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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
    
UK
 | | 05/07/2006 8:51 AM |
| A short while ago, my players' characters killed a medium-sized blue dragon. The players decided they should have their characters drag the corpse back to the nearby town to try to sell it - reasoning that it must have some intrinsic value, if not for spell components, then perhaps as armour.
That left me with a bit of a problem. IIRC, 1e was fairly explicit about body-parts having use as spell components. I can't find anything in 3e, though. But I didn't just want to say to the players that it didn't have any value at all. The fight was a difficult one, and the corpse represented a real 'prize' which they wanted to benefit from. It was small enough for it to be reasonable for the characters to drag it back to the town. What they were trying to do seemed 'reasonable'.
In the end, I came up with some notional (but not excessive) sum of money which a mage paid them, and had the townsfolk express their gratitude and awe [)]. However, I didn't feel that the situation ended very satisfactorily - but at the same time I didn't want to start a trend of the characters dragging around corpses for cash.
I'd be interested to know how other DMs would have handled that situation. Any suggestions? | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 05/07/2006 9:19 AM |
| With a quick search of the SRD I found the following:
Mnemonic Enhancer
Transmutation
Level: Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting this spell allows you to prepare additional spells or retain spells recently cast. Pick one of these two versions when the spell is cast.
Prepare
You prepare up to three additional levels of spells. A cantrip counts as ½ level for this purpose. You prepare and cast these spells normally.
Retain
You retain any spell of 3rd level or lower that you had cast up to 1 round before you started casting the mnemonic enhancer. This restores the previously cast spell to your mind.
In either event, the spell or spells prepared or retained fade after 24 hours (if not cast).
Material Component
A piece of string, and ink consisting of squid secretion with black dragon’s blood.
Focus
An ivory plaque of at least 50 gp value.
That was the only SRD spell where dragon's blood of any kind showed up. I would expect that spells from the Draconomicon and Spell Compendium would have additional examples of dragon materials used as spell components. There has to be rules somewhere for fashioning dragonhide into armor.
I would have ruled roughly the same as you. It wasn't a very large/old dragon and so the hide probably had limited usefulness as armor material (dragon natural armor gets better with age). I would think that in general there has to be many uses a wizard would have for a dragon carcass. Besides "canon" spells found in accepted gaming materials my fantasy world has plenty of room for "other" spells that might exist in the world but the PCs never see them in action (and so don't need rules for how they work) but nevertheless some NPCs know they exist and would love to get their hands on the requisite dragon material components. I would probably value a medium-sized blue dragon in the neighborhood of 1000-2000gp depending on the situation. NPC wizards in larger cities probably have more access to knowledge of the spells and secondary buyers interested in the components so the price would be higher there. | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 05/07/2006 9:31 AM |
| The role of specific monster parts was greatly reduced in the new edition. I assume it is for simplicity. When my players defeat monsters they are usually describing to me the parts that they cut from them and keep in their spell components pouches. It has no effect on the game but make the fantasy world feel better. I, on the other hand, am not making them follow every tiny bit of focus needed for a spell. (Costy diamonds and such are obviously use but if you need a little archery target I will not mention it whenever you cast a spell). Further more when there are real valuables such as hides (dragon or otherwise) and they carry them I allow them to make armor from it (with the help of an armorsmith, naturally).
Finally, there are some spells with unusal componennts in the Book of Vile Darkness and in the Book of Exalted Deeds. | |
Champion of Cockatrices.
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1687 Posts
| | 05/07/2006 10:41 AM |
| I'm 90% certain there was a Dragon article that gave prices for dragon parts. I just looked through the back issues I have (which is not a complete set) and I couldn't find it, but I'm sure it was in there. (Probably within the last 2 years.)
Hopefully someone will remember... | |
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 05/07/2006 11:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kestrel.ca
I'm 90% certain there was a Dragon article that gave prices for dragon parts. I just looked through the back issues I have (which is not a complete set) and I couldn't find it, but I'm sure it was in there. (Probably within the last 2 years.)
Hopefully someone will remember...
Ofcourse. I should have thought of it all by myself.
Issue 332, June 2005. On the cover there's a "101 uses for a dead dragon" slogan, and inside, page 48 holds an article called "Cutting up the dragon". It's good reading. (and that issue have the ecology of the kobold so if you don't have it, get it). | |
Champion of Cockatrices.
I wish I never wished a wand of wishing. (Wishful thinking.)
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 05/07/2006 11:28 AM |
| Wow a dragon corpse...that is the mother load for uses.
I have always been rather nice to the players when they
defeat tougher opponents, especially dragons. I almost never
have them fight these greater beasts unless it is an
unbalanced CR in the monsters favor...no cakewalk encounters
for them. It helps me burn through PC's resources, and
abilities, while making it much more of a tense battle.
the rewards are much more worth it then. additional rewards
gained from a dragon.
Obviously its hide, the DMG gives specific reference on how
much armor / shields can be fashioned from a specific sized dragon.
Dragon teeth - mythicalological refrences claim that planting dragons
teeth "grows" a skeletal army. I have adapted this to allow the
PC's to remove dragons teeth (Knowledge Arcana, Heal, Knowledge
Nature checks to be albe to remove teeth whole - be creative). Once
harvested, you plant them and in a week you get skeletons. Hit dice
are based off of size of teeth, size of dragon, etc. Controlling the
skeletons is the PC's problem. This can be great fun.
Dragons Blood. there was an awesome subchapter in Unearthed Arcana
for a variant of metamagic components which allows the caster to use
an expensive, rare spell component to apply metamagic effect, in
lieu of the feat and higher spell slot. This could be applied to
alchemically treated Dragons Blood for use in the empowering or
maxmizing of specific elemental based spells based on the dragons type.
Other items - there are plenty of magic items in the Draconomicon
as well as other sources that allow the use of hides and such to make
other wondrous items...these are very awesome applications of corpses
for treasure. This can be used for plenty of other monsters too,
displacement cloak from a DB, tons of itmes from Libris Mortis from
undead parts (my favorite is the bodak's eye!).
The Dragon Stone - (my favorite) in my game, dragons are a bit more special
than most all other creatures. Each dragon possesses within its heart a
stone which holds much of its power. once harvested, the carrier of
the stone gains some of these benefits. An example, the stone from
a Huge (adult) green dragon would grant the bearer Acid resistance 10,
water breathing (1/week), suggestion (1/week), dragons breath (as per
the spell 1/week). Each of the spell-like abilies granted can be used
only if the weilder holds the stone in its hand. The caster level would
be the Hit dice of the bearer. There are drawback to carrying a stone
and they are not slight...dragons can sense other dragonstones based
off of thier frightful presesnce range (30' x age category) and they
are not kind to those who are dragon slayers. Also, killing a dragon
is not something that is easy to hide. There are many folks who would
love to get there hands on a stone for themselves, so it makes the PC
a target, where otherwise they would not be.
Just some thoughts. I would suggest, being creative...PC's have
often been appreciative of the additional rewards.
mark | |
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 05/07/2006 1:16 PM |
| The AEG "Dragons" sourcebook has a fairly complete Dragon Alchemy section, covering almost every body part you can think of. Basically, using an appropriate part from a dragon of this size will grant a +1 bonus (to armor/weapon bonus, caster level) to a magic item which incorporates it. Other uses are possible too-the book mentions that an entire dragon horn can be used to create a Ring of the Ram with unlimited charges, that can be used five times per day. Drain the eyes and make a crystal ball. Use the ligaments to make bowstrings with the Shocking quality. Turn a lung into a Censer of Controlling Air Elementals. And so one and so forth.
About the teeth--a long time ago (somewhere around issue 100, I believe), Dragon magazine had an article describing the (classed) warriors who would spring up when properly harvested Dragon teeth were sown. I don't recall if the sower received any special power over the warriors (who match the alignment of their dragon), but if not, your party could be in for some trouble if the teeth aren't destroyed. [:)] | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 05/08/2006 7:11 AM |
| Wow! Thanks guys!
I was just expecting a few ideas on how to handle the situation without the players ending up dragging too many corpses around. These have been much more useful and will be fun to use! | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
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BigBC
Sergeant
620 Posts
| | 05/08/2006 2:20 PM |
| | If you have the 'Arms and Equipment Guide' (3.0), page 40 has a list of additional trade goods and the prices for them. Included in the list are prices for furs and hides by the beast type (common, unusual, rare, exotic, monstrous). This could work for you if they want to start bringing other beast hides into town to make a profit. If you're going to let them do that though, you would probably want them to make checks like Profession (hunter) or some such to take the hides intact. A failed check means they ruined the hide and it can't be salvaged. | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2017 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 05/08/2006 9:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IHawk
The Dragon Stone - (my favorite) in my game, dragons are a bit more special than most all other creatures. Each dragon possesses within its heart a stone which holds much of its power. once harvested, the carrier of the stone gains some of these benefits. An example, the stone from a Huge (adult) green dragon would grant the bearer Acid resistance 10, water breathing (1/week), suggestion (1/week), dragons breath (as per the spell 1/week). Each of the spell-like abilies granted can be used only if the weilder holds the stone in its hand. The caster level would be the Hit dice of the bearer. There are drawback to carrying a stone and they are not slight...dragons can sense other dragonstones based off of thier frightful presesnce range (30' x age category) and they are not kind to those who are dragon slayers. Also, killing a dragon is not something that is easy to hide. There are many folks who would love to get there hands on a stone for themselves, so it makes the PC a target, where otherwise they would not be.
mark
Are these from a RPG book or are they something you made up? | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/08/2006 9:56 PM |
| Assigning value to monster body parts beyond what may be in the MM entries is going to mess with baseline game balance.
If you do assign values to this stuff, I would make a commensurate reduction in the amount of real treasure given out, or you will end up giving out too much gold. | |
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 05/08/2006 10:10 PM |
| The dragon stone concept did come from somewhere...I don't
honestly remember where anymore. But what the stones specifically
do is more or less what i've come up with.
IanB
as for the "too much treasure" to an extent you are correct,
IF you are running a baseline game where characters are
created with a standard 25 point build system, etc. My games are
on the powerful side, where treasure does not often match the
risks that the PC's are set agains. Most of the additional
treasures that are spoken about do cost resources to harvest, and
do take time and skill to properly utilize (again rewarding PC's
for expanding thier backgrounds). I have had great success
in these sorts of benefits and have hardly had problems with
too much character wealth. But that is my experience, I am sure
there are others just as convincing from the other side of the
coin.
mark kelly - ihawk | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 05/08/2006 10:40 PM |
| I'd try to consult the old monster manual about established monsters, and use my imagination for some other parts.
Like Boneclaw fingers being great knives. | |
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notserious
Sneak
117 Posts
| | 05/12/2006 1:38 PM |
| | I have found that this is a great way to encourage non-combat skills and roleplay. There is suddenly more incentive to max out ranks in craft(hunter, or leatherworker) to take advantage of that dragonskin, or knowledge (or craft(alchemy), or profession(chirugeon)skills to know what would be useful. If PC's get a little silly with hauling EVERY carcass around, have the stinking corpses start to attract attention (a D&D version of "The Old Man and the Sea" suddenly comes to mind) - nothing would encourage the PC's to be more informed about what is useful or not useful than having to fight their way back to civilization lugging some huge, magical carcass only to learn it isn't worth anything. It can also set up interesting connundrums - some things are only valuable if fresh, if not cut up, if not bruised, if not burnt, etc. | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2017 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 05/13/2006 6:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IHawk
The dragon stone concept did come from somewhere...I don't honestly remember where anymore. But what the stones specifically do is more or less what i've come up with.
mark kelly - ihawk
When I was looking on the web about them I read a story that says they are in the middle of the dragons brain. Probebly will find quite a few different areas to find the stone if you do enough searching on the web. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
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