out loud.
Alot of people think that life on earth originated in outer space... There is still the whole "missing link" in the evolution of man. Plus who knows if that first spark of life didn't fall to earth from a passing comet or get left in the boot print of a tourist from another planet billions of years ago.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
| |
"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
| |
|
Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/04/2006 9:52 PM |
| I've read posts by EGG and RJK where they've been depressed at how many gamers don't see the wonder in importing sci-fi concepts to brighten up a fantasy adventure.
(It has a long history - check out Temple of the Frog, in D&D Supplement II: Blackmoor).
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
|
Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/05/2006 12:26 AM |
| It's fantasy, and the RPG police won't serve you a cease & desist for ignoring it. Sheesh. I can understand not liking it, but not the vehemence.
| |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
|
Frederyck
Sneak
139 Posts
Uppsala, Sweden
| | 05/05/2006 8:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave BeerNot to mention that any technology, sufficiently advanced, appears as magic to those not familiar with it.
This is a wonderful quote by Arthur C. Clarke "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" (his third law of prediction). I love his stuff!
And to stay on topic, I for one am looking forward to the Barrier Peaks alot. I probably won't ever play/DM it, though... [:)] | |
If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. | |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 05/05/2006 8:57 AM |
| I cant wait till its up on the site..they say Friday so any minute now.
They are callin git a D&D/d20 Modern crossover...I hope I dont need d20 Modern books. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/05/2006 10:30 AM |
| For me, the whole idea of Barrier Peaks containing sci-fi elements is not the issue. I just wouldn't have picked this one for a conversion/update, that's all. It's never been one of my favorites.
I think there are better choices. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
|
kestrel.ca
Underboss
1687 Posts
| | 05/05/2006 12:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
I kind of have a soft spot for Barrier Peaks... it was the first adventure that I ever played in. Most people that have posted in favor of this adventure and I have to agree, the tech part really has a limited run, a laser pistol with 20 charges is not as good as a wand of lighting with 20 charges (except that a fighter can use the pistol.) It actually has some disadvantages... chance of shooting yourself in the face, a -4 to hit (nonproficient weapon) unless you spend a feat to learn how to use them.
Not to mention you have to figure out how to use the stuff in the first place. (There was a whole flow-chart used to determine how well you figure out the new tech.) I remember my paladin disintegrating himself with a blaster rifle. Man, was I choked. I think the DM even stole the character sheet from me. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|
orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 05/05/2006 12:26 PM |
| I never was into buying a pre-made world.
Have always used generic source books and created my own world.
I understand some people like to buy campaign seatings because of the time savings and professional quality of the product.
It seams to me however, if your going buy campaign specfic supplements then your buying someone eles world. So it seams likly there will be stuff in there that you don't like. It doesn't matter is it is advanced tech or nomadic halflings.
There is no law that says you have to use everything that published or that you can't change things you don't like.
What I can't understand at all, is that when someone finds something that doesn't suit them in a campaign world created by others they become so offended. some of the post in this tread sound quite silly.
I am just waiting for the call to burn all greyhawk books and declare it a dead seeting because it has been tainted by this evil moduale.
Edit: After reading a little deeper in the tread I realize that it is primarly from one poster only.
| |
Yes I am Gelatinous.
www.gelatinousdudes.com
| |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 05/05/2006 3:18 PM |
| | I actually had an idea for a setting wherein it turned out that all the sentient races (apart from a single sentient native race) and monsters were of alien origin and the "gods" of the world were actually the names of the ships that brought them there. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| |
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/05/2006 11:37 PM |
| Whaa-aat?
Only an "how-to"?! Did I miss a link somewhere? Please tell me I did! I mean, no fair (although what do I expect for "free"?)!
[v] I guess that'll learn me to get my hopes up. First, I go to two crappy places looking for old Chainmail, and get nothing. Then I get a "how to"... *sigh* | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 05/06/2006 7:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
Whaa-aat?
Only an "how-to"?! Did I miss a link somewhere? Please tell me I did! I mean, no fair (although what do I expect for "free"?)!
[v] I guess that'll learn me to get my hopes up. First, I go to two crappy places looking for old Chainmail, and get nothing. Then I get a "how to"... *sigh*
HOW TO convert the modual?
Umm....Crap. Man WotC is out to dissapoint me these days :( | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/06/2006 4:33 PM |
| Amen to that, Count.
Looking forward to Barrier Peaks helped get me though the work day, and then I get a "how to".
I guess my hopes were just too high, but only because WotC set the bar there with White Plume Mountain and Tomb of Horrors. Still, maybe something is in the works. That's my only hope right now. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
kestrel.ca
Underboss
1687 Posts
| | 05/06/2006 5:13 PM |
| Grrr. How to?! That's just not fun.
I know I tried converting S4 (Caverns of Tsojcanth) and it was a disaster. Learned lots about converting though. Hoping they'll eventually do a decent conversion of it for us. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|